Thread: [TV] Loki

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  1. #101
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Sure it is. You have absolutely no grounds to claim otherwise.
    sure it is what? biology? rofl that is pure gold

    Again, literally every time you see Tom Hiddleston rather than a 12-foot blue-skinned Jotun, you're seeing shapeshifting. Explicitly being shown it.
    and every other shapeshifting seems like an illusion, and that is the point im making, and i want to see more of the actual shapeshifting, i even mentioned earlier i wanted to see more frost giant loki, but you are clouded by bias already, because what i mentioned earlier.

    You came stomping in here attacking "diversity" and bitching about gender fluidity.

    It's not like it was hard to spot.
    Attacking? haha, like i said, you see what you want to see.

  2. #102
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    sure it is what? biology? rofl that is pure gold
    You're the one arguing that magic can't affect/change biology, in the MCU.

    I'm pointing out you have no basis for that argument.


  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Also off topic but got me thinking is Odin half frost giant in the MCU?
    i don't think so, he is asgardian, and his father was what, bor?

    in the actual myth giants and gods are all intertwined and are more or less different clans of entities, by example, thor mother was a giant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You're the one arguing that magic can't affect/change biology, in the MCU.
    no, im talking about the actual myth, Loki, as far as we know in the mcu, didn't m8 with a horse.

  4. #104
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    no, im talking about the actual myth, Loki, as far as we know in the mcu, didn't m8 with a horse.
    And?

    What about that not being canon in the MCU means that Loki is not gender fluid or is incapable of being a woman?


  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And?

    What about that not being canon in the MCU means that Loki is not gender fluid or is incapable of being a woman?
    who said he is not? lol, my dude, i said several times that the villain is Lady loki(at least i want to), exactly because he is fluid and can be a woman too, you are rly clouded.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2021-06-12 at 10:00 PM.

  6. #106
    I dont remember the last time i was so......amazed by a first episode of a series.
    Dont think i was this immersed on "The Boys" first episode.

    This one is promissing

  7. #107
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    who said he is not? lol, my dude, i said several times that the villain is Lady loki(at least i want to), exactly because he is fluid and can be a woman too, you are rly clouded.
    I am going to side with Endus here because you literally complained the gender fluid thing was a "twitter trope" in a post. While you did state you feel the villain is "Lady Loki." Your later points seem to suggest you have a problem with the gender fluid thing.

    However, this is definitely reaching into dangerous topic and likely forbidden. So, if you reply to me, I will not dance with you.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    I am going to side with Endus here because you literally complained the gender fluid thing was a "twitter trope" in a post. While you did state you feel the villain is "Lady Loki." Your later points seem to suggest you have a problem with the gender fluid thing.

    However, this is definitely reaching into dangerous topic and likely forbidden. So, if you reply to me, I will not dance with you.
    Just because i stated one thing, they "they", use those thing to gain points, don't mean i am against it, in general or in this case

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by rayvio View Post
    they seem to have been very careful to keep a kind of 'one-way cannon' where Agents and Defenders shows refer to MCU events but never vice-versa. which is both clever and frustrating at the same time. as far as I'm aware the larger MCU hasn't ever contradicted anything from those shows either though so presumably they're still cannon but more 'optional'
    Feige was very clear back when Marvel TV was starting that no TV show would ever be required watching in order to understand the events in a movie, ergo 1-way canon, while the reverse was not true. The TV folks were very careful to color between the lines up to the end of AoS season 5. That's where there is a problem. S5 was originally planned as a series finale and to end shortly before AV3. Season 6 seemingly ignored AV3 which is a problem. however S7 which is set in the past is OK.

    The question though is, is it canon ? The answer is yes up thru S5 until and unless the movie people retcon something. The real question should be are the movie folks obligated to accept AoS as canon and that answer (imo) is no. That said there is very little in AoS that the movie folks would ever consider changing. The only thing like that imo is the Terrigen release. YMMV.
    Last edited by JDL49; 2021-06-14 at 02:06 AM.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by JDL49 View Post
    Feige was very clear back when Marvel TV was starting that no TV show would ever be required watching in order to understand the events in a movie, ergo 1-way canon, while the reverse was not true. The TV folks were very careful to color between the lines up to the end of AoS season 5. That's where there is a problem. S5 was originally planned as a series finale and to end shortly before AV3. Season 6 seemingly ignored AV3 which is a problem. however S7 which is set in the past is OK.

    The question though is, is it canon ? The answer is yes up thru S5 until and unless the movie people retcon something. The real question should be are the movie folks obligated to accept AoS as canon and that answer (imo) is no. That said there is very little in AoS that the movie folks would ever consider changing. The only thing like that imo is the Terrigen release. YMMV.
    I guess, but with these Disney+ series it’s clear you’ll have a deeper understanding of the future films than if you didn’t watch them.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    no, im talking about the actual myth, Loki, as far as we know in the mcu, didn't m8 with a horse.
    MCU Loki didn’t realize he was adopted until the first Thor movie, which means <1% of his life. Unless we’re to take it that his shock of being a frost giant in the movie was something else. Been some time since I saw Thor.

    OT: enjoyable first episode to set the stage. I just hope the stage is set and we go full steam ahead and not dilly-dally for an episode or two more.

    If “our” Loki is not a dangerous variant, I wonder what the hell kind of variant evil Loki is and from what point in time if canon Loki dies in Infinity War. Lady Loki would be fun, but who is worthy to act alongside Hiddleston? I’ve not seen much in the way of casting leaks so I’ll put Lady Loki as a hope.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by SavoirFaire View Post
    MCU Loki didn’t realize he was adopted until the first Thor movie, which means <1% of his life. Unless we’re to take it that his shock of being a frost giant in the movie was something else. Been some time since I saw Thor.
    the point is original and mcu are so much different that you will can count on your fingers their similarities.

    If “our” Loki is not a dangerous variant, I wonder what the hell kind of variant evil Loki is and from what point in time if canon Loki dies in Infinity War. Lady Loki would be fun, but who is worthy to act alongside Hiddleston? I’ve not seen much in the way of casting leaks so I’ll put Lady Loki as a hope.
    probably a loki that "learned" the power of the timekeapers as power over time, which i assume it s a path that the protagonist Variant will take it too after getting rid of the "evil" variant.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    He didn’t time travel, but the fact he teleported to Mongolia at this point was a variation from the « unique timeline » the TVA wants to protect, hence why they arrested him i think.
    But given everything is already pre-determined with the Avengers being allowed to do what they did, they should have seen Lokis escape coing and put a stop to it before it could happen and then there would be no need for a bogus apprehension of loki. He would have never been a variant.

    that whole predetermined garbage and "they were supposed to time travel" is some piss poor writing in my eyes. Kind of like time cops in general but thats for a different topic.
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  14. #114
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    But given everything is already pre-determined with the Avengers being allowed to do what they did, they should have seen Lokis escape coing and put a stop to it before it could happen and then there would be no need for a bogus apprehension of loki. He would have never been a variant.

    that whole predetermined garbage and "they were supposed to time travel" is some piss poor writing in my eyes. Kind of like time cops in general but thats for a different topic.
    They were on Loki's variant in seconds after his deviation, and in a remote enough place for minimal deviation to have occurred or repair required.

    They don't prevent variants, they trim variants. Acting before a variant occurred to prevent it would be interfering in the prime timeline directly, which would violate their base principle. There was a Loki who didn't grab the Tesseract in that moment. That's what really happened. This Loki is an aberration to that reality, hence the response by the TVA.

    To put it another way; if they've decided that Schrodinger's Cat died, if they open the box and it's alive, they kill the cat. That doesn't mean they kill the cat before it goes into the box.

    I think it's pretty darned clear that we're going to get into precisely how arbitrary and self-serving the decrees of the Time Keepers are; in the comics, they emerged at the end of time, and the reason they act to preserve it is to make sure they will always come to exist; their manipulations are entirely self-serving in the end. Who knows if that's true of the MCU version, but I imagine the motivations will turn out to be similarly self-serving.


  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    They were on Loki's variant in seconds after his deviation, and in a remote enough place for minimal deviation to have occurred or repair required.

    They don't prevent variants, they trim variants. Acting before a variant occurred to prevent it would be interfering in the prime timeline directly, which would violate their base principle. There was a Loki who didn't grab the Tesseract in that moment. That's what really happened. This Loki is an aberration to that reality, hence the response by the TVA.

    To put it another way; if they've decided that Schrodinger's Cat died, if they open the box and it's alive, they kill the cat. That doesn't mean they kill the cat before it goes into the box.

    I think it's pretty darned clear that we're going to get into precisely how arbitrary and self-serving the decrees of the Time Keepers are; in the comics, they emerged at the end of time, and the reason they act to preserve it is to make sure they will always come to exist; their manipulations are entirely self-serving in the end. Who knows if that's true of the MCU version, but I imagine the motivations will turn out to be similarly self-serving.
    So in other words the TVA are garbage and simply allowed the death of countless others because in this situation if you "let" the avengers do their time travel with no issues at all and given the shit they pulled from Ant man going to the past to "wander around a week" and all the other things they did and knew it. Then you also know Loki is going to take the cube and become a variant that you have to stop as they see past, present and future and in turn you just basically said, "F" him. This one has to die.

    It's the worst kind of writing.

    Combined with choice isn't really yours, it just gets lazier and lazier the more you think about it. I watched the show again this week and it gets less interesting the more I watched. Like you, I fully expect the TVA to have self serving motives and are ultimately a "cry me a river story of we do what we have to do" unless we decide not to garbage but either way. I'm less impressed with it the more I watch it.

    Yea, cap was supposed to go back and bone peggy. It was pre-determined. Now of course there are countless Caps that didn't but don't worry. We killed them.
    Last edited by quras; 2021-06-14 at 04:50 PM.
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  16. #116
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    So in other words the TVA are garbage and simply allowed the death of countless others because in this situation if you "let" the avengers do their time travel with no issues at all and given the shit they pulled from Ant man going to the past to "wander around a week" and all the other things they did and knew it. Then you also know Loki is going to take the cube and become a variant that you have to stop as they see past, present and future and in turn you just basically said, "F" him. This one has to die.

    It's the worst kind of writing.

    Combined with choice isn't really yours, it just gets lazier and lazier the more you think about it. I watched the show again this week and it gets less interesting the more I watched. Like you, I fully expect the TVA to have self serving motives and are ultimately a "cry me a river story of we do what we have to do" unless we decide not to garbage but either way. I'm less impressed with it the more I watch it.

    Yea, cap was supposed to go back and bone peggy. It was pre-determined. Now of course there are countless Caps that didn't but don't worry. We killed them.
    What you're complaining about here isn't writing, it's the TVA's ethical justifications for their actions.

    And, to repeat, I'm pretty sure pointing out that those are garbage bullshit is the entire point of the show.


  17. #117
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    I guess my question is, is the TVA bit of this "timeline" part of a timeline thats allowed or at least temporarily approved? Or does time cease to exist "working" at the TVA headquarters and/or for TVA employees?

    Also, when that dude opened the cover and exposed several infinite gems, some even on repeat , I was like OH MY GOD, thats insane.

    Suddenly I had so many questions but I suppose the only important one is, HOW do time and time altering items function within the parameters of the TVA?

  18. #118
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanstos View Post
    I guess my question is, is the TVA bit of this "timeline" part of a timeline thats allowed or at least temporarily approved? Or does time cease to exist "working" at the TVA headquarters and/or for TVA employees?

    Also, when that dude opened the cover and exposed several infinite gems, some even on repeat , I was like OH MY GOD, thats insane.

    Suddenly I had so many questions but I suppose the only important one is, HOW do time and time altering items function within the parameters of the TVA?
    Going off the comics, the TVA exists outside the universe/timeline proper. So the rules don't apply. In context, the Infinity Gems wouldn't do anything there, because the Infinity Gems didn't help create that pocket in the first place; they have no power there.

    Still off the comics, TVA agents are all born and bred on-site; they're not "recruited" from the universe. So they don't have any homes to escape back to anywhere in the timeline, no allies, no resources but the TVA; even if someone did grab some gems and book it to the universe proper, the Gems would rip them apart if they tried to use them and the TVA would be all over their asses, as they'd be creating a variant.

    This is entirely hypothetical, though, but I assume the big reason for the "approved" Avengers time travel jaunt is that they reversed Thanos' damage. It's probably likely any attempt by the TVA to stop Thanos and treat him as a "variant" was doomed to failure; he was always going to gather those gems and try and destroy half the universe, and trying to help stop that would be confronting the power of the combined Infinity Gems on their home turf, which is doomed to failure. If the TVA doesn't want that harm to the universe, the Avengers time travel jaunt is the only way through; it's that one possibility in the millions that Strange looked at. The TVA's existence is just an additional reason we experienced that successful timeline; rather than seeing the one timeline where everything happened to turn out (and presuming that there were millions where it didn't), it turns out the TVA's made sure those others never actually happened.

    And that's . . . good? That's millions of potential mass genocides that didn't happen.


  19. #119
    Cool first episode. NGL, I'm pretty confused how the whole one "sacred timeline" idea fits in any way with the rules of time and time travel that Endgame laid out.

    I feel I'm going to need the Austin Powers explanation of Time Travel here...

    BASIC CAMPFIRE for WARCHIEF UK Prime Minister!

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    So in other words the TVA are garbage and simply allowed the death of countless others because in this situation if you "let" the avengers do their time travel with no issues at all and given the shit they pulled from Ant man going to the past to "wander around a week" and all the other things they did and knew it. Then you also know Loki is going to take the cube and become a variant that you have to stop as they see past, present and future and in turn you just basically said, "F" him. This one has to die.

    It's the worst kind of writing.

    Combined with choice isn't really yours, it just gets lazier and lazier the more you think about it. I watched the show again this week and it gets less interesting the more I watched. Like you, I fully expect the TVA to have self serving motives and are ultimately a "cry me a river story of we do what we have to do" unless we decide not to garbage but either way. I'm less impressed with it the more I watch it.

    Yea, cap was supposed to go back and bone peggy. It was pre-determined. Now of course there are countless Caps that didn't but don't worry. We killed them.
    The multiverse concept in general invalidates choice. You don't make choices, you just happen to live in the universe where these were the choices you made. Other yous are exploring the alternatives somewhere else. I could see a well written story which plays with those ideas, notions of choice are fundamental to the human experience. Of course it could also devolve into a typical "time to punch villain-Loki/sky laser fight" boring marvel climax, but I don't see how the ideas they're playing with inherently make this lazy or piss poor. It was a compelling start.

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