Return to Outland on June 1 in Burning Crusade Classic™

[MasterHamster]

Was looking forward to it, but then they decided to go all-out EA Games on it.
Damn Blizzard, what happened to you?

[JonnyBeoulve]

What exactly is the issue with this $35 service?

Blizzard are going to be running 3 versions of WoW off 1 subscription and people are mad because they're making you pay to copy your maxxed out chars to new servers?

Did anybody really expect Blizzard to let you play Retail, TBC and Classic simultaneously off of 1 sub and not expect them to try and recoup some money elsewhere?

People will always find something to complain about. It's really one of the worst parts of living in this time and age. All you hear is negativity. There's just about nobody saying anything good about how great it is that Blizzard bothered bringing Classic back, combining retail and Classic into one subscription, managing to release Classic outside the launch window of 9.1 and some of the big MMO's coming out this year (I really didn't want to have to choose between FFXIV: Endwalker and Burning Crusade Classic, for example), or any of the other decisions and efforts. Gamers cry endlessly and it's so obnoxious it's no wonder I rarely read social media or forums anymore. First time I read a WoW forum in over four years and here I am having to listen to this nauseous dialog in the comments.

[Prag]

People will always find something to complain about. It's really one of the worst parts of living in this time and age. All you hear is negativity. There's just about nobody saying anything good about how great it is that Blizzard bothered bringing Classic back, combining retail and Classic into one subscription, managing to release Classic outside the launch window of 9.1 and some of the big MMO's coming out this year (I really didn't want to have to choose between FFXIV: Endwalker and Burning Crusade Classic, for example), or any of the other decisions and efforts. Gamers cry endlessly and it's so obnoxious it's no wonder I rarely read social media or forums anymore. First time I read a WoW forum in over four years and here I am having to listen to this nauseous dialog in the comments.

The negativity is not new, the internet just gave us all a voice when we shouldn’t have tbh

[froschhure]

yikes no thanks

[Zorachus]

What’s the appeal to re-play a game you already played 24/7, 15 years ago?

I recall really enjoying my time playing burning crusade back in the day lots of fun and time spent doing that. But do I want to do it all over again? Honestly I’m not sure maybe but probably not.

Blizzard Should just make a good MMORPG again and not this crappy Shittylands.

[crakerjack]

Bring it on, can't wait to play.

[hulkgor]

What’s the appeal to re-play a game you already played 24/7, 15 years ago?

This doesn't make any sense.

I watch movies i've seen dozens of times. I read books multiple times. I replay games i like often, every couple of years. Same goes for Classic\TBC.

How hard is it to understand that?

I'd hope that Classic massive success would be a clear indicator that a lot of people want this, yet here we are with people still questioning it, as if everyone must like what they like. Give it a rest.

[Inoculate]

What’s the appeal to re-play a game you already played 24/7, 15 years ago?

I recall really enjoying my time playing burning crusade back in the day lots of fun and time spent doing that. But do I want to do it all over again? Honestly I’m not sure maybe but probably not.

Blizzard Should just make a good MMORPG again and not this crappy Shittylands.

While I agree that I played BC enough to not bother, you shouldn't assume everyone has. Just don't play it and let those that enjoy it, enjoy it.

[RobertoCarlos]

No as far as I understand it you only have to pay if you want the same character on both Classic and TBC

You can make a new character on either Classic or TBC AFAIK for free as normal

free as normal in a sub game kk.

The consomer is stronk in this thread.

Blizzard's cash grab laziness reaches new heights each quarter.

[Appelgren]

I imagine 90% of the playerbase will go TBC

My question is, what's the point of copying a max level character?

Surely the people would want to start fresh for a new experience

Its not new for the people that played classic tho? And for people like me that got super tired super fast of classic and just want to try Classic TBC without the mindnumbing grind that is Classic/Vanilla then thats the only possible way Ill even consider stepping foot in Classic TBC.

And 90% sounds ludicrous btw... Id be surprised if its even 50% that completely stop playing retail to play Classic TBC.

[MrPaladinGuy]

I wonder if you can use a boost, then close that character.

[Ersula]

I wonder if you can use a boost, then close that character.

No, because the boost doesn't exist on the "Classic Era." If you boost an existing character it's moving to TBC classic automatically. Honestly I will just say the service is a bit overpriced for just how confused people seem to be about how it works. Azmogold's main complaint is "35 dollars to play my character?" Only if you want to play it in both eras, which is laughable because Classic Era is basically going to be a ghost town.

[T-34]

Of course there is. It's not universal, but you will definitelly find a lot more people who think, for instance, 20$ is a fair price, than you will find people who think 35$ is a fair price.

Equally, selling a product for 35$ doesn't mean it's universally worth 35$, it just means the product was worth 35$ for that person who purchased it.

On a personal level I do agree with most of your points, but... reality does not always agree with our beliefs. Your answer was so interesting that I have to answer myself

The concept of a "fair" price has been discussed much and one person tried to make a case for "objective prices" and that was Karl Marx and his ideas, which actually was to make a "fair and just society", led to socialist experiment in the 20th century. In an economic sense that was a complete disaster.

Let me give some examples of the problem with the concept of a "fair" or "correct" price:

1. A nice bouquet of flowers. Usually such a bouquet is completely worthless for me, but if it should happen that I should go on a date with a lady that loved flowers I would be willing to pay top dollar for it. What is a fair price for a bouquet of flowers? Marx would say that a bouquet has an objective price based on the labour used to produce it. In our capitalist society a bouquet is worth what you can get people to pay for it.

2. Brand products. It is no big secret that some factories produce both brand and no-brand products at the same time and sometimes only the brand on the finished product is the difference, but still people still are willing to pay very different prices for the same product.
Marx would say that brand and no-brand should cost the same as they cost the same to produce, in our world the price is different because people are willing to pay more for status.

So with our example of cosmetic micro-transactions Marx would agree with both of us when we say that a game shouldn't cost more, or very little more, with a pixel-horse included, because it cost virtually nothing to produce said horse, but in our world the game is worth much more more, because people are willing to pay a premium for it, just like they pay a premium for their brand sneakers, phone etc.

Which is my whole point: they don't make the game better in any way. You can't just say it "allows them to keep developing and supporting WoW", and allows the "subscription price to be stable" - you don't know those things. And the fact is there are plenty of good examples where games keep being developed and supported with a stable price without excessive monetization.

Ok, but why would we as customers just blindly accept that and not criticize it and defend our interests? There's a difference between making money (ie making enough revenue that you offset wages and expenses and get some return) and trying to make "all the money".[

I agree with you on a personal level that a more "wholesome" approach to producing WoW would be better, but it would be very bad for Blizzard to do so:

If Blizzard would start to limit its profits by not being so "greedy" then its stock prices would fall and the value of the company would get smaller. Lets then imagine another gaming company, lets call it 5-cent . That company is going full in on monetizing cosmetics etc. and making big bucks profit.
In a couple of years 5-cent would go to the stockholders of Blizzard and say to them:

"Look, we have this big pile of money, much bigger than Blizzards, we have made by selling cosmetics at outrageous prices. We will buy all your shares at a premium."

The stockholders, who are good capitalists, will of course sell and 5-cent would immediately start to introduce high-priced cosmetics in WoW.
Either Blizzard plays by the rules of capitalism, which are to make big profits so you can get bigger and eat the smaller fish, or else Blizzard will become a small fish that will get eaten by the bigger and more aggressive predators.

So for me cosmetics that have no impact on game-play are a completely acceptable compromise between what I believe in personally and what I know is realistic in our society. So thank god for high-priced cosmetics in WoW, and not pay-to-win shit like in other games.

[tsuruai]

your all sucker's KEKW blizz is right to charge you sheep more cash for a old expansion so you can feel nostalgic and in your prime KEKW. which will now set furture prices for each past expansion plus toys that go along with it. your the suckers they talk about in the boardroom, let's milk them all KEKW.

[crusadernero]

The worst thing about this is that alot of people will actually pay up, instead of saying "enough is enough". They will keep doing this and make it worse for each time.

They should just get it over with and introduce a full fledge battle pass like with CoD. With your levels and all that reward cosmetic shit.

My only hope is that there will be some classic servers that stay alive somewhat.

- - - Updated - - -

On a personal level I do agree with most of your points, but... reality does not always agree with our beliefs. Your answer was so interesting that I have to answer myself

The concept of a "fair" price has been discussed much and one person tried to make a case for "objective prices" and that was Karl Marx and his ideas, which actually was to make a "fair and just society", led to socialist experiment in the 20th century. In an economic sense that was a complete disaster.

Let me give some examples of the problem with the concept of a "fair" or "correct" price:

1. A nice bouquet of flowers. Usually such a bouquet is completely worthless for me, but if it should happen that I should go on a date with a lady that loved flowers I would be willing to pay top dollar for it. What is a fair price for a bouquet of flowers? Marx would say that a bouquet has an objective price based on the labour used to produce it. In our capitalist society a bouquet is worth what you can get people to pay for it.

2. Brand products. It is no big secret that some factories produce both brand and no-brand products at the same time and sometimes only the brand on the finished product is the difference, but still people still are willing to pay very different prices for the same product.
Marx would say that brand and no-brand should cost the same as they cost the same to produce, in our world the price is different because people are willing to pay more for status.

So with our example of cosmetic micro-transactions Marx would agree with both of us when we say that a game shouldn't cost more, or very little more, with a pixel-horse included, because it cost virtually nothing to produce said horse, but in our world the game is worth much more more, because people are willing to pay a premium for it, just like they pay a premium for their brand sneakers, phone etc.



I agree with you on a personal level that a more "wholesome" approach to producing WoW would be better, but it would be very bad for Blizzard to do so:

If Blizzard would start to limit its profits by not being so "greedy" then its stock prices would fall and the value of the company would get smaller. Lets then imagine another gaming company, lets call it 5-cent . That company is going full in on monetizing cosmetics etc. and making big bucks profit.
In a couple of years 5-cent would go to the stockholders of Blizzard and say to them:

"Look, we have this big pile of money, much bigger than Blizzards, we have made by selling cosmetics at outrageous prices. We will buy all your shares at a premium."

The stockholders, who are good capitalists, will of course sell and 5-cent would immediately start to introduce high-priced cosmetics in WoW.
Either Blizzard plays by the rules of capitalism, which are to make big profits so you can get bigger and eat the smaller fish, or else Blizzard will become a small fish that will get eaten by the bigger and more aggressive predators.

So for me cosmetics that have no impact on game-play are a completely acceptable compromise between what I believe in personally and what I know is realistic in our society. So thank god for high-priced cosmetics in WoW, and not pay-to-win shit like in other games.

Thats all fine, but we as players can decide if enough is enough or eat the shit they present us every time. Its not like they wont push this further, with more rewards. Somewhere down the line playerpower or resources tied to playing the game can be bought. And honestly, at this point - why shouldnt it?

Over the years the shop in wow has been normalized enough that theres no huge outcry anymore. People just carry on, so does Blizzard. They will find new avenues to suck money out the players. It wont end with this.

Since you talk about capitalism you also know that it demands growth. Always growth. If they made 150 million last year, it must be more next year. They have show again and again they are willing to do whatever to make growth(more money) in the company happen.

Im not against companies making money, thats sort of the main goals for them. But it becomes an issue when you deliver less so-good quality products and instead find new ways to milk money out of a loyal playerbase. Somewhere down the line theres gotta be about more than just growth.

Blizzard was once upon a time someone who was more than just capitalist growth. It was nerds & gamers creating beautiful and great universes for the rest to explore and have fun with. Thats not what this is anymore.

[Alraml]

Its not new for the people that played classic tho? And for people like me that got super tired super fast of classic and just want to try Classic TBC without the mindnumbing grind that is Classic/Vanilla then thats the only possible way Ill even consider stepping foot in Classic TBC.

And 90% sounds ludicrous btw... Id be surprised if its even 50% that completely stop playing retail to play Classic TBC.

I mean 90% of people who play Classic now

- - - Updated - - -

free as normal in a sub game kk.

The consomer is stronk in this thread.

Blizzard's cash grab laziness reaches new heights each quarter.

I mean if you wanna strawman what i'm saying then go ahead, makes you like like the brainlet you really are

- - - Updated - - -

What’s the appeal to re-play a game you already played 24/7, 15 years ago?

I recall really enjoying my time playing burning crusade back in the day lots of fun and time spent doing that. But do I want to do it all over again? Honestly I’m not sure maybe but probably not.

Blizzard Should just make a good MMORPG again and not this crappy Shittylands.

24/7 for you maybe. When Classic and TBC were out we had a shared computer in our house with very limited playtime. I couldn't raid at all back then

[Appelgren]

I mean 90% of people who play Classic now

Oh! My bad. Yeah.. people still interested in classic are most likely very hype about tbc

[Kolvarg]

in our world the price is different because people are willing to pay more for status.

I would say that's not the best example, because I would argue a lot of people are not aware that brands sell the same product for cheaper. I would think for the majority of products, people buy brands because they perceive (wrongfully or not) that they're paying extra for better quality.

I don't know whether what you describe would happen for sure or not. I know for sure that there are many games and companies, even in the AAA space, that survive perfectly fine with any reasonable person (meaning, not by pure capitalist standards) would consider reasonable monetization. I wouldn't know whether they operate the same regarding investors as Blizzard or not, so I can't say the existence of those games/companies suggest your proposed scenario is unlikely, or at least not certain.

Regardless, I'm not even saying what you're saying is not true. My point is not that these money-hungry anti-consumer moves aren't good business decisions. If their goal as a company is simply to make as much money as they can, they're probably great. I'm not one to say.

But them making as much money as they can is their concern, not ours as customers. Our main concern should ideally be to get a good product for a fair price.


But then you see people criticize and shame those who speak against these business practices. The problem lies exactly with people not seeing any issue, defending and even wanting these things to be part of their games - and it only helps perpetuate the issue. So I have to ask how exactly do these things make the game better, for them to be defending the multi-million company instead of their own interests. And to this day I haven't seen a good compelling reason as to we as gamers should in any way defend those practices.

I can understand using them despite not liking them - sometimes the usefulness or desire of those services outweights the ridiculous prices. What I can't understand is not just liking them, but even defending them.

[T-34]

I can understand using them despite not liking them - sometimes the usefulness or desire of those services outweights the ridiculous prices. What I can't understand is not just liking them, but even defending them.

It was never my intention to defend Blizzard or any other big multi-national companies. I detest them whole-heartedly.
My intention was just to point out that Blizzard, or any other company for that sake, must act like this within our economic system or else that company will either go bust or be eaten by the bigger fish. Expecting them to change is akin to expecting lions to stop eating gazelles.

I don't love Blizzard, just as I don't love any other company. I solely exist form them to give them my money, they solely exist for me to provide me with goods/services that are acceptable/desirable for me.
The moment that WoW doesn't give me enough personal value for my money then I will cancel my sub.
My personal no-go-zones for WoW are:
1. P2W
2. Bad raid or M+ content.
So far Blizzard hasn't implement 1 and still provides 2, so I am still willing to pay.

[KingSapmi]

Wait, so hold on. I'm dumb, how does this work? Right now, I began a week or two ago and leveled a Warlock out of nostalgia for Classic, level 30 now. Pretty certain I *will not* hit level 60 before this comes out. Realistically I'd be, maybe 40 or 45 by the time TBC comes out, as I don't play A LOT, but I want to experience TBC again, will have to pay to boost my character up to 60, or can I continue leveling the character in its normal pace and then head on out to Outland at 58? I'm gonna need someone to TLDR this to me, like I'm 5.