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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindon View Post
    What people like you seemingly don't seem to understand is that the "community" is not some kind of hivemind. You seeing a reddit thread with a few thousand upvotes means jack shit in the grand scheme of things.

    Theres more than a million people playing WoW and everyone has their own thoughts on what is good and what is bad.
    Well, ok, so what is Preach or anyone else representing then? What people like YOU seem not to understand, that there are obvious questions which need to be asked and if someone thinks that "Torghast" is good enough knows no better and changes which are being implemented are implemented BECAUSE of the feedback which was obvious to 9 people out of 10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Good for him, don't see what it has to do with playing core game.



    Mobs have mechanics. You just level in purple gear and ignore them all. If you, experienced player doing M+ would have to put effort in killing leveling boss, Andy in greens that want to see what this whole WoW is about has no chances. It would murder any potential of fresh blood for this game.

    And they tried scaling world to your item level. Community was so furious it lasted like day.

    Open world in general is terrible place to introduce hard content. All challenges Blizzard put there could be answered with bringing more people (nothing social about it, they would just came in, grab rewards, fly away). World bosses are perfect example. Only way to do it are instances where you control number of players.

    And regular Torghast is too easy right now (it was explained by Ion last time how it happened), it's obvious for everyone playing game. I didn't say none of these complains are right, I said they are generic.
    But you are not a developer. If they came here and said "well, we want to keep difficulty as an optional content mode, so we prefer to have instanced combat as a source for that" - cool, answer sucks, but they admit that mind numbing combat end end of the quest bosses are the intention and they don't want to change that.

    Scaling sucks in any game for the sole reason of "this just hits more", there is no difficulty besides engaging your full toolkit into killing mob who hits you hard instead of actually having to fight a rare mob/quest boss who is not a tank training dummy.
    Killing any fresh blood? I disagree, if combat is not engaging, any fresh blood will get bored by level 53. Look at feedback on New World dungeon experience.

    And no, m+ is not the same. M+ depth is revealed with scaling it up and you have a timer to fight against too. In the end it still burns down to "this just hits harder" but it still creates dynamics when you add scaling, affixes and timer onto it.

    I think they could easy introduce optional hard content for people where you have lfr version of a quest boss or mythic level quest boss - after all, hard modes are introduced in dungeons in life-feed, it's not like you have to relog or enter new instance if you want to kill King Mechagon on Hard Mode - you press the button!

    People who want story mode just do that, people who want hard modes could do a specific action to activate it - press a rune, kill a kitten. Killing rares would be way more fun in that way. And again I am not talking about scaling difficulty - am I talking mechanical difficulty.

    You will reply to me "well, but that wastes resources", you know what else wastes resources? Developing any covenant other that Night Fae for druids i.e. - they had to create 3 unique abilities and conduits and now legendries for druids which won't be used by 95% of the druids. And they have to balance it too.
    Last edited by erifwodahs; 2021-05-12 at 03:03 PM.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensa1 View Post
    and with this statement....

    "Leveling in Torghast is an idea the team likes a lot."

    Elvis has officially left the building.

    It's a sad, sad day in MMO design history when an already trivialized levelling experience may, in the near future, be accomplished solo in an instanced environment.
    I would love to level in Torghast

    But then again when I post here I feel like i'm one of the few people who actually is enjoying ShadowLands

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    You say that like it's a bad thing.
    levelling in Torgast isn't a bad thing for people who like to play solo RPG's and/or hate levelling and/or aren't overly social/community oriented. And I would totally concede that for the current Retail player base it's probably an appealing option.

    It is a bad thing, however, if you care the littlest amount about the MMO genre and what the MMO part of MMO-RPG once stood for.

    I have left the Retail building, so it really doesn't affect me beyond further reinforcing why I'm never likely to play Retail ever again, but I still shed a tear at this development.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensa1 View Post
    levelling in Torgast isn't a bad thing for people who like to play solo RPG's and/or hate levelling and/or aren't overly social/community oriented. And I would totally concede that for the current Retail player base it's probably an appealing option.

    It is a bad thing, however, if you care the littlest amount about the MMO genre and what the MMO part of MMO-RPG once stood for.

    I have left the Retail building, so it really doesn't affect me beyond further reinforcing why I'm never likely to play Retail ever again, but I still shed a tear at this development.
    Don't be ridiculous. Leveling the "MMO-way" is fun once, maybe twice. Then you've done all the quests and just want to experience the endgame on other classes. And it's not a retail problem either:
    I've played Classic only a few months at the release, but even then trade chat was full of "lf mage level boost" spam. Many people just want to play the endgame. The endgame should be filled with "MMO", leveling as a concept is due an overhaul since Blizzard stopped giving us new abilities with WoD.

    Vanilla leveling was a one time only thing only to be experienced by new players. No expansion will ever be able to recreate the mix of content available, missing knowledge and curiousness a new player got in vanilla.

    Since TBC WoW was solely about the endgame and doing solo Torghast is no different than using lfg tool or mage boosting you. Also Torghast can be done as a group.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    Can't blame the devs for trying to cater to the actual players and not the whiners who left years ago but are still hanging around forums and bitching about how the game used to be better in 2010.
    Yeah bro I'm sure the majority of the playerbase are raiders and habitual M+ runners. You're totally not as out-of-touch as the devs are.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by aceperson View Post
    spoilers for those who still care...

    apparently sylvanas had her soul split in half by frostmourne when arthas killed her. so EVERYTHING that has happened for her story on azeroth is her "dark" side. so wonderful that this comes from no where and they are dumping genocide and all the other atrocities on what is now a throw away doll. they just ruined sylvanas for me. i don't care if she has a mythic phase anymore.
    It makes sense after we got the Uther cinematic.
    Also makes me wonder if Blizz will use that as some plot device for us later since our characters were also killed by him.
    Last edited by Eapoe; 2021-05-13 at 01:44 PM.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Considering how she died and how she was immediately turned into a banshee, I'm not sure the uther one actually applies. I mean so far we asumed that Uther's other half was whisked away by the light, but the light had no reason to do this for Sylvanas. Souls don't get auto-sucked into the shadowlands either and if that was the case then there would thousands of wounded souls that arthas has felled/mutilated. The whole Uther SL story only works if he was a special case. Not to mention that the souls escaped years ago from frostmourne.

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    Some artbook iirc? Edit: Nope that SL Grimoire thing was july.
    Uh she wasn't immediately turned... Arthas had tortured her soul and then transformed her into a banshee and tortured her further going as far as locking her up in a coffin or something. She didn't just transform after being killed. Arthas personally took time out of his busy genocidal duties and made an example out of her because she put up fight against the Scourge defending Quel'thalas.

  8. #68
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s0ul View Post
    Uh she wasn't immediately turned... Arthas had tortured her soul and then transformed her into a banshee and tortured her further going as far as locking her up in a coffin or something. She didn't just transform after being killed. Arthas personally took time out of his busy genocidal duties and made an example out of her because she put up fight against the Scourge defending Quel'thalas.
    She was turned right after her death all the torture came after she was already raised.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by s0ul View Post
    Uh she wasn't immediately turned... Arthas had tortured her soul and then transformed her into a banshee and tortured her further going as far as locking her up in a coffin or something. She didn't just transform after being killed. Arthas personally took time out of his busy genocidal duties and made an example out of her because she put up fight against the Scourge defending Quel'thalas.
    Even if that was the case, that still doesn't make the Uther treatment plausible at all, since Arthas surely would have noticed if a soul was left standing around (he clearly could see and interact with those) after he toyed with the one he made into a banshee. Not to mention no one cares about the pure living Sylvanas anyway, her whole character became popular because of what happened to her. Having her good persona remain is just a cheap cop-out, as it still wouldn't be the actual Sylvanas people have come to like/hate for the past 20 years.
    /tar Tinker-zealot /point /lol
    WoW:Shadowlands - Danuser's Divina Commedia?

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    Yeah bro I'm sure the majority of the playerbase are raiders and habitual M+ runners. You're totally not as out-of-touch as the devs are.
    I have no idea what you're even talking about and how it has anything to do with what I posted. If it makes you happy, keep going.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Even if that was the case, that still doesn't make the Uther treatment plausible at all, since Arthas surely would have noticed if a soul was left standing around (he clearly could see and interact with those) after he toyed with the one he made into a banshee. Not to mention no one cares about the pure living Sylvanas anyway, her whole character became popular because of what happened to her. Having her good persona remain is just a cheap cop-out, as it still wouldn't be the actual Sylvanas people have come to like/hate for the past 20 years.
    The bias really shows. You obviously cannot discuss this without bringing your personal distaste for Sylvanas into this.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensa1 View Post
    and with this statement....

    "Leveling in Torghast is an idea the team likes a lot."

    Elvis has officially left the building.

    It's a sad, sad day in MMO design history when an already trivialized levelling experience may, in the near future, be accomplished solo in an instanced environment.
    Torghast can be ran with friends, I can see me and my friends levelling alts through torghast. That's not solo, it's exactly on par with questing/dungeons experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aceperson View Post
    i get that, but one cinematic doesn't set the precedent it happens constantly. why didn't arthas's father split? etc etc. it happening once was significant, if basically everyone now can be a jailer spy, you can't trust anyone. the entire forsaken race is in question now. how many of them were personally slain by arthas and raised?

    i also say out of nowhere because there was no hinting at this or anything until this expac. this should've been hinted as far back as legion if this is what they wanted.
    Maybe Arthas's father DID split? A king killed by his son while his kingdom was in desperate need of heroes... Might have some issues accepting that fact. Perhaps we got to see the good, forgiving side of his father.

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    All things considered, I'm still excited as ever for 9.1 to launch. Loving the way this expansion's going so far, hope it continues! We're finally getting some great stories.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by s0ul View Post
    The bias really shows. You obviously cannot discuss this without bringing your personal distaste for Sylvanas into this.
    Ah you are one of those.
    /tar Tinker-zealot /point /lol
    WoW:Shadowlands - Danuser's Divina Commedia?

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by tgrape View Post
    I'm sure asmon would have some very insightful questions to ask lmao.
    he actually would and he's done good interviews in the past

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    I have no idea
    Yeah, that's evident.

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