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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    Democracy in WoW would equate to "What streamers / content "creators" think is good" - they have way too much influence as it is, I'd prefer not to give them even more.
    You - and many others vastly overestimate streamers' influence over the player base and would be very surprised. There is actually quite a lot of proof to the contrary.

    -Streamers usually dislike cash shop mounts, sometimes actively campaign against them, but you have lots of players who are buying them and riding them around. No one cares about their crusades.
    -When we had the popular vote for the freebie mount, the mount pushed by streamers actually lost.

    Most people just play and mind their own business. If they follow any creators it's only for news about the game usually, and even if it's more, they dont necessarily listen to everything they say.

    And again, anyone commenting on this thread should at least acquaint themselves with how this works in OSRS. That game basically has the democractic vote on content and updates. It can be argued whether the outcome is ideal objectively, but it's certainly no trainwreck either, and OSRS is actually doing pretty good.

  2. #162
    Ever heard of the saying "a camel is a horse designed by a committee"?

  3. #163
    Epic! Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantazma View Post
    1 - Ok, do you swear to God that at this moment you are satisfied with all the talents of the Class of your main-char?
    Trusting regular players to make such a suggestion is a bad idea. Players don't have an idea of what would make something more useful while still maintaining balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fantazma View Post
    2 - There is a thread in this forum with thousands of posts proving that the thread "NEW CLASS" lives in our hearts right now. Frankly ... if in the next expansion they don't announce a new class, I predict a civil war. No joking. Now imagine that 75% of players today would love to see Tinker as a new class and only 5% would like to play with a Bard.
    We already have 12 classes with over 60 specs to balance. Given the current raid encounter limitations of 2 tanks, 2~5 healers, rest DPS, do we really need to add more classes/specs? There's already 6 tanks specs competing for 2 slots and 6 healing specs competing for anywhere from 2~5 healing spots.

    Also bard class as a support role, consider this: Hunters in Torghast (given the current powers) are basically a support class. How many hunters do you know that actually like this role? Every hunter I've talked to HATES Torghast because support role is ONLY useful in groups. And part of WoW's DNA is the option of solo play.

    As for Tinker's... to be effective, you're going to need to gut engineering as a profession. Somehow I don't think that's going to go over well. Just look how warlocks reacted when Demonology was gutted for Demon Hunters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fantazma View Post
    3 - About giving a score to devs about their most recent decisions and that REALLY this vote does not become a troll show ... just as I said above ... that only votes from those who actually play the current content be taken into account about the game. I don't talk about all the content but enough. I'm not saying that we should only take End-gamers or Mythic-raiders seriously ... but votes from those who enter the game once a month, kill some wild boars in ogrimmar and leave ... they really can't be taken seriously , OK.
    So ... it would be interesting to follow the vote of those who actually play the game ... and the popularity of devs in all of this.
    By your own metric, then only players who do mythic raiding can vote on mythic raids similar to high M+ players. Do you really want those people determining the fate of those systems because according to your own statement, only those who "actually play the content" should be taken into account. If X player doesn't participate in Mythic Raids or High M+ (high being defined as +10 or higher), then why should they be able to determine what goes in/out of that content?


    Quote Originally Posted by Fantazma View Post
    4 - In the name of everything I love .... I would REALLY LOVE to see a tab like this on the official Blizzard website. This is now incredibly necessary.
    I know that when new xmogs are drawn most of the ideas put on paper go to waste and only a few (chosen by, idk, 2 or 3 people) actually appear in the game! PLZ BLIZZARD, let the players become more involved in this choice !!! My God ... Since Legion you have not managed to create a single xmog that can really please the player. Forgive me but this opinion is almost unanimous.
    This is truly spoken from a person who has NO idea what it takes. So you see a great image/sketch on deviantart. But to translate that into in-game models takes a lot of work and hours. Also you do realize that armor doesn't always look "right" when you put it on different sized toons or different races. What might look good on a Orc could look silly on a Goblin or Vulpera. These things take more than just an artist rendering to become in-game assets.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fantazma View Post
    5 - I like transparency in my investments and YES ... WoW is an investment for me! Don't you like transparency in your investments? Ok ...
    Sure when you become an actual investor (of significance aka owning at least 5% of stock) of Activision-Blizzard stock then you can have that transparency. Currently you're not an investor but a customer and there's a difference.
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  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    Trusting regular players to make such a suggestion is a bad idea. Players don't have an idea of what would make something more useful while still maintaining balance.
    Ok, I respect your opinion. And it seems to be a majority opinion here. And the majority ... have to be respected, right?

    We already have 12 classes with over 60 specs to balance.
    If you think seriously about that we only have 3 very different types of "class" (DPS, Healers, Tanks) and yet ... each one with a well-defined function and therefore easy to balance. Everything else is just a very well made "illusion" that makes us think that there is a "super difference" between melee damage and ranged damade, shadow damage and holy damage ... etc.
    Adding one or two or ten more classes ... it would just be a problem "Blizzard wants to do" or "Blizzard doesn't want to do" ... Simple as that.

    your own metric, then only players who do mythic raiding can vote on mythic raids similar to high M+ players.
    Dude, I said exactly the opposite. I said that the votes that Blizzard should take seriously would be those of "players who play enough" to be taken seriously. This excludes players who log in once a month just to see if his toon is still breathing ... and "enough" does not mean that you have to be a 5 star mythic-raider for Blizzard to make your vote valid (although while Ion works as a boss at Blizzard ... it will be very difficult for Blizzard to hear players who are not mythic-raiders ..)

    is truly spoken from a person who has NO idea what it takes. So you see a great image/sketch on deviantart. But to translate that into in-game models takes a lot of work and hours. Also you do realize that armor doesn't always look "right" when you put it on different sized toons or different races. What might look good on a Orc could look silly on a Goblin or Vulpera. These things take more than just an artist rendering to become in-game assets.
    Your opinion about xmogs is very similar to your opinion about new classes. For some reason you believe that Blizzard is unable to make nice Xmogs because there is, idk, a kind of impossible algorithm or "Da vinci code" that they would have to go over for this to happen.
    Dude, this is not the way it is. You are underestimating Blizzard's ability to do something pleasant for us players.

    Sure when you become an actual investor (of significance aka owning at least 5% of stock) of Activision-Blizzard stock then you can have that transparency. Currently you're not an investor but a customer and there's a difference.
    Forgive me, english is not my first lenguage but .. I understand as "investor" anyone who "invested" something somewhere. If I invest my time (the hours I play) and REAL money (my sub) then ... I am an investor.
    (I really don't know if the English word "investor" is only used for that guy who works on wall street ...! Forgive me for that).
    Last edited by Fantazma; 2021-05-14 at 11:15 PM.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    For many people being given a supposed important choice like covenants and then ending up with the same issues of constant swapping players have mentioned with the new talent systems would be a shitshow.

    The wow playerbade isn't a homogenous mass that the developers try to spite. They are a whole bunch of people that want things that are often contradictory to eachother.

    Some players think flying should be available from as early as before max level, some think it should be removed completely. Some think it should be restricted to a few specific zones, some think it should be available slightly earlier than we get it but with a complete overhaul to how it works as a mechanic.

    Quite often you end up with issues where progress for some is regression for others. And then what do you do if the choice doesn't pan out and you need to change it, and how do you decide? Are you going to have votes on every topic every expansion? That would likely just end up having mechanics flipflop constantly as content people don't vote and annoyed people do.
    I should clarify i am not agreeing with what the OP caracterizes. Game development takes time. It would be impossible to flip flop.
    My point was simply towards those saying that players don't know anything. I think that is a wrong idea. We learned much from this expansion and how what we think people do and what they actually do are not that different. Casual players are not so different from hardcore ones. We saw that from how they chose their covenants.
    Players are not as stupid as some like to think and most of them do know what would make the game better (exceptions exist, obviously, but we learned they are a vocal minority)
    BUT, that does not mean i think the game should be designed in democracy polls. My point is that player feedback is important and such polls would be important feedback. But, developers should ultimately be in charge of decisions, not players.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Feedback is not the same as democracy. Far from it. When I say players know nothing, within this context I mean nothing in game design. Doesn't matter if you are top player or what not, unless you apply critical thinking and analysis as of why things are the way they are and why you enjoy things on a deeper level beyond that you like it and give a small reason as of why you do. There's lots of psychology that goes into designing games. I would say there is a minority who enjoy analysis at this level.

    I think best example to illustrate my point, which i've used before on this site, is Dark Souls and it's combat system. Regardless of the big hit it has become now, when Dark Souls was released, it was very niché. One of the big complaints for mainstream crowd wasn't the difficulty, it played a part of it absolutely, but that the combat was defensive and slow. One thing that contributed to this was that one of the first items you receive is a shield. Naturally everyone would equip the shield and start using it. Players tended to play passively due to "overusing" the shield, which made the combat play out vastly different than fans of the games do. They play more aggressively and uses rolls more often which makes the combat flow differently. They noticed that players who didn't enjoy the game tended to play by blocking a hit, swing, blocking a hit, swing etc etc... which is just boring. It's effective at the start and also learned by the tutorial itself.

    So here we have a problem. If the feedback is "the combat is slow" what would be the most obvious way to solve this? Change the combat system, but that's a fairly big change. When in fact you can condition players by having the tutorial play out differently, maybe not give a shield at the start etc etc... a lot of these things and variables are there across all games. What players complain about when it comes to a feature merely scratches the surface of what's actually going on. Which is why feedback is valuable, but you need to understand game design as well to know WHY people feel that way, because it's not guaranteed they know themselves.

    This was demonstrated in the release of Bloodborne. They removed the shield completely, well, except for the plank. Which even has the flavor text.
    A crude wooden shield used by the masses who have arisen to join the hunt.
    Hunters do not normally employ shields, ineffectual against the strength of the beasts as they tend to be.
    Shields are nice, but not if they engender passivity."


    By removing the shield, while still keeping the same sort of combat system you suddenly have more players play more aggressively. This was also enhanced by the regaining of health by being aggressive, so they doubled down on it. But beyond that you have the same combat, but the approach from players is different and thus the perception is different.

    As a side note. Usually when players give a solution and they say "just do this" i think it's safe to say that they haven't thought about whatever idea they had much, nor scrutinized it in how it can affect the game in ways they didn't at first anticipate.

    Been rambling on for too long though.
    I'm not sure the example applies because they are different games with different audiences.
    A souls games you buy, play and leave your impressions. The impressions seem based on the early game and tbh, that is important feedback. It raises the question of why have the shield in the tutorial if it's an end game trap.

    An MMORPG is a live service. If a player doesn't like the service they leave and they really wouldn't be able to leave feedback. The official forums require you to be subbed. I would assume official polls would be only on official channels.
    The players that play an mmo are more involved and play the game far more, but you also need to understand that there will always be people that don't think things through. The question is how representative they are.

    I direct you also to my above post to clarify that i am not saying it should be designed as a democracy but rather that such information would be valuable feedback.
    The majority of wow players is not as clueless as you think. Their feedback is useful.
    Also that feedback could help nudge the game in better ways. Because the players told the devs that tying covenant to player power was a bad idea. If there was a poll at large of the community with say 85% saying that, the message would have more weight than just a youtuber saying it and the devs might have relented.
    The players know a lot. They play this game for hundreads of hours. The devs do not. Not for long. They play the content, but they aren't engaging with the systems daily. Sometimes they do need a push in the right direction. I think such polls could help without necessarely being binding.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2021-05-15 at 03:57 AM.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post


    I'm not sure the example applies because they are different games with different audiences.
    A souls games you buy, play and leave your impressions. The impressions seem based on the early game and tbh, that is important feedback. It raises the question of why have the shield in the tutorial if it's an end game trap.

    An MMORPG is a live service. If a player doesn't like the service they leave and they really wouldn't be able to leave feedback. The official forums require you to be subbed. I would assume official polls would be only on official channels.
    The players that play an mmo are more involved and play the game far more, but you also need to understand that there will always be people that don't think things through. The question is how representative they are.

    I direct you also to my above post to clarify that i am not saying it should be designed as a democracy but rather that such information would be valuable feedback.
    The majority of wow players is not as clueless as you think. Their feedback is useful.
    Also that feedback could help nudge the game in better ways. Because the players told the devs that tying covenant to player power was a bad idea. If there was a poll at large of the community with say 85% saying that, the message would have more weight than just a youtuber saying it and the devs might have relented.
    The players know a lot. They play this game for hundreads of hours. The devs do not. Not for long. They play the content, but they aren't engaging with the systems daily. Sometimes they do need a push in the right direction. I think such polls could help without necessarely being binding.
    You talk about feedback, which I never contested... I even started it out with separating feedback from democracy because they aren't the same. I am with you that feedback is important, never claimed otherwise...You are arguing a point I didn't make.

  7. #167
    That's way more input than I want the average player to have. I've often thought I would like in game surveys since people frequently say the forums are 1% of the playerbase and don't reflect how the majority of players feel. Well, let's find out then. They need to be in game though or it's just the same 1%ers doing the survey. Also, Blizzard metrics won't ever calculate how well-liked a feature is, especially if that feature is in any way ingrained into progress where people feel compelled to do things they hate.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  8. #168
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    Could work so long as it was a restricted democracy.

    Cutting edge or ahead of the curve and challenger and up.

    Trasmog could be a free vote but just like the hidden forums on the official forums I wouldn't want votes for class or gameplay balance to be open to everyone.
    Yes of course. Can't have the bads giving an opinion.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Yes of course. Can't have the bads giving an opinion.
    It hurts everyone to even the bads. They are so bad they can't actually vocalize their wants internally. They only know what they believe they want and once they have it much like when heroic dungeons were nerfed they discard what they get as having no value.

  10. #170
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    It could work, but you'd need to structure the voting so that people don't just see a poll, skim through the options, click to vote in 2 seconds, and the move on.

    Runescape has ingame polling booths, where the devs will put up "Should we implement X?" with a binary yes or no answer. 95% of the time, the playerbase always vote "yes" just off of that, without going to the forums and reading the threads discussing the implications of X. So was to the detriment of Runescape, and lo and behold, the bad things that people in the discussion threads feared came about, but they couldn't do anything about it because they were an informed minority while the majority of people who voted didn't know WTF they were voting for.

    I think in order for voting to work, you would need to have a link that redirects you to a forum discussion topic, and only after you have read a significant portion of the thread should you be allowed to vote.

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  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    Could work so long as it was a restricted democracy.

    Cutting edge or ahead of the curve and challenger and up.

    Trasmog could be a free vote but just like the hidden forums on the official forums I wouldn't want votes for class or gameplay balance to be open to everyone.
    And this is the exact reason this is a bad idea. Got it in one.

    Making a game only for a small group of people is a good way to go out of business. People won't adapt. They'll just quit.

  12. #172
    Epic! Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantazma View Post
    If you think seriously about that we only have 3 very different types of "class" (DPS, Healers, Tanks) and yet ... each one with a well-defined function and therefore easy to balance.
    However, it hasn't been easy to balance. Let's look at just tanks: At high levels of M+, Demon Hunters are way in the lead. If balancing was easy, then all tanks should be equally represented but that's not the case. Meanwhile back in Legion, it was Death Knights tanks that were in the lead.

    If we look over at DPS, the top spots changes so much from each patch because balancing is difficult and encounter designs can favor one spec over another within the course of just 1 expansion.

    Adding more classes just makes this even more difficult as you then need to consider that added class to the mix of everything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fantazma View Post
    Simple as that.
    Nothing is ever that simple. In fact, every new "class" that has been added to the game were broken and overpowered until changes brought them in line. Just look at how good Brewmaster Monk's stagger works in previous/current expansions (especially when they also had "original" Guard).


    Quote Originally Posted by Fantazma View Post
    I said that the votes that Blizzard should take seriously would be those of "players who play enough" to be taken seriously.
    Fine then, using this new metric: Whom are the players who play enough? Let's just look at M+ design/concept approval: Who gets to weigh in? Those that get KSC? KSE? KSM? Let's move to raiding next, who gets to weigh in? Those that only do LFR, or those that do up to Normal? Or do we include Heroic raiders? How many Mythic raiders get consideration for their input? Do the musing/feedback of R2WF raiders get ignored (since they are such a small population)? Where do you draw the line? 10 hours a week played in WoW? 20 hours? 40 hours?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fantazma View Post
    Your opinion about xmogs is very similar to your opinion about new classes. For some reason you believe that Blizzard is unable to make nice Xmogs because there is, idk, a kind of impossible algorithm or "Da vinci code" that they would have to go over for this to happen.
    No it's not an impossible algorithm but it does take a LOT of time. Just consider 1 tier set (back when we had tier armor): You need to create 12 different looks (one for each class) with 4 variations (one for each difficulty of raid: LFR, Normal, Heroic, Mythic). That's 48 armor sets, but you're not done there: Now you have to adjust 28 armor sets so that they functionally look ok across all the races in WoW. We're not just talking scaling the shoulder piece size but also where it sits on the shoulder between an Orc, a Tauren, a Goblin, a Gnome, etc etc. And consider this: with allied races, there's even more racial considerations to make for just 1 armor set.

    This means not only a lot of work from art designers but also coders/programmers. And then because Blizzard isn't a "small indie company", any work that gets done also needs approval from supervisors to managers and how many more layers of management already at Blizzard.

    Overall a single tier set could easily take months to complete from concept design to introduction into live game.

    Why do you think Blizzard went from Tier Sets down to Armor sets? Armor sets (which we had in BFA) reduced it down from 48 Armor Sets to 16 Armor sets (4 for each armor type: cloth, leather, mail and plate. Multiplied by 4 (for each difficulty of raid: LFR, Normal, Heroic, Mythic).

    Even now in Shadowlands, we still don't have tier sets (maybe in 9.2?) which indicates that it's taking a lot of time to just make 1 tier set.
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  13. #173
    Pandaren Monk Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    Could work so long as it was a restricted democracy.

    Cutting edge or ahead of the curve and challenger and up.

    Trasmog could be a free vote but just like the hidden forums on the official forums I wouldn't want votes for class or gameplay balance to be open to everyone.
    Yes, because we definitely want to alienate any and all casual players from being able to participate in voting. The only way restrictions work is when polling for specific types of content, which has started to be done in OSRS due to spite voting. Gameplay and content changes would need to be voted on by the entire playerbase as it affects the entire playerbase, with tuning being pushed through as a form of integrity/balance change without player feedback.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    Yes, because we definitely want to alienate any and all casual players from being able to participate in voting. The only way restrictions work is when polling for specific types of content, which has started to be done in OSRS due to spite voting. Gameplay and content changes would need to be voted on by the entire playerbase as it affects the entire playerbase, with tuning being pushed through as a form of integrity/balance change without player feedback.
    It doesn't effect the entire playerbase though now does it? Do non raiders and rated pvpers understand what their conduits do much less how to properly deploy them beyond a default build?

    Sometimes its best to leave things to the titans.

  15. #175
    Pandaren Monk Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    It doesn't effect the entire playerbase though now does it? Do non raiders and rated pvpers understand what their conduits do much less how to properly deploy them beyond a default build?

    Sometimes its best to leave things to the titans.
    Again, tuning would need to be pushed in by Blizzard as integrity/balance changes and would not include the playerbase. Virtually anything else, such as gameplay changes or new PvP maps, will need to be run by all players as it affects all of them. The only changes that should exclude parts of the playerbase is when spite voting is a concern or if it only relates to a specific niche in the community.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  16. #176
    Sounds like a great way to have classes get massive nerfs due to player perception, rather than actually being OP. "This class is doing better than me in random BGs, clearly they are massively overpowered in all content, 30% nerf plz!"

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    Again, tuning would need to be pushed in by Blizzard as integrity/balance changes and would not include the playerbase. Virtually anything else, such as gameplay changes or new PvP maps, will need to be run by all players as it affects all of them. The only changes that should exclude parts of the playerbase is when spite voting is a concern or if it only relates to a specific niche in the community.
    How does it effect the entire playerbase? Its been a decade and random bgs players can't really understand maps like netherstorm.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    However, it hasn't been easy to balance. Let's look at just tanks: At high levels of M+, Demon Hunters are way in the lead. If balancing was easy, then all tanks should be equally represented but that's not the case. Meanwhile back in Legion, it was Death Knights tanks that were in the lead.

    If we look over at DPS, the top spots changes so much from each patch because balancing is difficult and encounter designs can favor one spec over another within the course of just 1 expansion.

    Adding more classes just makes this even more difficult as you then need to consider that added class to the mix of everything else.



    Nothing is ever that simple. In fact, every new "class" that has been added to the game were broken and overpowered until changes brought them in line. Just look at how good Brewmaster Monk's stagger works in previous/current expansions (especially when they also had "original" Guard).




    Fine then, using this new metric: Whom are the players who play enough? Let's just look at M+ design/concept approval: Who gets to weigh in? Those that get KSC? KSE? KSM? Let's move to raiding next, who gets to weigh in? Those that only do LFR, or those that do up to Normal? Or do we include Heroic raiders? How many Mythic raiders get consideration for their input? Do the musing/feedback of R2WF raiders get ignored (since they are such a small population)? Where do you draw the line? 10 hours a week played in WoW? 20 hours? 40 hours?



    No it's not an impossible algorithm but it does take a LOT of time. Just consider 1 tier set (back when we had tier armor): You need to create 12 different looks (one for each class) with 4 variations (one for each difficulty of raid: LFR, Normal, Heroic, Mythic). That's 48 armor sets, but you're not done there: Now you have to adjust 28 armor sets so that they functionally look ok across all the races in WoW. We're not just talking scaling the shoulder piece size but also where it sits on the shoulder between an Orc, a Tauren, a Goblin, a Gnome, etc etc. And consider this: with allied races, there's even more racial considerations to make for just 1 armor set.

    This means not only a lot of work from art designers but also coders/programmers. And then because Blizzard isn't a "small indie company", any work that gets done also needs approval from supervisors to managers and how many more layers of management already at Blizzard.

    Overall a single tier set could easily take months to complete from concept design to introduction into live game.

    Why do you think Blizzard went from Tier Sets down to Armor sets? Armor sets (which we had in BFA) reduced it down from 48 Armor Sets to 16 Armor sets (4 for each armor type: cloth, leather, mail and plate. Multiplied by 4 (for each difficulty of raid: LFR, Normal, Heroic, Mythic).

    Even now in Shadowlands, we still don't have tier sets (maybe in 9.2?) which indicates that it's taking a lot of time to just make 1 tier set.
    Dude, everything you said just makes me think of these questions: Are the FFXIV Devs from another planet ??
    FFXIV has 18 class (jobs) and a few days ago they announced one more: The Reaper.



    I don't know what kind of "satan pact" FFXIV devs have but every day that game steals players from the wow. Is it because in FFXIV listening to the players and giving us new classes and new xmogs is something ... simple?

  19. #179
    I mean, OSRS works by allowing players to vote for changes. It's not a terrible idea.

  20. #180
    Blizzard is actively creating systems that makes the experience of playing World of Warcraft worse for me.

    We can go on and on about "armchair devs" and players not knowing what they want but Blizzard doesn't have a fucking clue what I want either.

    At least with a voting system there's a chance that others agree with what I'd like to see, and there's a chance its implemented into the game.

    At least with the tree mount someone got what they wanted, even if I wanted the book. Blizzard created something they KNEW players wanted instead of what they THOUGHT players might want.
    Last edited by LarryFromHumanResources; 2021-05-18 at 12:17 AM.
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