Israel and Palestine Conflict Heats Up

[Draco-Onis]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-...ll-over-30000/

Damn CBS for skipping ahead and reporting on the dueling claims alongside acknowledgement by the IDF that they did shoot "some" people!

https://www.axios.com/2024/02/29/gaz...rael-idf-hamas

How dare Axios continue that trend!

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/l...tes-rcna141090

What the fuck NBC, you too?

Damn, what is with these media reporting on the dueling claims and the fact that we don't have independent corroboration yet. Your prediction doesn't seem to be very accurate and it seems a lot less like a prediction and a lot more like just general "lamestream media bad".

Also, I literally don't give a fuck about social media misinformation and narratives in relation to this specific topic because that's a totally different ballgame and I think we've all seen how deeply untrustworthy much of it has been.

I mean he's not entirely wrong there's been several meta data study about how biased the main stream media has been in their coverage of Gaza. Most of it has to do with the use of language and omission of certain emotive words such as children, kids, murder, genocide etc which are put when covering either Ukraine or 10/7.

That's not even going into NYTimes , wall street journal and others that have given former IDF members or Israeli government officials full range to write whatever they want.

- - - Updated - - -

They'll say, "how did this happen, who could have predicted it? I told you they are all Hamas".

A lot of violence is created out of desperation.

Schrödinger's Hamas they are all powerful and everywhere at the same time they are weak and the IDF is achieving victory.

[Edge-]

I mean he's not entirely wrong there's been several meta data study about how biased the main stream media has been in their coverage of Gaza. Most of it has to do with the use of language and omission of certain emotive words such as children, kids, murder, genocide etc which are put when covering either Ukraine or 10/7.

Yep, that's a thing and if he wanted to complain about/discuss that then he went about it in a really indirect and unclear way by complaining about a hypothetical narrative unfolding now when that hypothetical narrative is not unfolding as he complained about.

That's not even going into NYTimes , wall street journal and others that have given former IDF members or Israeli government officials full range to write whatever they want.

Ok and? Is that happening here? We can quibble over the lack of use of "genocide" or not, but it seems that media are reporting on the dueling initial claims and not just the IDF side or something. In this instance everyone I've seen seems to be reporting also on both the claims from Gazan officials and local media on the ground during the killings as well and doing so with fairly equal weight/credibility in these early hours.

[Elegiac]

Your prediction doesn't seem to be very accurate and it seems a lot less like a prediction and a lot more like just general "lamestream media bad".

Or, it's me poking fun at the fact that American news sources have a known bias in reporting when it comes to the actions of the IDF. "Seem" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your complaint, and if we're talking "seems" then it seems like you're conflating me with pro-Palestinian posters who actually are posting misinformation.

[Draco-Onis]

Ok and? Is that happening here? We can quibble over the lack of use of "genocide" or not, but it seems that media are reporting on the dueling initial claims and not just the IDF side or something. In this instance everyone I've seen seems to be reporting also on both the claims from Gazan officials and local media on the ground during the killings as well and doing so with fairly equal weight/credibility in these early hours.

Why aren't they talking about Ben Gvir celebrating this and saying that this incident shows why aid should not go to Palestinians? If this was Hamas the headlines would say MASSACRE AT SUCH AND SUCH. I don't see why they just are even posting IDF reasons when they have given 3 so far and counting. Their top official is more than happy to post about his feelings so no reason to think this is an issue for them aside from PR.

[Edge-]

Why aren't they talking about Ben Gvir celebrating this and saying that this incident shows why aid should not go to Palestinians?

Now we're moving goalposts here.

If this was Hamas the headlines would say MASSACRE AT SUCH AND SUCH.

And whataboutism. I don't entirely disagree, but this seems irrelevant.

I don't see why they just are even posting IDF reasons when they have given 3 so far and counting.

Because that's literally standard journalism to report the claims of all involved in an incident?

Their top official is more than happy to post about his feelings so no reason to think this is an issue for them aside from PR.

Cool, then they don't report on all the gross and awful things many Israeli government officials or IDF spokespeople say or anything and we don't know what the domestic rhetoric is as outsiders which...doesn't seem like it actually helps or informs us about this and would instead leave us less informed.

[Draco-Onis]

Now we're moving goalposts here.



And whataboutism. I don't entirely disagree, but this seems irrelevant.



Because that's literally standard journalism to report the claims of all involved in an incident?



Cool, then they don't report on all the gross and awful things many Israeli government officials or IDF spokespeople say or anything and we don't know what the domestic rhetoric is as outsiders which...doesn't seem like it actually helps or informs us about this and would instead leave us less informed.

I am pointing out the obvious, can you honestly say that this would be covered the same way if Hamas did something like this?

[ParanoiD84]

Would not trust BBC with any numbers they have reported plenty of unverified hamas claims in the past, remember when they had to apologize for spreading lies of the Al-Ahli hospital? or executing palestinians in gaza? just like i would not trust al jahzera that is run by qatar that is hosting hamas leadership and i would not trust the majority of israeli sites either.

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/hknlenjmp
https://deadline.com/2024/01/bbc-apo...ms-1235700076/

Reuters is one of few i still trust.

[Milchshake]

Or, it's me poking fun at the fact that American news sources have a known bias in reporting when it comes to the actions of the IDF. "Seem" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your complaint, and if we're talking "seems" then it seems like you're conflating me with pro-Palestinian posters who actually are posting misinformation.

I think part of it the ongoing disconnect for people that only discovered politics in 2015....

Those people probably wont remember the 2014 Israeli onslaught of Gaza. David Brooks as waxing favorable on the summer onslaught. Then months later he he was humbrle-bragging, on NPR as boomers do, about his son serving in the Most Moral Army in the World^tm. He also took a dig at the US Amry. I guess that serving in a post colonial mixed all-volunteer force, is below the 5th Avenue set.
It was like the third time that year that a NYT headliner had childern in the IDF. Which they did not disclose during their reporting.

Also 2024.
https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/...rtz-october-7/
ANAT SCHWARTZ HAD a problem. The Israeli filmmaker and former air force intelligence official had been assigned by the New York Times to work with her nephew Adam Sella and veteran Times reporter Jeffrey Gettleman on an investigation into sexual violence by Hamas on October 7 that could reshape the way the world understood Israel’s ongoing war in the Gaza Strip.

Ya, I think the Intercept is sus more than most here. Especially gross creeps like Scahill and Grim.

But atleast we're getting some confirmation from Vanity Fair. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/new-...rael-gaza-leak
NYT management is "investigating the leak". Much like it investigated the leak on who appoved the Tom Cotton op ed.

The real success of Israel, seems to have been the angency capture of the NYT editorial board all along.

[Elegiac]

I think part of it the ongoing disconnect for people that only discovered politics in 2015....

Those people probably wont remember the 2014 Israeli onslaught of Gaza. David Brooks as waxing favorable on the summer onslaught. Then months later he he was humbrle-bragging, on NPR as boomers do, about his son serving in the Most Moral Army in the World^tm. He also took a dig at the US Amry. I guess that serving in a post colonial mixed all-volunteer force, is below the 5th Avenue set.
It was like the third time that year that a NYT headliner had childern in the IDF. Which they did not disclose during their reporting.

Also 2024.
https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/...rtz-october-7/
ANAT SCHWARTZ HAD a problem. The Israeli filmmaker and former air force intelligence official had been assigned by the New York Times to work with her nephew Adam Sella and veteran Times reporter Jeffrey Gettleman on an investigation into sexual violence by Hamas on October 7 that could reshape the way the world understood Israel’s ongoing war in the Gaza Strip.

Ya, I think the Intercept is sus more than most here. Especially gross creeps like Scahill and Grim.

But atleast we're getting some confirmation from Vanity Fair. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/new-...rael-gaza-leak
NYT management is "investigating the leak". Much like it investigated the leak on who appoved the Tom Cotton op ed.

The real success of Israel, seems to have been the angency capture of the NYT editorial board all along.

Would make sense considering it seems like they're fucking spying on everyone else in this damn country so why not the NYT editorial board, lol.

[Draco-Onis]

This is what you call bad timing combined with WTF

Pentagon Chief Stumbles Over The Number Of Palestinians Killed By Israel

Pentagon: Austin cites Hamas casualty numbers, but doesn't stand by them

If the Biden administration had any sense or an ounce of shame they would realize that all of this is going to look really bad on the history books when the final death toll is tallied.

[Jessicka]

Israel Gaza: Checking Israel's claim to have killed 10,000 Hamas fighters https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68387864

Their assessment is that it’s rather lower than the IDF claim, and worse, the demographics of the dead correlate pretty much with the demographics of the population, which only serves to reinforce the idea that the killing is as indiscriminate as Biden himself accused them of earlier.

- - - Updated - - -

This is what you call bad timing combined with WTF

Pentagon Chief Stumbles Over The Number Of Palestinians Killed By Israel

Pentagon: Austin cites Hamas casualty numbers, but doesn't stand by them

If the Biden administration had any sense or an ounce of shame they would realize that all of this is going to look really bad on the history books when the final death toll is tallied.

If Biden does anything, the Democrats would find themselves out of power entirely and the Republicans would make sure things got even worse, and not just in Gaza but the West Bank and Lebanon too. It’s lose lose, his hands are tied by history.

[Draco-Onis]

If Biden does anything, the Democrats would find themselves out of power entirely and the Republicans would make sure things got even worse, and not just in Gaza but the West Bank and Lebanon too. It’s lose lose, his hands are tied by history.

The vote in Michigan shows staying the course will lower his chances of winning, he always had a choice instead of yelling he is a Zionist in every interview he can follow the example of past presidents. Biden should have followed the path of neutrality even if it wasn't genuine but now he looks weak and pathetic by pretending he can't do anything while falling all over himself to get money to fund the genocide.

His hands are not tied he made this bed laid in it and refuses to get off regardless of what happens.

[Jessicka]

The vote in Michigan shows staying the course will lower his chances of winning, he always had a choice instead of yelling he is a Zionist in every interview he can follow the example of past presidents. Biden should have followed the path of neutrality even if it wasn't genuine but now he looks weak and pathetic by pretending he can't do anything while falling all over himself to get money to fund the genocide.

His hands are not tied he made this bed laid in it and refuses to get off regardless of what happens.

The fact of the matter is that the voters there giving him a bloody nose will turn out on election day for him because they’re terrified of Trump getting in. They’re not stupid.

[Draco-Onis]

The fact of the matter is that the voters there giving him a bloody nose will turn out on election day for him because they’re terrified of Trump getting in. They’re not stupid.

The whole point of the campaign is that these people are openly saying they won't, if you lost entire branches of your family and Biden comes on TV saying their deaths is fake news you would not vote for him. The vast majority of voters react stronger to emotions than the logical argument and here we are talking about losing loved ones.

[Edge-]

and Biden comes on TV saying their deaths is fake news

I mean let's at least keep our hypotheticals within the realm of remotely believable reality.

[Draco-Onis]

I mean let's at least keep our hypotheticals within the realm of remotely believable reality.

Should I link the number of times himself and his administration keeps calling the deaths "Hamas" numbers. It's word for word an IDF talking point used to dismiss their deaths.

[Edge-]

Should I link the number of times himself and his administration keeps calling the deaths "Hamas" numbers. It's word for word an IDF talking point used to dismiss their deaths.

Has he repeated that since like, last year? Because I recall that from the early days of the conflict but nothing remotely recently. He's been surprisingly critical of Netanyahu and how the IDF/government has prosecuted their war since then, including calling their tactics indiscriminate bombing and "over the top" in more recent months as things have changed and evolved.

[tehdang]

An Axios reporter says that the US may begin airdropping aid as early as next week. Recent events have shown that aid truck convoys can be overwhelmed by crowds, leading to trample deaths and civilians run over by the trucks, not to mention the security situation in guarding the convoys.
https://x.com/BarakRavid/status/1763342118871814394

For those that aren't bored by long analysis papers, the Washington Institute has a detailed investigation into the issues with Hamas casualty numbers. The reported al-Ahli fatalities were the most obvious entry point into massive errors in reporting, as there is no way 500 died in a parking lot and looking at the crater. The main story is how and why Hamas has reported demographically impossible adult male fatalities.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/...ion=attachment

Sky news interview and clash over fatality figures. I think Natasha Hausdorff makes her case well, but maybe your opinions differ from mine. 3min video.
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1762979370237395380

US vocal congressional support for Israel is still going strong. Ritchie Torres, a Democrat from NY, recently gave a speech about how, "despite the deafening silence and indifference that has taken hold in the wake of October 7th, there are non-Jews who do care, who do stand up, and who do speak out."
https://twitter.com/RitchieTorres/st...82696925769908
Obviously, he's not cowed by the protestors that accuse him of supporting genocide and disrupt his office and NY official panels. Not too long ago, he pushed back against anti-Zionism propaganda./ It's good to see Democrats that don't follow the example of their more progressive allies on Israel.

[Draco-Onis]

Has he repeated that since like, last year? Because I recall that from the early days of the conflict but nothing remotely recently. He's been surprisingly critical of Netanyahu and how the IDF/government has prosecuted their war since then, including calling their tactics indiscriminate bombing and "over the top" in more recent months as things have changed and evolved.

Lloyd Austin is currently spewing the same lines, he has leaked and send some signals but he was just on Seth Meyers saying how much of a Zionist he is. He hasn't said anything commemorating the dead regardless of the depressing milestones but makes a whole press junket about 100 days of the hostages. I can go on and on and on he has made it pretty clear that Palestinian lives mean nothing to him.

Biden is a seasoned politician he obviously feels that he doesn't need those votes to win or he is such a Zionist as he keeps saying he doesn't care for them.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I've been skeptical of a lot of "news" and other shit in general around this war because of the amount of misinformation spread by "all sides" and the number of folks who fall for it - and I'm not excepting myself from this. That's one reason why I remain skeptical of a lot of claims and seek credible reporting to verify it. Because for every unconfirmed report that turned out to be true after the fact there's an unconfirmed report that turns out to be false. That's why I try to judge each by its own merits.

Example: You use the NY Post as your source and like my dude you and I both know how awful that Murdoch rag is as a source. Or a dude with a podcast on Twitter connected with a sketchy outlet.

Best I can find that seems to verify that's not Democracy Now! (who have their own issues) is New York Magazine...who source back to the NY Post. I'm waiting for literally any credible outlet to confirm the friend's story before I buy into it. I'm not ruling it out as impossible or anything, I just don't believe it now.

Yeah, I'm gonna wait until some credible reporting on the topic happens. Damn me for that, I guess.

By your logic nothing is credible about this war, not even the sources you yourself trust. Every journo who is even remotely likely to expose Israel in any way is executed by the IDF, so it's not like any one of us can get reliable information from any source. There's something about a guy who was staunchly against suicide setting himself on fire, who was in a key position for overseeing troop movement, that just feels far more trustworthy than literally any other mainstream news source that's been downplaying the genocide.