"Sorry we are closed nobody wants to work here anymore due to government handouts"

[Edge-]

Endus believes most success is privilege and luck and very little to do with the choices you've made in life.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/s...breeds-success
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...n-we-realized/
https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/art...hard_work_luck

Because that's largely accurate. Hard work plays a role, sure, but privilege and luck play far, far larger roles than most folks are comfortable admitting/accepting.

[Endus]

Endus believes most success is privilege and luck and very little to do with the choices you've made in life.

https://www.pnas.org/content/117/1/251

Data doesn't lie. Social mobility is fairly low, and that demonstrates that success and prosperity is far more tied to "how well off were your parents" than any personal drive or choice.

Edit: More sources repeating the same thing;
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/socia...e-should-know/
https://insight.kellogg.northwestern...-match-reality
Also that race is a key factor limiting social mobility in the USA, even if one generation manages to buck the trend; https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...n-jones-porter

[Krakan]

You grew up in a family who owned their own home, a house that was oversized enough you could rent out the basement. By your own admission, you didn't have to pay for college.

Like I said; you're describing your own privilege, and your complete inability to recognize it for what it is.

What a weird way to say earned scholarships... still I suppose not renting is what really tilts it is it?

[ghotihook]

What a weird way to say earned scholarships... still I suppose not renting is what really tilts it is it?

Don't worry next he will drill into your privilege of having parents and not being abusive. Anything above living on the streets is all privilege.

[Elegiac]

Don't worry next he will drill into your privilege of having parents and not being abusive. Anything above living on the streets is all privilege.

Congratulations - you've successfully discovered that people do not in fact have the same opportunities and until people are guaranteed a certain number of opportunities as a baseline said opportunities are, by definition, a privilege.

[Endus]

What a weird way to say earned scholarships...

How is "you didn't have to pay for college" in any way misleading? I never said your parents paid your tuition.

Not everyone has that opportunity. The point was, again, you presenting your privilege as if it were the norm that everyone experiences.

still I suppose not renting is what really tilts it is it?

Seriously can't understand that home ownership is well out of a huge sector of the workforce's reach, huh?

See above re; privilege.

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Don't worry next he will drill into your privilege of having parents and not being abusive. Anything above living on the streets is all privilege.

Look at you, coming so close to understanding what "privilege" means and yet somehow still not "getting it".

[Edge-]

still I suppose not renting is what really tilts it is it?

Just sayin, we never had a basement at my families home nor the ability to rent out anything. Having a home big enough to rent a room out to, much less a basement which affords some level of privacy to the renter (even if it doesn't have a bathroom/kitchen) isn't exactly a terribly common thing. Especially for folks who like, don't own homes and are renting small apartments or are already living in packed, multi-generational homes.

Nobody is saying you didn't work hard, I'm sure you did. But it's understanding that you didn't get where you were purely out of hard work, there were plenty of other factors outside your control that helped. Factors that many other people don't have the privilege of benefitting from.

[Glorious Leader]

Middle class? In America???

Yeah, ok buddy, stop living in 1953 and get with the present, the middle class died decades ago.

They can't actually question the distribution of resources within a society because that might MIGHT actually result in the slightest criticism of capital so it must be the poors fault. Its almost tautology, only the lazy can be poor because all the outcomes are perfect ergo the poor must be lazy as well. God cannot fail so it must be us that failed him.

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Nobody is saying you didn't work hard, I'm sure you did.

I'm sure bezos and gates and all those fuckers think they worked hard too and who knows maybe they did or do. It really is irrelevant. The particular poster you're replying to may not have that much wealth but at some point outcomes and resource distribution is clearly not simple a function meritocracy whatever the fuck that gets defined as. Actually for folks like him its tautological. The wealthy all earned their wealth and im wealthy so i earned my wealth.

[kamuimac]

You grew up in a family who owned their own home, a house that was oversized enough you could rent out the basement. By your own admission, you didn't have to pay for college.

Like I said; you're describing your own privilege, and your complete inability to recognize it for what it is.

oh yes - how dare his parents work hard to provide their kids with that.

like a good communist you for sure would strip everyone from every property their families got over generations for sake of lazy people.

the reason people get there is by hardwork and work ethics that they later teach their kids . its not priviledge - its 99% hard work of parents and grandparents.

it should be set as example to what everyone should aim at - not trying to shame him .

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They can't actually question the distribution of resources within a society because that might MIGHT actually result in the slightest criticism of capital so it must be the poors fault. Its almost tautology, only the lazy can be poor because all the outcomes are perfect ergo the poor must be lazy as well. God cannot fail so it must be us that failed him.

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on statistical level - yes its absolute truth and tautology

each statistics proves that

people who learn more in school get higher education and statisticaly earn more in life because of it

how do they learn more ? by not being lazy only putting X hours into learning insteady putting that X hours into playing games or spending time with friends.

there is no other way unless someone is a genius so is put in statistical extremes which makes him meaningless from statistical point of view.

same in work - statisctialy person who is diligent and is working hard is more likely to get promotion and earn more - or get better paying job either by swapping work place or getting raise. how they get there - by not being lazy .

[Muzjhath]

oh yes - how dare his parents work hard to provide their kids with that.

like a good communist you for sure would strip everyone from every property their families got over generations for sake of lazy people.

the reason people get there is by hardwork and work ethics that they later teach their kids . its not priviledge - its 99% hard work of parents and grandparents.

it should be set as example to what everyone should aim at - not trying to shame him .

A, someone doesn't know the difference between personal and private property.
B, the fact that everyone ought to have a support network is a given. A thing almost everyone here wishes everyone had. However, it is a thing not everyone does have. Had I been less privileged I'd have spent the past ten years homeless due to a heavy as fuck depression. Instead I had friends and family who helped me out.
I recognize this as a privilege and am thankful for it. I am thankful for now having a job and a mostly "normal" life. I do not take it for granted. Krakan takes it for granted and thinks growing up in a home where parents could let out rooms to others isn't a privilege. It is.
Even if it isn't a big one.

This isn't a one million dollar lone. But it is three hot meals a-day and clothes appropriate for the weather. Which in a capitalist world is a privilege. More so in America than in Europe.

[kamuimac]

The wealthy all earned their wealth and im wealthy so i earned my wealth.

most of people who are wealthy indeed earned their wealth .

first by learing dilegently and being in top of their class/school which let them get into best Uni possible for their level of learning.

then by finishing their Uni with top of year scores whinch then let them to get into best paying companies .

in work by being better at job / putting more hours then others / starting up their own business and beating competition .

you may hate it but statistically yes its exacly like that.

[Muzjhath]

people who learn more in school get higher education and statisticaly earn more in life because of it

how do they learn more ? by not being lazy only putting X hours into learning insteady putting that X hours into playing games or spending time with friends.

Also, this is mostly not true. Most people who really get ahead and super well of do it through contacts and nepotism.
Yes, Bill Gates "started Microsoft in a shedd", but he was also from a solidly upper middle or lower upper (or even middle upper) class family. So he could take the financial hit of a start-up.

A lot of very wealthy people become wealthy through partying with the right people. See one of the current POTUS Justices.

[kamuimac]

A, someone doesn't know the difference between personal and private property.
B, the fact that everyone ought to have a support network is a given. A thing almost everyone here wishes everyone had. However, it is a thing not everyone does have. Had I been less privileged I'd have spent the past ten years homeless due to a heavy as fuck depression. Instead I had friends and family who helped me out.
I recognize this as a privilege and am thankful for it. I am thankful for now having a job and a mostly "normal" life. I do not take it for granted. Krakan takes it for granted and thinks growing up in a home where parents could let out rooms to others isn't a privilege. It is.
Even if it isn't a big one.

This isn't a one million dollar lone. But it is three hot meals a-day and clothes appropriate for the weather. Which in a capitalist world is a privilege. More so in America than in Europe.

what you describe as privilege in your case is something that parents should teach their kids from when they are little - that having family/friends is extremly important in life. you were not special in this regards- thats how human societies work for millenia now - thats how humankind survived - by living in pack not as solitary predators. its not priviledge - its normal human behaviour .

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Also, this is mostly not true. Most people who really get ahead and super well of do it through contacts and nepotism.
Yes, Bill Gates "started Microsoft in a shedd", but he was also from a solidly upper middle or lower upper (or even middle upper) class family. So he could take the financial hit of a start-up.

A lot of very wealthy people become wealthy through partying with the right people. See one of the current POTUS Justices.

you are purposedly giving examples of extremes - which are meaningless. wealthy doesnt equal to multi bilionaire - i know for example a wealthy person who came from nothing and now owns 3 hair saloons and is moderately wealthy man - how he get there - by working extremely hard and extremly long hours , having talent and basicly sascrifiing his teen years and 20s to get there where he is now (he was working in his brother hair saloon since he was liek 14 - when we were fooling around he was goign straight after school to work , whle summers - work from morning till evening - thats how he got where he is now ) . or a girl who is a good busienss layer, started her own firm and is moderately wealthy atm due to how good clients she got over the years . why ? because she is good at what she is doing.

all those people have in common is puting ungodly amoutn of time into learning and practice to get there where they are

[Masark]

Also, this is mostly not true. Most people who really get ahead and super well of do it through contacts and nepotism.
Yes, Bill Gates "started Microsoft in a shedd", but he was also from a solidly upper middle or lower upper (or even middle upper) class family. So he could take the financial hit of a start-up.

Upper middle nothing.

His father was a partner at a large law firm (and president of the state bar association) and his mother was on the board of multiple major corporations. Both were decidedly multi-millionaires.

[Freighter]

I came from a rather poorer family not destitute by any means I ate three meals but we rented out our basement for a few years

Uh, sorry, what? Poorer family? Rented out your basement?

How do you have a house large enough to rent your basement out if you're poor?

My family is pretty well off and we didn't have even a room to rent out, let alone a whole basement, lol.

[Temp name]

its not priviledge - its 99% hard work of parents and grandparents.

But that *IS* privilege. You gaining something that you didn't earn in any way shape or form is privilige.

[Egomaniac]

I came from a rather poorer family not destitute by any means I ate three meals but we rented out our basement for a few years but by my mid teens we did better. I was expected to work from 14 and did so to help out.
.

So your family owned their own home, rented out the basement, and you ate three meals a day?

Sorry buttercup...but you were never poor.

[Muzjhath]

[QUOTE=kamuimac;53204680]what you describe as privilege in your case is something that parents should teach their kids from when they are little - that having family/friends is extremly important in life. you were not special in this regards- thats how human societies work for millenia now - thats how humankind survived - by living in pack not as solitary predators. its not priviledge - its normal /QUOTE]

Except that modern capitalism has ruined those relationships and structures.
A thing you keep arguing against.

[Yadryonych]

So your family owned their own home, rented out the basement, and you ate three meals a day?

Sorry buttercup...but you were never poor.

Having three meals a day is truly outrageous and nearly a Marie Antoinette level of privilege.

Gentries like this should be grateful for that we generously offer them being stripped of their wealth instead of straight-up guillotinising them

[Egomaniac]

Having three meals a day is truly outrageous and nearly a Marie Antoinette level of privilege.

Gentries like this should be grateful for that we generously offer them being stripped of their wealth instead of straight-up guillotinising them

I didn't say he was rich.

I just said he wasn't poor.

There's a really big middle area between those two points.