Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[ro9ue]

Yeah if you can buy gold you can buy any type of boost in game. Gladiator, Mythic raid kills, etc.

[panda040]

Yes i agree with you wholeheartedly. I have asked those that call it P2W when they say that it MATTERS, i asked why does it matter? What would change if BLIZZ reoved the token? and noone ever have any solutions, jsut seems they are butt hurt for whatever reason.
Because if Blizz removed the tokens and started to loose revenue from it that would definately be an impact on the game.

There is a very clear distinction.... if you farm gold in the game legitimately and use said gold to pay for boosts, or to obtain assistance from other players that is totally fine. Let me be clear, the pay to win aspect comes in when your PULL OUT YOUR CREDIT CARD and use that to purchase tokens to sell for gold or buy gold from a non ToS website.

[GreenJesus]

You can literally buy gold then buy a kill of the end boss on hardest difficulty. Can also buy gold and then buy mythic raid BoE gear with leech on it. If that isn't p2w I dont know what is.

[Lochton]

Yes i agree with you wholeheartedly. I have asked those that call it P2W when they say that it MATTERS, i asked why does it matter? What would change if BLIZZ reoved the token? and noone ever have any solutions, jsut seems they are butt hurt for whatever reason.
Because if Blizz removed the tokens and started to loose revenue from it that would definately be an impact on the game.

If Blizzard removed the token and boost, it would still be P2W according to some people in the thread, for Blizzard can still indirectly give you a currency..

[Kumorii]

You do of course understand how much gold prices have been fucked for the average player by the absurd amounts of gold that have become available to players through the token right?

Token doesn't generate gold, the prices are from WoD showering everyone with gold.

[Lochton]

There is a very clear distinction.... if you farm gold in the game legitimately and use said gold to pay for boosts, or to obtain assistance from other players that is totally fine. Let me be clear, the pay to win aspect comes in when your PULL OUT YOUR CREDIT CARD and use that to purchase tokens to sell for gold or buy gold from a non ToS website.

Aye, so, we're at the stage where we shouldn't be outraged for the game has been P2W since it was created, whether we see it so or not, but according to the arguments used, it is so.

[Rageonit]

There is a very clear distinction.... if you farm gold in the game legitimately and use said gold to pay for boosts, or to obtain assistance from other players that is totally fine. Let me be clear, the pay to win aspect comes in when your PULL OUT YOUR CREDIT CARD and use that to purchase tokens to sell for gold or buy gold from a non ToS website.

But why would it matter to YOU that they decided to pull out the credit card? Does the fact that someone paid for the achievement somehow diminish your own achievements? And if it does - does a player boosted by friends also diminish your achievements? If I take my 10 years old daughter to a raid she shouldn't be doing (because she's not good enough yet) and boost her to victory with my friends, will it diminish your achievement? Because surely I wouldn't want to hurt your feelings!
So someone pulled out their credit card (to "obtain assitance from other players", as you put it). So what? If they obtain if for a smile, is it that different?

[Blackmist]

I'm no longer sure there's a "win" to pay for...

Is standing around while other people kill a boss for you "winning"?

[GreenJesus]

Because nobody would buy gold from sellers before the token got introduced???????

Atleast Blizz earns from thier own product and not some farmer.

Please go to 1 again and start thinking.

The difference is that it was against the rules before and you risked getting banned. Wow tokens legalized pay to win.

[DechCJC]

No, pay to win means using real world money to buy ingame items that give you advantage to those that do not. You CAN buy boosts, but you can also not buy boosts and just play to get the same ilvl. Meaning their real world money is not giving them an advantage, If they could buy say an ilvl350 and mythic raid only dropped 345. Then it would be pay to win.

So just to be absolutely clear, if you could buy a full set of BIS mythic raid gear, that wouldn’t be P2W? Same if you could purchase rare mounts such as invincible or ashes?

[Lochton]

I'm no longer sure there's a "win" to pay for...

Is standing around while other people kill a boss for you "winning"?

Now we're thinking deep. I wouldn't call that winning. But then, that is not what people argue in this thread...

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So just to be absolutely clear, if you could buy a full set of BIS mythic raid gear, that wouldn’t be P2W? Same if you could purchase rare mounts such as invincible or ashes?

Well, that one is obvious, if you could directly buy that from the store, it would be P2W.

[DechCJC]

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Well, that one is obvious, if you could directly buy that from the store, it would be P2W.

Why? It’s available in game so why is it P2W? At least that’s what the going definition of P2W seems to be.

[m4xc4v413r4]

The moment you can purchase your way to any type of power advantage, it's Pay 2 Win, because you are able to use your money to get closer to victory.

Win what? Show me a single top PVP or PVE player that got there because he paid for it. You either know how to play or you don't you can't buy being better than you are. Paying for achivements and gear isn't winning/victory.

[Rageonit]

Why? It’s available in game so why is it P2W?

It's not Pay2Win, it's Pay2GetBISSet. The "win" part is only in your head, because for some reason you see a set of items as a "win". Win over whom, exactly? Who did you have to beat?

[Ninix]

Yes, it is.
1) You can use $$$ to buy a token which is equal to WOW gold.
2) WOW gold can buy you: BOE gear and boosts (more gear).
You can basically use $$$ to buy raid achieves (AOTC, KSM) and gear now.
Blizz does nothing to stop the boosting because it drives token sales (goto line 1)

Just getting gear via boosts (meaning someone else got there before you) is not winning in WoW

hence no P2W.

[Lochton]

Why? It’s available in game so why is it P2W? At least that’s what the going definition of P2W seems to be.

Because Blizzard would be directly generating the items. That is the core of P2W. The ability to buy armor for clearing content, boosts of stats, and the likes.

This is why the boost (the service) is tilting on P2W because it grants you levels and gear, but it still leaves you actually having to play the current content - so a paid catch-up in a 16-year-old game.

And by people in this thread's argument, the token is P2W because you indirectly gain a currency from another player (which is apparently a Pay2Win thing) to use on whatever.

[DechCJC]

It's not Pay2Win, it's Pay2GetBISSet. The "win" part is only in your head, because for some reason you see a set of items as a "win". Win over whom, exactly? Who did you have to beat?

So it’s not pay to win to buy gear? Just to be sure we’re on the same page.

[panda040]

Aye, so, we're at the stage where we shouldn't be outraged for the game has been P2W since it was created, whether we see it so or not, but according to the arguments used, it is so.

No I don't think anyone here is advocating for against ToS gold selling/buying. I think blizzard should enact harsher punishments to stymie that. As I have said from the beginning of this thread, its pay to win the moment i can convert real world cash into in game currency. In classic, tbc, wrath etc gold was solely generated by the players. Obviously bots were a problem and still are, and should be dealt with. This is not a hard concept.

[uuuhname]

sure you can spend money to cut the time needed to level and get some gear but unless you mean spend money on gold to get into mythic raids or high level keys no lol. this game is not pay to win in the slightest.

[DechCJC]

Because Blizzard would be directly generating the items. That is the core of P2W. The ability to buy armor for clearing content, boosts of stats, and the likes.

This is why the boost (the service) is tilting on P2W because it grants you levels and gear, but it still leaves you actually having to play the current content - so a paid catch-up in a 16-year-old game.

And by people in this thread's argument, the token is P2W because you indirectly gain a currency from another player (which is apparently a Pay2Win thing) to use on whatever.

But that contradicts what the general definition of P2W seems to be in this thread.

I do believe that buying gear is P2W, but I don’t see how anyone can justify saying P2W only exists if it’s not achievable in game and at the same time say buying gear is P2W.

For most people, there seems to be a clear line between buying a boost and buying gear, but why? They both fit the same definition for or against P2W.

It just comes across that people are swindling definitions to their PoVs convenience.