Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[Darkeon]

Well, the only advantage it supposedly has is losing out on content. That's gonna be a hard sell.

That's like saying that in FIFA Ultimate team you are missing out on the joy of playing though a plethora of matches, to purchase a shitton of booster packs and therefore the Whales are the real losers when it comes to time/value spent. lol

[Jester Joe]

If you can't see how spending $60 to skip FIFTY LEVELS OF CONTENT is an advantage then there really is absolutely no point in me trying to explain it. Again.

Because you miss out on learning the class, leveling professions, literally all the gold you would make from genuinely leveling.

But I mean-

I'm not admitting anything. I've explained numerous times why it is a form of p2w. You are just opting not to read it because it doesn't fit your narrative.
Your comments really just boil down to "It's not pay to win because I said so."

This is oddly fitting for a response back.

[rhorle]

That's not an item. Didn't think I'd have to say that. And there is no advantage to that.

So Blizzard selling a buff that increases damage by 1000 wouldn't be pay to win because it isn't an item. Buying power isn't just restricted to items and levels certainly to give an advantage. Lets be real here Blizzard selling Heroic raid gear would be pay to win even though it is not an advantage over Mythic raid gear.

Buying levels is still buying power. The advantage it gives might be minuscule at end game but skipping 50 levels still provides an advantage in-game.

[huth]

It DOES grant you an advantage over players not spending money wtf? You are literally paying to skip 50 levels worth of content that other people would have to grind through to get to the same point. I can't believe I need to explain this so many times.

Again, that's an advantage only over newly made characters. Not even a big one, either.
Any established character is likely still ahead of the boosted one.

Besides, skipping content isn't what i'd consider an advantage. Quite the opposite.

[rhorle]

By your own admission, the power you gain from a level boost is completely irrelevant. I don't know why you want to waffle the definition of P2W to include level boosts; if it's meaningless power, why bother even including it? Like I said in my previous post, these half-assed definitions simply erode the actual definition of the word and make it that much easier for people to make very poor generalizations about how the game works.

Why bother including it? Because as you keep trying to tell others we can't redefine words simply because of our feelings. It is weird that you keep admitting to doing just that while still telling others not to. It doesn't erode the actual definition of the word to include everything that falls under that definition. People will make generalizations about stuff regardless of you excluding things based on your feelings. Lol.

[TheRevenantHero]

Again, that's an advantage only over newly made characters. Not even a big one, either.
Any established character is likely still ahead of the boosted one.

Besides, skipping content isn't what i'd consider an advantage. Quite the opposite.

So because you don't think it's an advantage that means it's not one. Ok. I'm glad we have you to be the end all be all of what is an advantage and what isn't. /s

[rhorle]

You can't get a headstart over other players. The boost always goes to old content. Don't try to twist that.

A second character. A new player. No one misses out on experience playing the class. The way you play while leveling is different then the way you play at end game. Professions always have to done from scratch and with the way they work now you don't have to touch old expansions unless you want to. You don't miss out on anything. Progress made towards literally anything can still be worked on while also being able to enjoy the current content.

You keep trying to split hairs for something that is a clear advantage. Time is money right? Saving time through buying power, which levels are, is clearly pay to win.

[Jester Joe]

So Blizzard selling a buff that increases damage by 1000 wouldn't be pay to win because it isn't an item. Buying power isn't just restricted to items and levels certainly to give an advantage. Lets be real here Blizzard selling Heroic raid gear would be pay to win even though it is not an advantage over Mythic raid gear.

Buying levels is still buying power. The advantage it gives might be minuscule at end game but skipping 50 levels still provides an advantage in-game.

Again, why do I have to keep repeating this.

You miss out on the gold (WHICH HEY, YOU CAN USE TO BUY A BOOST IN GAME!) from leveling.
Experience.
Professions.

Literally any form of progress in older areas in case you ever want to go do content back then. (Molten Front for example).


And honestly, you're not making any points if you have to come in midway to go "BUT A BUFF" when I was specifically using the fact that the other poster used item for his own description. On top of that, you're also intentionally making an extreme point to try to argue which is just silly.

[Relapses]

Why bother including it? Because as you keep trying to tell others we can't redefine words simply because of our feelings. It is weird that you keep admitting to doing just that while still telling others not to. It doesn't erode the actual definition of the word to include everything that falls under that definition. People will make generalizations about stuff regardless of you excluding things based on your feelings. Lol.

Hello? is this thing on? Irrelevant power doesn't fucking matter so it shouldn't be included with the definition of P2W. Fuck man.

[Jester Joe]

A second character. A new player. No one misses out on experience playing the class. The way you play while leveling is different then the way you play at end game. Professions always have to done from scratch and with the way they work now you don't have to touch old expansions unless you want to. You don't miss out on anything. Progress made towards literally anything can still be worked on while also being able to enjoy the current content.

You keep trying to split hairs for something that is a clear advantage. Time is money right? Saving time through buying power, which levels are, is clearly pay to win.

I've had a vast majority of my hunters BM rotation by level 30.

so try again.

[Doffen]

But now we're back in the open territory where many do not see that as P2W, for it is a catch-up mechanic, and you do not really win much as you are just put at the doorstep of the current content, where you are just going to start the winning.

I would just tilt it on P2W but only barely.

I thought we were in the rabbit hole?

And NOW you are saying we are in the open territory?? I rather want that!

[huth]

Buying levels is still buying power. The advantage it gives might be minuscule at end game but skipping 50 levels still provides an advantage in-game.

If those levels were on top of the normal ones. But as is, it only puts you on par with a character that has been neglected since early BfA. That's not P2W, that's not even P2 be adequate.

[TheRevenantHero]

Again, why do I have to keep repeating this.

You miss out on the gold (WHICH HEY, YOU CAN USE TO BUY A BOOST IN GAME!) from leveling.
Experience.
Professions.

Literally any form of progress in older areas in case you ever want to go do content back then. (Molten Front for example).


And honestly, you're not making any points if you have to come in midway to go "BUT A BUFF" when I was specifically using the fact that the other poster used item for his own description. On top of that, you're also intentionally making an extreme point to try to argue which is just silly.

So because you think people are missing out, that means it's not an advantage? You're literally using your opinions to try and disprove facts.

[rhorle]

You can move to new content, like literally everyone else who was sitting at 50 for the expansion previously. But don't try to act as if being level 50 is "new content" currently when it was the cap for BfA. Especially when there's nearly 2 years of time to get to said cap, and then buying the new expansion lets you get to that anyway.

So if I buy Mythic raid gear I won't get an advantage because I will be like everyone else who is sitting at the Mythic gear level right? You keep dismissing anything that doesn't agree with you and rather then engaging out right claim people don't have an intention of actually discussing with you. Why so dismissive? Buying levels is still buying power even if it only goes to X instead of Y.

Just like buying gear would still be buying power even it it doesn't allow you to buy up to the item level cap.

[huth]

So because you don't think it's an advantage that means it's not one. Ok. I'm glad we have you to be the end all be all of what is an advantage and what isn't. /s

No, i do not see it as an advantage because you've never actually made any effort to explain why it would be one. You just keep on asserting it is, despite it leaving that character considerably inferior to a regular level 50.

[Jester Joe]

So because you think people are missing out, that means it's not an advantage? You're literally using your opinions to try and disprove facts.

You have still failed to address the advantage of gold, experience playing the class, professions, and progress you make through older zones by leveling.

So if I buy Mythic raid gear I won't get an advantage because I will be like everyone else who is sitting at the Mythic gear level right? You keep dismissing anything that doesn't agree with you and rather then engaging out right claim people don't have an intention of actually discussing with you. Why so dismissive? Buying levels is still buying power even if it only goes to X instead of Y.

Just like buying gear would still be buying power even it it doesn't allow you to buy up to the item level cap.

Again, no one cares about your extreme examples to try to get a "gotcha" moment. You're not making any points here by dishonestly debating.

[Lochton]

I thought we were in the rabbit hole?

And NOW you are saying we are in the open territory?? I rather want that!

Hah.. The open territory is just the shit ton of different opinions of P2W...

The rabbit hole is if we are digging deeper into crap like "indirect P2W"..

Glad you like the open territory.. You may roam free now.

[Cyranis]

And if the token didn't exist and people bought gold from a Chinese farmer and did the same shit... then what? Still P2W?

Those Chinese farmers still exist, btw. They just go by the name "boosting community" these days.

It's not P2W just because Blizzard gets a cut from something people would be doing anyway. :^)

Ya, that's exactly what makes it pay2win. Bliz is complicit. They know exactly what sort of behavior it encourages, and they money is too good for them to do anything about it.

If bliz didn't allow gold sales boosting, and stopped selling tokens it would just be cheaters and illegal activity, not p2w.

[TheRevenantHero]

No, i do not see it as an advantage because you've never actually made any effort to explain why it would be one. You just keep on asserting it is, despite it leaving that character considerably inferior to a regular level 50.

I literally posted the definition of the word advantage. Just because you chose to ignore it doesn't mean I haven't explained it.

- - - Updated - - -

You have still failed to address the advantage of gold, experience playing the class, professions, and progress you make through older zones by leveling.



Again, no one cares about your extreme examples to try to get a "gotcha" moment. You're not making any points here by dishonestly debating.

So because it doesn't give you gold and profession levels....that means it's not an advantage? That's so utterly asinine and such an aggressive moving of the goalposts that I legitimately have absolutely no idea how to address it.

[rhorle]

Again, why do I have to keep repeating this. You miss out on the gold (WHICH HEY, YOU CAN USE TO BUY A BOOST IN GAME!) from leveling. Experience. Professions. Literally any form of progress in older areas in case you ever want to go do content back then. (Molten Front for example). And honestly, you're not making any points if you have to come in midway to go "BUT A BUFF" when I was specifically using the fact that the other poster used item for his own description. On top of that, you're also intentionally making an extreme point to try to argue which is just silly.

You don't miss out on the gold because you can still go back and get it. Even easier when you out level the content. Right? Professions are contained to the expansion and the only relevant one is the current expansion. So you don't miss out on anything you can't go back and do. Also gaining gold at level cap usually makes it easier to buy mats and old expansion mats are usually high priced.

You don't need to keep repeating things I countered in my response. Lol. Why it is that you can't actually discuss anything but your opinion? I am not making an extreme point and it doesn't matter if another poster used item as well. You are still trying to push that buying power (which is what pay to win is) requires an item. Don't make a silly argument if you don't want to be questioned on your own statements.