1. #1

    Wuhan lab theory is created by same people who made Iraq WMD claims 2 decades ago

    On May 23, the Wall Street Journal published an article titled “Intelligence on Sick Staff at Wuhan Lab Fuels Debate on Covid-19 Origin.” Citing unnamed “current and former officials,” it claimed that researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology “went to hospital in November 2019, shortly before confirmed outbreak” of COVID-19.

    Two days later, on May 25, Health and Human Services Secretary Xavier Becerra, speaking at the United Nations World Health Assembly, demanded a “transparent” investigation into the origins of COVID-19.

    The next day, On May 26, US President Joe Biden called on the “Intelligence Community” to investigate whether COVID-19 arose “from a laboratory accident” and “report back to me in 90 days.”

    * snip *

    The lead author of the Journal piece, Michael R. Gordon, was the same man who, along with Judith Miller, wrote the September 8, 2002 article falsely asserting that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein was seeking to build a nuclear weapon.

    * snip *
    This was a short quote from article. Entire article that goes in more details: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/202.../wuha-j02.html

    I wonder why all major western news sources fail to notice that it is the same people pushing propaganda today who were pushing WMD propaganda 20 years ago. Do you think media today is just incompetent or they intentionally don't want to dig into US propaganda?
    "Those who can convince you to believe absurdities can convince you to commit atrocities." ~Voltaire
    I feel the above truly reflect what is happening in the US and its allies, or has been happening for some time.

  2. #2
    well thankfully most media at the US at least has been consistent on pushing against the laboratory theory. hell even this recent "investigation" is just that, an investigation into the possibility of COVID coming from there. it's not a confirming or denying but of course one particular strain of political thinking needs to blame someone for COVID even though they don't take it seriously but it's also China's fault because... reasons.

  3. #3
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    No they didn't create the theory, they just talked about it.

    Also you should judge theories based on their *explanatory power* and not based on the fallacy that the people involved determine whether the explanation makes sense.
    Optimism! (HumanProgress.org)

  4. #4
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    well thankfully most media at the US at least has been consistent on pushing against the laboratory theory. hell even this recent "investigation" is just that, an investigation into the possibility of COVID coming from there. it's not a confirming or denying but of course one particular strain of political thinking needs to blame someone for COVID even though they don't take it seriously but it's also China's fault because... reasons.
    it's a Chinese lab-created hoax
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    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    it's a Chinese lab-created hoax
    pretty much, I just fail to see how it is in China's interest to do such a thing to begin with.

  6. #6
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    pretty much, I just fail to see how it is in China's interest to do such a thing to begin with.
    Did they claim China released it intentionally? That's separate from the theory that it was the result of an unintended mistake.
    Last edited by PC2; 2021-06-02 at 08:17 PM.
    Optimism! (HumanProgress.org)

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Did they claim China released it intentionally? That's separate from the theory that it was the result of an unintended mistake.
    who is "they"?

  8. #8
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    who is "they"?
    The authors of the article. That's what the thread is about. Even though it ought to be about the competing explanations, their merit as well as the gaps in each theory.
    Optimism! (HumanProgress.org)

  9. #9
    Meanwhile China crippled the Australian Government servers when they wanted to investigate into it last year...

  10. #10
    As usual, people are really good at seeing what they want to see, and ignoring any facts they don't want to see.

  11. #11
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agm114r View Post
    As usual, people are really good at seeing what they want to see, and ignoring any facts they don't want to see.
    That applies to the wet market theory as well unless you can show which "facts" prove the origins of Covid-19. All I've seen is interpretations of facts and no empirical proof that confirms any theory.
    Optimism! (HumanProgress.org)

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    That applies to the wet market theory as well unless you can show which "facts" prove the origins of Covid-19. All I've seen is interpretations of facts and no empirical proof that confirms any theory.
    See, you just assumed what 'facts' I was talking about, when I was making a general comment about people's obvious biases in various directions here. Where in what I said did I say anything specific for or against the OP's or anyone's post? Nowhere.

    This isn't discussion, it's just an extended version of "Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not!" Discussion requires actual thoughts of possible alternatives. That's not in this thread anywhere. One side says X, and the other says Y. X and Y don't meet in the middle or otherwise share anything.

    Pretty standard MMO-Champion. It's pretty absurd, really.

  13. #13
    World is out to get China!

    All the China loving "people" went berserk over people calling it China virus! The same people have no problem calling "Brazil variant, India variant, SA variant" etc..

    I guess we will find out the truth about China Virus eventually.

  14. #14
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agm114r View Post
    See, you just assumed what 'facts' I was talking about, when I was making a general comment about people's obvious biases in various directions here. Where in what I said did I say anything specific for or against the OP's or anyone's post? Nowhere.

    This isn't discussion, it's just an extended version of "Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not!" Discussion requires actual thoughts of possible alternatives. That's not in this thread anywhere. One side says X, and the other says Y. X and Y don't meet in the middle or otherwise share anything.

    Pretty standard MMO-Champion. It's pretty absurd, really.
    You are right, I apologize. I assumed you were just one of the people who assumes authority figures are correct and mindlessly follows the consensus without proof. I've noticed a lot of people get really defensive about it, it's almost like they take it personally if you question the most popular or prevailing theory.
    Optimism! (HumanProgress.org)

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    You are right, I apologize. I assumed you were just one of the people who assumes authority figures are correct and mindlessly follows the consensus without proof. I've noticed a lot of people get really defensive about it, it's almost like they take it personally if you question the most popular or prevailing theory.
    The prevailing theory of wet market or human interactions with an animal are based on a history of that happening with that virus family. It is not based on thin air, the caveat has always been that it's the most likely scenario not the definite answer. The odds are we will never know for sure because the US pulled all their observers from that region to save money and China is China and they aren't going to be transparent.

    While I would love to I cannot blame the Chinese government, an investigation would take years and no outcome would not satisfy anyone or quell conspiracy theorists..

  16. #16
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    It's been sourced to China, the exact cause is unknown. At least outside of China. You'd think the Chinese government would be more competent in knowing how it originated, but they are either playing dumb or just are dumb.

    Meanwhile prevailing conspiracies being spread by the Chinese government within China are that the US created it then maliciously released it in China.

    The folks who came up with the WMD theory have also been right about a lot of things. It's why the only thing OP can do to discredit them is talk about statements made 20 years ago that turned out to not be true.

    So how about we talk about the conspiracies being spread by Chinese state media? Organizations that have been spreading anti west propaganda since... media has existed.
    "Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them." -John Oliver
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    I don't care if he committed tax fraud. Scoring political victories and crushing the aspirations of your political opponents is more important than adhering to moral principles.
    Knadra finally just admitting Trumpkins care more about political victories than morals.

  17. #17
    This theory is more credible than most people think. I can't speak to the authenticity of this guy so take it with a grain of salt.


  18. #18
    This is a quite misleading attack by the OP on media. The claims about WMDs came from military intelligence. We didn't go to war because of an article in a newspaper, that's not how the US military operates. Same for Wuhan, the Biden administration has it's own large governmental investigation into the source that going on. Those ware both too large and important of Oval Office topics that they are not something that will be left to a WSJ article. So the entire, 'why do you think media lies all the time', 'why is media propaganda', etc. is gaslighting.

    People that don't like the media reporting their misdeeds have aggressively attacked media orgs with false claims that they always lie or are incorrect far more often than they are. It's easy to understand why they have done that. You can read all major credible media outlets (Reuters, AP, etc.) all day and very rarely (under 1%) read info that needs corrections. So people trying to make these claims have to stretch the truth or try to cherry-pick the rare error to try to support their argument that all media lies. Go to Reuters dot com right now and find a single article of an event that is fabricated, a lie, false, etc. The closest they came was when the IDF intentionally gave misleading info to news outlets that a ground invasion of Gaza was starting (the IDF did this on purpose hoping to drive Hamas fighters into tunnels right before bombing them), so some legit news outlets reported what they were told by the IDF, it turned out to not be true a few hours later and the news outlets that did report what the IDF said rescinded it. Not sure how you can blame media for that, and that's not the media intentionally giving false info. In fact the media didn't lie because their reports were "The IDF claims the ground invasion has begun", and they quickly corrected that as soon as they found out they were misinformed. They will also likely be more leery of info from the IDF in the future. But this was used by the media haters grasping at straws to try to say that media intentionally lies and everything they say is false.

    It's also important to note that if you go to Infowars, OAN, etc. these are not true news organizations. They do not have investigative reporters that could ever find anything like Watergate if they tried. Why do you think someone claiming to be a media outlet doesn't need investigative reporters? That is the #1 flag for recognizing propaganda outlets like OAN or Infowars that falsely claim to be news outlets. They aren't reporting news whatsoever, and can't, because they don't have anyone doing investigating to actually find NEWS. They are simply parroting political propaganda. If a media outlet isn't finding anything out themselves since they don't have reporters that ever leave the desk, their 'news' is just scouring the Internet for edgy topics to pander their base. Real news orgs like Reuters and AP still send journalists to Africa, to the Middle East, to South America, embed for months to find the real story, and report it credibly. That's real news. CNN still has some but eliminated many of them in budget cuts which is why they aren't at the top of esteemed news orgs like they once were (although still far more reliable than the right paints them). This is also why shows like Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity, anything on OAN or Infowars, are purely opinion/propaganda and not news. Be careful not to confuse the 2. So many people today think news=news, so that must mean a channel that started a year ago and has no investigative reporters like OAN=AP or the Washington Post, who have many decades of proven and credible professional journalism. Their role as the Fourth Estate is critically important in finding illegal or immoral activity that would otherwise go undetected like Watergate, or the Monica Lewinksy scandal. It's not difficult to understand why some of the people doing those immoral/illegal things don't like the media reporting them and call them liars.

  19. #19
    Old God Yunru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdbond View Post
    World is out to get China!

    All the China loving "people" went berserk over people calling it China virus! The same people have no problem calling "Brazil variant, India variant, SA variant" etc..

    I guess we will find out the truth about China Virus eventually.
    CCPV -- China communist party virus

    That is more accurate.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    That applies to the wet market theory as well unless you can show which "facts" prove the origins of Covid-19. All I've seen is interpretations of facts and no empirical proof that confirms any theory.
    Its more like that lab was a BIO weapon production and the lack of founds made the virus excape out of the lab.

    Here is some history:
    https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2...llpox-bird-flu
    Don't sweat the details!!!

  20. #20
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    This isn't the forum for theory-based discussion.
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