[Speculation] Tinker Class for 10.0 Dragon Isles

[TheRevenantHero]

You're the one that's confused. If we're talking about class fantasy, we're talking about the functions of a class. Engineering cannot perform ANY functions of a class, so how can it fulfill a class fantasy?

You're talking about lore for some reason, which is essentially meaningless. People don't play lore, they play classes. If someone observes Gazlowe piloting a mech into battle and wants to play that particular fantasy, engineering does not fulfill that fantasy in any meaningful way.



Who says that a Tinker would need engineering? Based purely on the class archetype, a Tinker should instinctively be able to build and construct machines, just like Mages instinctively know magic, and Monks instinctively know martial arts.

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Uh it has everything to do with gameplay mechanics. If someone says I want to tank in a mech the way the Tinker hero in WC3 tanked in a mech, or the way Mekkatorque tanks in a mech in Battle of Daz'lar, or the way Gazlowe fights in a mech during Island Expeditions, there is NOTHING to fulfill that fantasy. They certainly can't fulfill that fantasy with engineering.

I don't know why I even bother. You're incapable of using anything other than strawman arguments and double standards. Just because you saw ONE NPC do it doesn't mean that players are going to do it. I saw Sylvanas solo Bolvar and summon all kinds of magical chains to restrain him. I guess that means hunters are getting that ability soon!

See how asinine that sounds?

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There are 3, Mechagon Tinkering, gnomish engineering, and goblin engineering. All 3 different masteries then require special training or equipment. Who's to say a Tinker class isn't the same?

And you answered your own question. Engineers already fulfill what you're suggesting. We don't need tinkers.

[Triceron]

And you answered your own question. Engineers already fulfill what you're suggesting. We don't need tinkers.

And no one has said Tinkers were needed.

Tinkers being a possible future class is quite different than saying they are needed.

[Swnem]

Well, i don't know what the next expansion will be, but i have been hoping for tinkers for 4 expansions now.
Engineering definitly doesn't scratch that itch as it's mostly incomplete and useless. Being able to throw a bomb ever X minutes and using a combat res item or gliding in goblin wings does not in any way satisfy the Tinker combat fantasy.

I don't know if they will do them, but if they did, i'd forgive all the BS they've done to the game in the last years.

[Varx]

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And you answered your own question. Engineers already fulfill what you're suggesting. We don't need tinkers.

How, you said that there hasn't been proof of a lower form of tinkering as to justify the existence of tinker and engineers, the former being the more advanced.

So, having those 3 examples is proof that there can be different layers, with the Tinker Class possible being the most elite.

[TheRevenantHero]

And no one has said Tinkers were needed.

Tinkers being a possible future class is quite different than saying they are needed.

I'd rather we get a class that's unique like Dragonsworn. Tinkers are just a class version of engineering.

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How, you said that there hasn't been proof of a lower form of tinkering as to justify the existence of tinker and engineers, the former being the more advanced.

So, having those 3 examples is proof that there can be different layers, with the Tinker Class possible being the most elite.

There is 100% no evidence in lore or gameplay that says that engineers build the items and tinkers use them. That is completely your headcanon.

[Brazel MMO]

Cool story. I too like to come up with scenarios while in the shower.

In before Belluar reads this and has a 15 minute video.

Lmao "is blizz RUINING the dragon isles?"

[Varx]

I'd rather we get a class that's unique like Dragonsworn. Tinkers are just a class version of engineering.

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There is 100% no evidence in lore or gameplay that says that engineers build the items and tinkers use them. That is completely your headcanon.

Not saying its fact, just saying it can be spined like that since currently engineers cant fight baddies the same way a warrior can.

[Teriz]

I don't know why I even bother. You're incapable of using anything other than strawman arguments and double standards. Just because you saw ONE NPC do it doesn't mean that players are going to do it. I saw Sylvanas solo Bolvar and summon all kinds of magical chains to restrain him. I guess that means hunters are getting that ability soon!

Except it’s more than one NPC, it’s pretty much every prominent Goblin and Gnome in the game.

Mekkatorque rides a mech on Brokenshore.
Gazlowe and Noggenfogger pilot mechs in Durator.
Thermaplugg pilots a mech in Gnomeregan.
Mags has a mech in Orgrimmar.
Razdunk pilots a mech in MotherLODE.
King Mechagon pilots a mech in Mechagon.
Gallywix pilots a mech in the lost Isles and against Mekkatorque in BoD.
Razak and Gazlowe pilot mechs in Island Expeditions.
Blackfuse piloted a mech in SoO.

Etc.

And that’s not even including the Draenei...

Further we also have the WC3 and HotS heroes who showcase unique Tinker abilities. None of those abilities exist in engineering. The last 3 WoW expansion classes were derived from WC3 heroes. Why wouldn’t Blizzard derive a 4th expansion class from that source?

See how asinine that sounds?

You mean you lying about how often and how many Goblins and Gnomes pilot mechs in WoW?

Yes, it’s very asinine. Why are you doing it?

[Raetary]

And you answered your own question. Engineers already fulfill what you're suggesting. We don't need tinkers.

But they don't?
Unless engineering replaces my talents and abilities with brand new ones. (but last i checked that wasn't the case.)

Which is what people want when they say they want a Tinkers class.
Everyone is aware that Tinkers are engineers, so idk why people keep repeating that as if its some grand argument against them.
It's not, engineering as a profession does not have an impact on a Tinker class.

Engineering as a profession would still exist just fine and its current existence does not prevent a class themed around it to exist.
The Tinker PC would simply be an engineer that decided to use their engineering skill for good, which would have no effect on the profession as people can pick up engineering without it becoming their primary persona.

[TheRevenantHero]

Except it’s more than one NPC, it’s pretty much every prominent Goblin and Gnome in the game.

Mekkatorque rides a mech on Brokenshore.
Gazlowe and Noggenfogger pilot mechs in Durator.
Thermaplugg pilots a mech in Gnomeregan.
Mags has a mech in Orgrimmar.
Razdunk pilots a mech in MotherLODE.
King Mechagon pilots a mech in Mechagon.
Gallywix pilots a mech in the lost Isles and against Mekkatorque in BoD.
Razak and Gazlowe pilot mechs in Island Expeditions.
Blackfuse piloted a mech in SoO.

Etc.

And that’s not even including the Draenei...

Further we also have the WC3 and HotS heroes who showcase unique Tinker abilities. None of those abilities exist in engineering. The last 3 WoW expansion classes were derived from WC3 heroes. Why wouldn’t Blizzard derive a 4th expansion class from that source?



You mean you lying about how often and how many Goblins and Gnomes pilot mechs in WoW?

Yes, it’s very asinine. Why are you doing it?

I haven't lied about anything. Every NPC you listed are ENGINEERS. Thank you for further showing tinker and engineer are the same thing

[Teriz]

I haven't lied about anything. Every NPC you listed are ENGINEERS. Thank you for further showing tinker and engineer are the same thing

This is semantic nonsense that doesn’t mean anything and is irrelevant to the reality of the situation. A Tinker is a type of engineer, so what’s your point? Engineering (the profession) still doesn’t fulfill the class fantasy. Tinker abilities are still unavailable for players to use. Your argument here is like saying that since Hunters can hunt Demons, then we already had a “Demon Hunter” class.

[Revamp Man]

Ok who said his name three times

[TheRevenantHero]

This is semantic nonsense that doesn’t mean anything and is irrelevant to the reality of the situation. A Tinker is a type of engineer, so what’s your point? Engineering (the profession) still doesn’t fulfill the class fantasy. Tinker abilities are still unavailable for players to use. Your argument here is like saying that since Hunters can hunt Demons, then we already had a “Demon Hunter” class.

HILARIOUS that you accuse me of semantics when that is pretty much the basis for every single argument you've ever had on these forums. There are no alleged tinker characters in WoW that have spells that can't be replicated by another class or an engineering item. I know you'll bring up WC3 but it's literally irrelevant because it's a different game that came out over 15 years ago. HotS isn't a valid example either.

And your demon hunter example is ESPECIALLY asinine and is not at all similar to anything I've said. Tinkers and engineers accomplish the same fantasy. Just because engineer doesn't have spells doesn't mean they don't fulfill the fantasy of a tinker.

[Triceron]

I'd rather we get a class that's unique like Dragonsworn. Tinkers are just a class version of engineering.

And there's nothing wrong with that?

I'm not quite sure why you are trying to dismiss them as not being needed, when none of the classes we have gotten in expansions were ever needed either.

Did we need Death Knights, Monks, Demon Hunters and what you suggest as Dragonsworn? No. None of them are needed, so it's a non-argument to dismiss the Tinker on the same basis.

We all got them because Blizzard deemed them interesting enough to make into classes. I see no reason to dismiss a Tinker on the basis that we have Engineering or on a basis that 'it's not needed'.

Just because *you* rather have a Dragonsworn doesn't really mean other classes *aren't needed*.

[TheRevenantHero]

And there's nothing wrong with that?

I'm not quite sure why you are trying to dismiss them as not being needed, when none of the classes we have gotten in expansions were ever needed either.

Did we need Death Knights, Monks, Demon Hunters and what you suggest as Dragonsworn? No. None of them are needed, so it's a non-argument to dismiss the Tinker on the same basis.

We all got them because Blizzard deemed them interesting enough to make into classes. I see no reason to dismiss a Tinker on the basis that we have Engineering or on a basis that 'it's not needed'.

Just because *you* rather have a Dragonsworn doesn't really mean other classes *aren't needed*.

The difference is that tinkers would be a lazy fucking class since they would literally just be a class version of engineer. Turning a profession into a class is exceptionally idiotic and Blizzard would be better off creating something more unique instead of phoning things in like they have for the entirety of Shadowlands so far.

[Hydro-Djinn]

Tinker
Warcraft 3 (2002, original appearance)
Warcraft RPG (2003, playable class)
World of Warcraft aka Vanilla (2004, engineering having both a Gnome and Goblin variant, and Goblins were menat to be a playable race)
Warcraft RPG (2005, playable class)
World of Warcraft TCG (2004-2013, recurring allies that were tinkers)
Heroes of the Storm (2014, Gazlowe who is a tinker and is a recreation of his Warcraft 3 self)
Battle for Azeroth (2018, which contained: Mekkatorque as a tinker boss in Dazaar'alor, the mech suit fight between Gallywix and Mekkatorque, the npc tinker teams for island expeditions, The Motherlode which is a tinker-themed dungeon)

If one thinks a tinker class would be too silly since engineering exists, lets just answer it with a question: Can a tank in a raid enter a mech suit through the use of engineering?

[Triceron]

The difference is that tinkers would be a lazy fucking class since they would literally just be a class version of engineer. Turning a profession into a class is exceptionally idiotic and Blizzard would be better off creating something more unique instead of phoning things in like they have for the entirety of Shadowlands so far.

You are aware that considering the path Blizzard has headed, even if they made a Dragonsworn class, it'd still be fucking lazy and half-assed, right? If they can't even do a Shadowlands Covenant system right, then why are things going to change with Dragonsworn?

I mean, I totally get your sentiment that Blizzard is lazy and totally missed on certain features, but it really has nothing to do with Tinkers lacking creativity or innovation. Blizzard hasn't done anything interesting with the Engineering profession for years now. The most interesting thing they added to the game was Artifacts, and that was what started us down this whole Borrowed Powered bullshit.

A better argument is to ask for Blizzard to stop being lazy. I think you're just using the Tinker as a scapegoat for the rest of Blizzard's creative problems, and you're mixing up what you think is uninteresting with the actual flaws with Blizzard lacking any real creativity for new features. If the problem is they're lazy, then a Dragonsworn isn't going to fix that problem.

[Aucald]

As per usual, let's drop the rolling argument about whether the Tinker (or any other class) is or isn't viable in WoW as a whole, and instead discuss the concept in the milieu of a possible Dragon Isles-centered expansion or set-piece.

[Teriz]

If we’re looking at this practically, I think a Tinker class makes more sense in a Yrel/Lightbound expansion, than a Dragon Isles expansion. You can still pull in Undermine in a Lightbound expansion since (once again) the Lightbound are a magi-tech based antagonist, and we have Lightforged Draenei who can build war frames and Goblins and Gnomes seemingly working together after Mechagon which could facilitate the ability to bring Titan tech into the mix.

Yrel’s avatar in that update is a potential hint that Yrel and the Lightbound are next.

[Hydro-Djinn]

For a Dragon Isles expansion, based on its past history, I would say its something related to old gods and the naga. So a very watery themed expansion. The only issue with that is it might feel like a retread of BFA which was about old gods, naga, kul tiras (a water themed nation), and island hopping. I feel if there was distinction to be made, it would require going underwater more. Now before I get metaphorically savaged by sharks because of blood in the water, I don't mean literal underwater combat. But a change of scenery that adds to that feeling of being underneath the ocean waves through the use of a skybox.