To be clear, I want to acknowledge that you are now touting the efforts of Mao and Stalin.
Modern China isn't even close to being communist. But hey, at least it's very authoritarian...
I'll attack them on the two governments you just cited... how fucking authoritarian they are. And don't bitch about it being a strawman, because they are your argument.
Crack that whip.
In terms of their historical productivity, relative to Western nations. If you're seeing anything else, that's you making shit up to engage in slander.
I'm not communist in any ideological sense.
So you're arguing that state capitalism isn't communist, since I think we can comfortably agree that modern China's economy is "state capitalism"?Modern China isn't even close to being communist. But hey, at least it's very authoritarian...
If that's the case, congrats, we're coming around to admitting that capitalism has the same issues as communism, in the end. And that maybe your issue should be "authoritarianism", not economic systems. Actually stick to the common thread, rather than pushing propaganda.
See, the point is that if you keep trying to talk about how bad authoritarianism is, and keep pretending that you're talking about communism, then you're misrepresenting the facts to push propaganda.I'll attack them on the two governments you just cited... how fucking authoritarian they are. And don't bitch about it being a strawman, because they are your argument.
Crack that whip.
I'm not going to defend or support authoritarianism in any sense. But you've been trying to make an argument about communist economics, not authoritarianism. Stop shifting goalposts every time you get challenged. The two things aren't the same.
We should deal with them the same way we already deal with them. Children, homemakers, students, retirees. Determining whether someone is supported by society based on their productivity is a position fundamentally rooted in exploitation and abuse, and I reject it on base principles.
There's nothing to "deal with". That's what I'm trying to get you to understand. You're asking a leading question, and I'm just not playing your game.
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No, you want to argue that, no need to make my arguments for me.
You touted their productivity, as your argument. You wanted to tout them. It's amazing how productive people can be, when you will literally kill them if they don't work harder.
let's not forget, they were your argument.
I stated a while back, communism on paper is fine, it's the implementation that's the problem. Communism simply promotes complacency, laziness, and is an easy target of corrupt and selfish people.
This is the fundamental flaw with communism, it easily allows for the likes of those regimes, and those people to ruin it.
So, on an economic and personal level, capitalism allows for more liberty, and promotes productivity.
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You mean one of the least-free nations on the planet?
https://rsf.org/en/ranking_table
https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores
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To be clear, are you saying liberty also means nothing to you?
So, if there's no negative impacts if a person decides to not be productive, then what incentive to they have to contribute? They will still be taken care of, and they will still be given everything they want/need as part of the collective.
Are we to assume they would be productive out of the goodness of their hearts?
The point wasn't to open a bigger debate on Communism. The point was that the rule of society isn't decided by the rich few, it's decided by society, aka THE MOB. Whatever they want to happen, they can make happen. And there's not much a Government (and even less random individuals that don't own an army) can do about it except killing everyone last one that dissents. Typically, that is a pretty successful strategy to a point. But you're not making any friends and when you eventually fail (which most do, inevitably), it's your head.
So, making fun of the notion that these billionaires can't be stopped, that's just hilarious on a historical scale. It's like literally, millenia of European history looking at that post and going...
Edit: That our little pro-communist friend here gets a hardon for defending the glory of the great Soviet is his problem.. yours, however, is that there is arguably only one, maybe two semi-successful examples of communism in the history of this planet that demonstrate it might be working under certain conditions. And last I checked, Cuba wasn't doing so well and China... well, the jury's still out on them, I guess. It's certainly a very Chinese variant of Communism. But one out of a few dozen doesn't make Communism as a concept a success story. In theory maybe... but I don't give a shit what Marx and Engels dreamt up in their smokepipes. It's not what it turned into later, that's for sure. Turns out humans are assholes after all.
Last edited by Slant; 2021-06-24 at 02:21 PM.
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