Could serious race agency make a difference even improve your enjoyment of wow?

[Beloren]

The game has had little to no race agency since the level 1-20 zones, after that you're either a nameless adventurer, hero or <<insert faction>> hero. The last one I personally feel super simplifies the complexity and nuance having different races in alliance actually means and leaves a huge gap unexplored and been a source of errors and inconsistencies. Surely you're more than just a horde hero or alliance hero right? Yet race agency ceased after level 20

Many people are quite attached to the races they play and their storylines, they tend to feel a part of that race and enthusiastically root for them, argue for them and always discuss or press for more features, storylines etc.

Whiles shadowlands really took an interesting route with how relevant it made the covenants, one can be forgiven to really feel this should have been done for races.

If blizzard were to make race feel relevant, and give it proper agency once more in the adventure.. would this excite you greatly? a little or not at all. I'm not saying blizzard should only focus on story and race, there are still game features and raids etc to do, the- question is would you like this to play a more heavy role in your adventure?

Exploring Possibilities on How
Ways this can happen would be to do with races what they did with covenants, or go to an expanded version of Legion-style class order halls, but using Capitals instead of order halls ofc, and having racial quest campaigns coming every patch for the foreseeable feature (rather than just one expansion) in addition to the main story line, as a sort of augmented adventure.

There are off course many ways to make the race campaign meaningful and part of gameplay, covenants gives you an idea of what could be, but it can extend to more than that, to include slowly rebuilding or expanding your capital city based on progress and unique resources, this visual improvement could easily be a cross expansion progression not tied to character power to give people who play a long time and are into the immersion the races allow, a means to see their chosen group seriously advance.

To this effect blizzard would plan a progression and improvement story for every race, and players who pick a character on that race, would get an opportunity to work towards it with new storylines coming regularly in patch updates. This doesn't mean your race might not fall to great misfortune, but at least it provides more than "just being ignored" and perhaps a chance to see and guide your race to a better place. I still hope that blizzard don't only use races for canon fodder like they famously do with the night elves, but in their major storylines we can also see some races get great acceleration like we saw for blood lves in TBC and gnomes and Trolls in BFA.


What do you think? Do racial campaigns that continue your races storyline appeal to you? A system that lets you help rebuild and advance your race? All in addition to the main storyline plot? Would this excite you?

Things you can look forward to:
1. Finally seeing the effects of major events play a part in your local race's community culture
2. no more useless broken down abandoned capitals, but now they can have a purpose, maybe even get regular updates to reflect your progress (can you imagine if this happened every patch or 2, what they could look like in say 10 years?)
3. Having serious racial agency too and not just always on faction.

[AngerFork]

They absolutely should add in some racial agency to WoW. It would not only make the game more fun, but it would really expand out the world so much more. It doesn't even have to be that much, even just putting breadcrumb quests in racial home cities with racial text would give us some sort of enhancement.

Imagine how that would've played out as a starting setup for BfA, racial breadcrumbs sending you to Stormwind/Orgrimmar for the start of the war. Night Elves & Gilneans could talk to their leaders and hear about taking revenge. Humans could hear from Anduin how regrettable this course of action was, though no other option is there. Forsaken would likely hear from Sylvanas about true racial survival while the Tauren might hear about the damages from Azerite on the Earth Mother. Every race would grow and everyone would feel a part of the world.

[Azerate]

While class halls and covenants are thematically cool to me, I don't think the same would work for such groups based on race. Maybe because I'm inadvertently drawing parallels to real life and then it just sounds wrong.

We have a "kind of" racial quest lines in the form of heritage armor questlines, and I feel like that's a nice touch for the people who want to roleplay. Expanding it to some kind of racial teams fighting each other, or having exclusive quest lines just sounds weird. Even for gameplay reasons it feels weird, because personally, as a human warrior, I feel like I have much more in common with a night elf warrior or even an orc warrior, than with a human mage (for example). I just don't see race as something to bond over with other people nor anything that automatically makes me feel a connection to somebody.

[draugril]

Great idea. WoW desperately needs continuous more narratives instead of the slipshod episodes of annual doom they've been pumping out since WoD.

That's precisely why it'll never happen, though. They only do self-contained episodes now. The stories on Azeroth and Kalimdor are "over." Your race's story is "over." Onto the next story, where we need to save the newly-discovered Kingdom of Gingledoof from the Splorts and unlock the Phrenlite allied race! No one cares about Humans or Orcs or any available flavour of Elf!

[Sinndra]

i definitely think the story should branch out more. add more serious story progression, along with visual improvements to past zones and areas affected by either a certain race, faction, or class. the main story should be the ultimate focus, but there should be a very close second in attention given to development of classes and races.

i understand its not very easy to advance everything for everybody in every patch. but it should be doable to rotate on a patch to patch basis.. find 2 races and 1 class to advance their story and progression in past zones. and these advancements should be all levels, not just restricted to max level content.

[The Stormbringer]

I'd be open to more racial-based story options or progression. Depending on how in-depth and interesting it is, that interest would vary between "barely any" to "quite a lot". Things like actually cool, fun missions, new pieces of lore and character development, cosmetic unlocks, new areas, and minor quality of life features would definitely push it towards the "quite a lot" end of the spectrum.

Every patch would be overkill, but updates at least once an expansion (with the core being quite extensive) would be great.

[Sanguinerd]

One of my biggest issue with Shadowlands is how many of my character don't really fit into any of the Covenants because of who and what they are.

Also is there just one Maw Walker? Because everytime it comes up the NPCs act like theyre is just a singular Maw Walker and the other players around me don't exist.

Bit like how in Legion you were THE class-leader (which wasn't perfect either) but atleast the existence of other class leaders was acknowledged.

[Soon-TM]

They absolutely should add in some racial agency to WoW. It would not only make the game more fun, but it would really expand out the world so much more. It doesn't even have to be that much, even just putting breadcrumb quests in racial home cities with racial text would give us some sort of enhancement.

Imagine how that would've played out as a starting setup for BfA, racial breadcrumbs sending you to Stormwind/Orgrimmar for the start of the war. Night Elves & Gilneans could talk to their leaders and hear about taking revenge. Humans could hear from Anduin how regrettable this course of action was, though no other option is there. Forsaken would likely hear from Sylvanas about true racial survival while the Tauren might hear about the damages from Azerite on the Earth Mother. Every race would grow and everyone would feel a part of the world.

Agree with this and with OP. A multi-expansion racial quest series would be dope, especially if we can see some results in-game, rather than in some random book. The only issues I see is... what about ARs? Surely developing special content for the ~20 races that exist now (including ARs) would be too much, even assuming that devs entertain the idea at some point.

[AngerFork]

Agree with this and with OP. A multi-expansion racial quest series would be dope, especially if we can see some results in-game, rather than in some random book. The only issues I see is... what about ARs? Surely developing special content for the ~20 races that exist now (including ARs) would be too much, even assuming that devs entertain the idea at some point.

For a large scale effort, agreed. Setting up a set of 23/24 custom quest lines would be a ton of work which is why I was instead just thinking of it for breadcrumbs. A couple quick quests with just text & "go over here" doesn't seem like it should take much compared to something with full dialog, quests to kill x mobs, etc. The quest setup of "if X race, get this quest" is already in the game from the race armor questlines, so that shouldn't be anything new. It would be a lot of writing to be sure and a lot of extra quests added to the game each expansion, but most would have copy/paste results so the main task would fall on the writers/data entry team rather than the dev team.

[Zyrinx]

Sadly wow is not this game, and Covenants prove it.

But I wish it was.

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I'd be open to more racial-based story options or progression. Depending on how in-depth and interesting it is, that interest would vary between "barely any" to "quite a lot". Things like actually cool, fun missions, new pieces of lore and character development, cosmetic unlocks, new areas, and minor quality of life features would definitely push it towards the "quite a lot" end of the spectrum.

Every patch would be overkill, but updates at least once an expansion (with the core being quite extensive) would be great.

Racial content would be a great way to approach the H-word.

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Great idea. WoW desperately needs continuous more narratives instead of the slipshod episodes of annual doom they've been pumping out since WoD.

That's precisely why it'll never happen, though. They only do self-contained episodes now. The stories on Azeroth and Kalimdor are "over." Your race's story is "over." Onto the next story, where we need to save the newly-discovered Kingdom of Gingledoof from the Splorts and unlock the Phrenlite allied race! No one cares about Humans or Orcs or any available flavour of Elf!

You mean the Planet or Dimension of Gingledoof. Kingdoms were so 2007.

[Beloren]

Great idea. WoW desperately needs continuous more narratives instead of the slipshod episodes of annual doom they've been pumping out since WoD.

That's precisely why it'll never happen, though. They only do self-contained episodes now. The stories on Azeroth and Kalimdor are "over." Your race's story is "over." Onto the next story, where we need to save the newly-discovered Kingdom of Gingledoof from the Splorts and unlock the Phrenlite allied race! No one cares about Humans or Orcs or any available flavour of Elf!

Roflmao, it's funny but it's sad too, because it's true.. it makes me sad.

[draugril]

You mean the Planet or Dimension of Gingledoof. Kingdoms were so 2007.

You haven't heard the "twist." Gingledoof is the platonic ideal of a "kingdom." We're beyond planets and dimensions - we're saving the very concept of governance!

[Beloren]

Agree with this and with OP. A multi-expansion racial quest series would be dope, especially if we can see some results in-game, rather than in some random book. The only issues I see is... what about ARs? Surely developing special content for the ~20 races that exist now (including ARs) would be too much, even assuming that devs entertain the idea at some point.

ARs would probably be tied into the storyline's of their main race, and have a portion of their quests unique, but mostly similar or the same arc (if they're on opposite factions like void elves and blood elves) - could be very interesting.

They could also potentially group a few races together for bigger arcs, so you have 3 degrees of arcs, For the mega arcs a bunch of race will all be involved in the mega arc, but each group would have individual flavours - it would be something that would be a lot of fun to figure out how to do best then. AFterall, eventually some races would cross.

But the beauty of a continued storyline is you can have all kinds of interacts, maybe for a few patches orcs crossed paths with Tauren, mainly, and in another it was Draenei, and in a third it was goblins - but on the orc character it would be entirely from the orc perspective. wherever that may lead.

it's just a rough idea .

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You haven't heard the "twist." Gingledoof is the platonic ideal of a "kingdom." We're beyond planets and dimensions - we're saving the very concept of governance!

You sort of miss the more groudned days of more grounded story telling. It's not like htey'd even porperly exhausted the interactions and stories of the races.

[draugril]

You sort of miss the more groudned days of more grounded story telling. It's not like htey'd even porperly exhausted the interactions and stories of the races.

Yep. Let us be Orcs and Humans fighting Dragons and Demons. They don't need to constantly escalate the enemy's scope and shift the lens by which we experience that content to stranger and stranger new allies.

[Beloren]

You mean the Planet or Dimension of Gingledoof. Kingdoms were so 2007.

Don't forget the reality breaking Sploorfs

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Yep. Let us be Orcs and Humans fighting Dragons and Demons. They don't need to constantly escalate the enemy's scope and shift the lens by which we experience that content to stranger and stranger new allies.

Completely agree. It just gets ridiculous when you have some grand cosmic scale conflict every two years. I don't objective to having serious threats to deal with, but it's like they had the details well done, but forgot to zoom out and see how it would look over time from a bird's eye view angle.

[Niter]

I guess the reason why Warcraft 3 is so fondly remember is due to having a unique feel to each race. Orcs, Humans, Undead and Night Elves had vastly different mechanics and identities. Vanilla sort of kept going in that direction: Humans had E. Forest/Redridge/Duskwood/Westfall/Burning Steppers. Dwarves had Dun Morogh/Loch Modan/Wetlands/Arathi/Hinterlands/Searing Gorge. They would eventually lead to the Plaguelands and Blasted Lands. STV, Swamp of Sorrows and Blasted Lands were mostly "neutral" areas. The Undead would go through Tirisfal/Silverpine/Alterac/Arathi, sort of advancing their story leading up to the Plaguelands.

Kalimdor had Tauren in Thunderblufff/Mulgore/The Barrens/Thousand Needles/Feralas/Tanaris/Dustwallow Marsh. Orcs had a similar path, having Durotar and eastern Ashenvale to explore. Night Elves had Teldrassil/Darkshore/Ashenvale/Stonetalon/Desolace/Feralas. All of them would eventually end up in Silithus, but they could go to Azshara, Felwood and Winterspring as more 'neutral' areas.

It sort of felt like a natural path. Of course, because XP didn't work so well in Vanilla and TBC, characters would have to travel the world until ready for the next areas, but the stories were there.

In many ways, Blizzard attempting to make the Alliance and the Horde some sort of mirror match didn't quite work well for both. The Alliance was forced to be under Human banner and the players who didn't play Humans had to accept a "High King of the Alliance", although the Alliance had always been a coalition up to that point, and the Human potential took over. The Horde didn't really end up being much better, as the Darkspear Trolls got almost no attention at all, and the Tauren, that should have been elite units compared to Orc Grunts, became some sort of neutral faction. The Forsaken got quite a bit of development, had (and still have!) some great quests. Cataclysm shifted the focus from 'this area is special for us because...' to 'Elementals and funky stuff have been threating this and that, so it's important that we all unite!' and the game has been the same ever since.

I was so surprised when Pandaria actually showed some races having their own agendas (such as the Night Elves working on Tyrande's orders in the jungle), but it has been really annoying ever since. Whenever there's a new story, it's about a new, forgettable race or faction we'll farm for rewards. It's always the beam in the sky threatening all existence, so we must unite and no longer are we the champions of our races, we became heroes of our factions instead, which is quite boring. I guess the last time that sense of racial pride made sense was during the Argent Tournament, in Wrath.

Blizzard said many things about making the world more interesting and dynamic, and they have lost time and time again excellent opportunities. They have their phasing tech that's worked really well for gameplay and narrative, and I wonder why there aren't dynamic events akin to those in Guild Wars 2. Why can't we have a call to arms in Ashenvale, when the Night Elves are pushing the Warsong back? Why aren't there dynamic quests to fend off the Horde attacking in Arathi, attempting to sack Soutshore? What about the Ogres, Yeti and other monsters starting a raid in Alterac? Maybe the a Silithid empowered by an Old God minion has rallied forces in Silithus, pushed an underground tunnel to Feralas and started an invasion? Why can't the Naga or the Sea Witch threaten Durotar, and Trolls and Orcs get mobilised to put an end to them? Can't the Black Orcs, helped by a black dragonspawn start gathering forces to push against the Dwarves in Loch Modan? What about a Scourge Raid, maching from the Dead Scar into Silvermoon, and, as a result, all Thalassian Elves unite for a short while to make sure the threat is handled?

There is so much they could do, but these 'self-contained episodes', looking more and more anime-like with their world-ending menaces and power level going all over the place are the norm now, and Blizzard believe that a soulless, yet polished and with a fine attempt at striking the balance between repetition, progress and fun, is the way to go because it's cheaper. It would be even cheaper to re-use the world, update it little by little and have the races be a thing again. Until then, the 'RPG' aspect of the game remains dead.

[Razion]

Well, agency is choice - free will.

What you're describing in detail was basically the Heritage Questlines. But yeah, those were fun. They can do more of those.

What I'm really looking for in freedom of races though is the ability to be any class as any race. Those kinds of stories can make for great quests imo. Like the Sunwalker stuff. But some people ree into eternity at the mention of stuff like that. I like it, tho.

For example: Night Warrior could be a good reason to start Night Elf Paladins who take their power from Elune forcefully. One example.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

One of my biggest issue with Shadowlands is how many of my character don't really fit into any of the Covenants because of who and what they are.

Also is there just one Maw Walker? Because everytime it comes up the NPCs act like theyre is just a singular Maw Walker and the other players around me don't exist.

Bit like how in Legion you were THE class-leader (which wasn't perfect either) but atleast the existence of other class leaders was acknowledged.

What characters do you have who don't fit any covenant?

[Nnyco]

One of my biggest issue with Shadowlands is how many of my character don't really fit into any of the Covenants because of who and what they are.

Also is there just one Maw Walker? Because everytime it comes up the NPCs act like theyre is just a singular Maw Walker and the other players around me don't exist.

Bit like how in Legion you were THE class-leader (which wasn't perfect either) but atleast the existence of other class leaders was acknowledged.

Thats not true, in theater of pain they explicitly say "maw walkers".

[AngerFork]

Well, agency is choice - free will.

What you're describing in detail was basically the Heritage Questlines. But yeah, those were fun. They can do more of those.

What I'm really looking for in freedom of races though is the ability to be any class as any race. Those kinds of stories can make for great quests imo. Like the Sunwalker stuff. But some people ree into eternity at the mention of stuff like that. I like it, tho.

For example: Night Warrior could be a good reason to start Night Elf Paladins who take their power from Elune forcefully. One example.

I wouldn't mind having an "any race, any class" setup, but I do feel that's going to push heavily on the art team due to the custom assets some classes have. Shamans have race-specific totems, Paladins have race-specific mounts, & Druids have race-specific animal forms. That's a lot of pressure on the art team to create a lot of assets simply to open up more race/class combos. We know also that if Blizz were to open up those classes to all races without the custom artwork, there would be people calling them lazy for not customizing the assets, which definitely I think hurts the movement to do so. Maybe Demon Hunters as well due to the horn/tattoo fits, those could be weird on some races.

Aside from those classes though, I see no reason to hold the rest back from being playable everywhere.