Is Blood Furnace the hardest heroic dungeon in TBC/the game?

[Makabreska]

The only really dangerous things in BF were Technician mines.

[minkage]

From memory the pre-nerf Durnholde was extremely hard and definately the one I had the most difficulty pugging back in the day.

Shadowlabs required an exessive amount of CC and pulls could get out of control really quick.

[Oneer]

Definitely arcatraz that place is a nightmare

Arcatraz is largely a check of the healer on the 1st boss if you lack shadow res and having a means to survive the 9k mindflay on the last boss, either having enough hp or an off-healer to not get 1-shot, if they meet both of those criteria it's manageable.

Blood Furnace is one of the easiest heroics, even back in the day. The pulls are never that big nor do you really need CC. There isn't really any "Event" in there that you call it as everything is self-paced If you are trying to rush it for some reason then there's part of your problem.

BF is as hard as your comp is in handling the 2nd boss gauntlet. There's two types of caged adds, one of which are immune to snares, tanks in the current level of gear can't facetank more than two at a time and one of them do a 6-second stun so the possibility of the tank getting gibbed in that window is high.

On the plus side given everything is cleared fear is a viable CC for this.

[Master Guns]

As a healer, I personally find BF the hardest dungeon to heal, but simply due to group composition. If you don't have the right group comp, that gauntlet before the second boss in BF will 1 shot your tank and there's nothing I can do about it. If you don't have 2 classes that can CC those frenzied adds, your tank will get chewed up and you'll burn through all your mana trying to keep him up in the process before the 2nd wave even hits. It's annoying as all hell.

I tried healing that part on my resto shaman with almost all 70 heroic healing gear on, and 2 kara pieces and 1300 plus healing, but no CC - i literally can't do it. It's impossible without CC.

[Nak88]

Yep. That 4-pull, no rest, no pause event before 2nd boss is extremely difficult unless you are full T4-T5 and bring the perfect setup (mage, hunter, warlock)

[Lucetia]

BF is as hard as your comp is in handling the 2nd boss gauntlet. There's two types of caged adds, one of which are immune to snares, tanks in the current level of gear can't facetank more than two at a time and one of them do a 6-second stun so the possibility of the tank getting gibbed in that window is high.

On the plus side given everything is cleared fear is a viable CC for this.

Eh, that event is pretty easy. The only time it'd be more difficult than it should is if your tank is ignoring their stats. For Warriors/Paladins there was the 102.5% Block Cap that helped made you uncrushable.

/run local b,d,p,r=GetBlockChance(),GetDodgeChance(),GetParryChance(),GetCombatRating(CR_DEFENSE_SKILL) ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("BlockCap: %.2f%%",b+d+p+5+(r/2.367)*0.04,1,0.5,0))

This one I think might just be druids only as its been awhile:

/run local d,p,r=GetDodgeChance(),GetParryChance(),GetCombatRating(CR_DEFENSE_SKILL) ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Avoidance: %.2f%%",d+p+5+(r/2.367)*0.04,1,0.5,0))

Then there was the 490 Defense cap that made you immune to crits.

I know you mentioned stun and I can't remember, nor find anything that says yes or no, on when someone is stunned if it ignores all their defenses (ie making them crittable). I know you can't dodge/block/parry, but I believe the defense skill still plays its part.

The following waves occur:
Wave 1: 3x Nascent Fel Orc
Wave 2: 3x Nascent Fel Orc
Wave 3: 2x Nascent Fel Orc + 2x Fel Orc Neophyte
Wave 4: 1x Nascent Fel Orc + 3x Fel Orc Neophyte

Out of those only the Nascent Fel Orc can stun with Concussion Blow for 5 seconds. Even during that 5 second window you aren't going to die that quickly unless your healer is terrible or doesn't anticipate possibly needing a cooldown. I can't remember, as I mentioned earlier, if your defense is ignored or not but I do know you can't block/dodge/parry. So with defense it should mitigate some.

Lastly, the only time you'd likely face issues would be if you are in fresh green quest gear still for the most part. Though being completely under geared doesn't mean it makes it qualified for "one of the harder dungeons".

Basically, if there are problems in this dungeon then the tank probably wants to check and see if they are hitting their goals that they need to be at.

Yep. That 4-pull, no rest, no pause event before 2nd boss is extremely difficult unless you are full T4-T5 and bring the perfect setup (mage, hunter, warlock)

It still isn't hard by any means and you don't need full Tier gear or perfect setup. There are also "pauses" where you can spam your drink and are able to drink really quick as there is usually a second before entering combat again.

Note: Uncrushable is mainly used for 73+ mobs (typical raid bosses and some trash). With this said it is still highly encouraged to hit it for Heroic dungeons as it will smooth out your damage intake a lot.

[ellieg]

Eh, that event is pretty easy. The only time it'd be more difficult than it should is if your tank is ignoring their stats. For Warriors/Paladins there was the 102.5% Block Cap that helped made you uncrushable.

/run local b,d,p,r=GetBlockChance(),GetDodgeChance(),GetParryChance(),GetCombatRating(CR_DEFENSE_SKILL) ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("BlockCap: %.2f%%",b+d+p+5+(r/2.367)*0.04,1,0.5,0))

This one I think might just be druids only as its been awhile:

/run local d,p,r=GetDodgeChance(),GetParryChance(),GetCombatRating(CR_DEFENSE_SKILL) ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Avoidance: %.2f%%",d+p+5+(r/2.367)*0.04,1,0.5,0))

Then there was the 490 Defense cap that made you immune to crits.

I know you mentioned stun and I can't remember, nor find anything that says yes or no, on when someone is stunned if it ignores all their defenses (ie making them crittable). I know you can't dodge/block/parry, but I believe the defense skill still plays its part.

The following waves occur:
Wave 1: 3x Nascent Fel Orc
Wave 2: 3x Nascent Fel Orc
Wave 3: 2x Nascent Fel Orc + 2x Fel Orc Neophyte
Wave 4: 1x Nascent Fel Orc + 3x Fel Orc Neophyte

Out of those only the Nascent Fel Orc can stun with Concussion Blow for 5 seconds. Even during that 5 second window you aren't going to die that quickly unless your healer is terrible or doesn't anticipate possibly needing a cooldown. I can't remember, as I mentioned earlier, if your defense is ignored or not but I do know you can't block/dodge/parry. So with defense it should mitigate some.

Lastly, the only time you'd likely face issues would be if you are in fresh green quest gear still for the most part. Though being completely under geared doesn't mean it makes it qualified for "one of the harder dungeons".

Basically, if there are problems in this dungeon then the tank probably wants to check and see if they are hitting their goals that they need to be at.



It still isn't hard by any means and you don't need full Tier gear or perfect setup. There are also "pauses" where you can spam your drink and are able to drink really quick as there is usually a second before entering combat again.

Level 70s cannot be crushed in heroics. Thats is strictly a mechanic when fighting mobs 3+ levels above you (raid bosses as well). And only 485 defense is needed in heroics.

Also, moves like holy shield have charges. When fighting multiple mobs, the charges will get consumed and you're 102.4% avoidance wouldn't be up full time anyway.

[Lucetia]

Level 70s cannot be crushed in heroics. Thats is strictly a mechanic when fighting mobs 3+ levels above you (raid bosses as well)

Bosses should be marked as skulls which means they can crush you. The trash itself won't, but the bosses still can and it's a goal you should be aiming for regardless.

[ellieg]

Bosses should be marked as skulls which means they can crush you. The trash itself won't, but the bosses still can and it's a goal you should be aiming for regardless.

Bosses in heroics are level 72. They do not crush unless you are 3 levels or more below them.

[Lucetia]

Bosses in heroics are level 72. They do not crush unless you are 3 levels or more below them.

You are right as I just saw a video on the new realms displaying Level 71. At one point they were skulls (can't remember when) so that's probably what I was remembering when I wrote it. Either way hitting the uncrushable cap shouldn't matter because it is still something you want to do as it will make you take far less damage thus making the runs smoother.

[ellieg]

You are right as I just saw a video on the new realms displaying Level 71. At one point they were skulls (can't remember when) so that's probably what I was remembering when I wrote it. Either way hitting the uncrushable cap shouldn't matter because it is still something you want to do as it will make you take far less damage thus making the runs smoother.

I agree. Just felt the need to correct 1 little part of your post so everything could be more accurate

[Heathy]

free action potions aswell seem to help in some places, there is actually quite a lot of trash that stuns or knockdowns and i'm pretty sure that faps works on most of it. I always have 10-15 faps on me to trivialise stun locks. in classic it was, gehennas adds that spammed stuns, the draconid trash in bwl, the abominations in naxx, if you've been tanking for a while, you probably have free action potions.

I always thought the funny part of BF was that the fel guards near the end when they charge they always swing after it and you can either soak that or you can't, warriors can intervene once every 30 seconds, your best option is to try to stun lock those things, disarm maybe. but that charge and the follow up swing, even if you taunt it while it charges they always seem to get a swing off. if its a mage or someone thin and the swing crits they will probably die to it.

[Aurabolt]

Nothing is hard about tbc dungeons if you learn that you simply put cant face tank everything and use slow traps, nova, fears etc, all these things make them far easier.

That's true of ANY dungeon or raid but the problem I noticed over the last 12 years is people just want to ignore mechanics and rush through instances.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Bosses should be marked as skulls which means they can crush you. The trash itself won't, but the bosses still can and it's a goal you should be aiming for regardless.

Frankly, the bosses do so little damage compared to the trash in heroics you probably don't need to care as much about being uncrushable. Most of them do less tank damage than the trash mobs.

[anon5123]

Blood Furnace has retardedly hard-hitting trash mobs, and Shattered Halls was pretty much designed around a group composition of paladin tank, shaman healer, and 3 frost mages.

I've tanked both on a Feral druid, and Blood Furnace wasn't TOO bad, the only tough part was the 2nd boss where you pretty much need 3 CC classes or you'll get pounded by the trash mobs. Shattered Halls on the other hand....holy fuck what was Blizzard thinking? Multiple pulls of 6 or even 7 mobs, tons of AoE packs, holy shit. All of the large packs I was forced to use the hunter AoE slow trap to kite mobs around because I'd get wrecked otherwise. We were just spamming CC as much as possible and just barely surviving each pull. And this is with a nearly full preraid-bis tank and healer.

Now I understand why people don't want to do H Shh. Fuck that instance.

[Heathy]

I still have to do SH H for the TK attunement and it also requires that you do it in a certain amount of time, I don't think the timer is tight but I also think I remember you can't exactly wipe fest through it and still make it.

the biggest issue with the shattered halls trash at least those packs of dudes fighting each other toward the second half, you obviously pull those when they are low on hp but the part that sucks is that they do mortal strike which combined with 5-6 dudes hitting you at the same time does a lot of damage. i'm not looking forward to tanking that on heroic.

[Oneer]

I've tanked both on a Feral druid, and Blood Furnace wasn't TOO bad, the only tough part was the 2nd boss where you pretty much need 3 CC classes or you'll get pounded by the trash mobs. Shattered Halls on the other hand....holy fuck what was Blizzard thinking? Multiple pulls of 6 or even 7 mobs, tons of AoE packs, holy shit. All of the large packs I was forced to use the hunter AoE slow trap to kite mobs around because I'd get wrecked otherwise. We were just spamming CC as much as possible and just barely surviving each pull. And this is with a nearly full preraid-bis tank and healer.

Now I understand why people don't want to do H Shh. Fuck that instance.

There's a few cheese comps you can use to make HC SHH manageable, i've done several runs now as a prot warrior with a mage specced imp. blizzard and a warlock via seed kiting, the trick is you have your last DPS (we used a rogue) kill the centurion and keep the casters locked down in the aoe while the mage & lock seed kite the other 6 mobs, with this method it made most of the dungeon pretty trivial.

[vian]

The one that people didn't seem to understand was Arcatraz, in my experience. And Durnholde. I have done both many times, but people w/o a clue could f those up pretty easily.

Alcatraz was only rough at the end, can't comment on it now though since I'm not playing the rerelease.

[Northern Goblin]

The issue with Blood Furnace is the horrid combination of tank stuns with multi hit mobs.

Neophytes also have the potential to randomly charge which can be combined with their swing timer being up and one shotting your healer.

BF just requires a slightly slower pace, and less rush in until you overgear. It's not the worst heroic though, Arcatraz sends its regards.

[Kralljin]

Blood Furnace is one of the easiest heroics, even back in the day. The pulls are never that big nor do you really need CC. There isn't really any "Event" in there that you call it as everything is self-paced If you are trying to rush it for some reason then there's part of your problem.

I disagree, heavily.
An "easy" heroic is not one where you need a specific comp / consumables in order to complete it, an easy heroic in my book is something such as Slave pens which you can do with practically any comp.

The only heroics that were "hard" back in the day were Shattered Halls, as the pulls here can get overly messy. There were some parts in Shadow Labs that were tricky.

I once again disagree from personal experience.

I said in an earlier post, Shattered Halls is just overrated, you have big pulls but none of those big pulls have very dangerous mobs, a tank can facetank 3-4 mobs in Shattered Halls without being near death all the time, simply because those mobs don't hit very hard, from there it's just dps watching threat and tank holding off healer aggro.
The only dangerous mobs in Shattered Halls are the Gladiators (which are optional) and those non elite hounds, which never come along a big pack.

Shadowlabs, same story, some big pulls, but contain nothing dangerous that can't be stopped by a regular comp.
You have some guys in front of the 2nd boss that have a nasty Mindflay, but it can be interrupted and is thus not very difficult.

Like really, Shattered Halls and Shadowlab are just "take it slow" dungeons and you'll get by with almost any comp as long people know how to make use of their toolkit.
I did both Shattered Halls heroic and Shadowlab heroic without any incident, simply because they don't throw anything that extremely unfair towards you.

Blood Furnace on the other hand with its gauntlet event just throws a big "fuck you" your way.

First off, you can't mark these mobs beforehand, making coordinating CC a lot more difficult, Sap is also a dead CC in there due to that.
Second, those mobs cannot slowed, at least regular slows (Hunter trap and Imp. Blizzard supposedly work) meaning that resorting to kite strats is near impossible without a specific comp.
Third, their stun fucks a tank, not just their incoming damage but also their threat generation.
Fourth, random charge, their charge on its own does a modicum of damage but they sometimes weave an auto attack onto the charge target, which can easily kill a dps, there is a chance that someone just dies to a random charge which will lead to a wipe.
Fifth, you will not always drop combat, making healer mana a real issue.

I have done every heroic in TBC with the exception of Ramparts and Underbog, Blood furnace is my #1 next to Arcatraz simply because these dungeons throw unfair shit at you that you cannot bypass and will fuck you over unless you can overgear it or have the right comp.