Thread: Reality's end.

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  1. #41
    Zovaal speaks of having everyone serve him. I think the purpose of ending reality would, presumably, to bring it all to the Death Realm where he can rule over everyone and everything. His motivation seems to be to dominate everything in death. We also know he's after the world soul of Azeroth, so presumably once he has that he can accomplish that goal.

  2. #42
    I actually find it interesting, we spent way too much of WoW's existence thinking that Titans were the creators, until we found out they sort of weren't. But then when you think about cosmology chart - they are just 1 of 6 major powers in the universe and quite clearly they did not create the 5 others.

    So, back to the thing at hand, we will be going to Sepulcher of the First Ones, the guys who allegedly set the whole thing in motion including the organization of 6 powers, in some way at least. What we will find in their tomb we don't know, but apparently it will be something that will upend the whole 6 powers balance/struggle and potentially affect the universe in a major way.

    We will get some answers, maybe we will out Elune as a First One or some such or we find they are all truly dead and gone and only machinery and tools remain or maybe we will find something that killed them there and whole Jailer part was just a setup for us to meet that something. Maybe we will be forced to seek out First Ones or Elune (if she's one) ourselves next expansion to save ourselves from this something. Or maybe we will find that one of the remaining other 5 powers got there first and will be setup for next expansion as a threat that got the tools to remake universe in their image.

    Story can really go anywhere from there and it feels like a huge setup for events and arcs spanning many years.

    The Jailer himself is the least important and interesting part, all in all he's just a throwaway expansion villain not unlike Deathwing. I'm just curious if we are the ones who are going to put a bullet into him or it will be some eldritch horror he will accidentally unleash with him blundering about the tomb and toying with stuff he does not completely comprehend himself.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2021-07-09 at 11:01 PM.
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  3. #43
    Future lore is more predictable now.

    Since Zovaal is the new baddie that is titan++ (descriped by Blizzard), I highly doubt he will be an endboss anytime soon.

    I predict that Zovaal will end reality meaning Azeroth and the worlds in that 'reality realm' and future expansion will resolve this, pehraps a time travel expansion, with timewalkers as a new class and a faction?

    or we gonna forge new keys to defeat zovaal in next patch, but him as an endboss this expansion will probably be a no no
    Last edited by guldin; 2021-07-09 at 11:30 PM.

  4. #44
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    Still not really clear what Zovaal is doing and why. Not in a mystery way, in a really fucking unclear and shitty storytelling way. Hell look at the so-called Banshee Queen who isn't even allowed to just be fucking evil, she's gotta be weak and misguided and have a fragile ego. It's dumb as fuck when she was already a terrible character to begin with but was at least consistently evil and selfish all along. Now she's not even that. What a terrible villain.
    Paladin Bash has spoken.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by guldin View Post
    Future lore is more predictable now.

    Since Zovaal is the new baddie that is titan++ (descriped by Blizzard), I highly doubt he will be an endboss anytime soon.

    I predict that Zovaal will end reality meaning Azeroth and the worlds in that 'reality realm' and future expansion will resolve this, pehraps a time travel expansion, with timewalkers as a new class and a faction?
    Zovaal is a walking corpse, he's practically already dead at the end of the road as character. He is a throwaway plot device who will be discarded in 9.2.

    Blizz hyping him up is in same capacity as they hyped up Deathwing, who practically was an overgrown fly powerlevels-wise. They won't release expansion and tell you "oh yeah this instant villain guy here, soz we just had to put someone there to roar and red text at you once in a while".

    The whole thing was a setup to introduce this 7th power, push Anduin and Sylv forward and reveal another big piece of the puzzle they will use in next expansions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinBash View Post
    Still not really clear what Zovaal is doing and why. Not in a mystery way, in a really fucking unclear and shitty storytelling way...
    That's just frankly a silly take. It's unclear because it's meant to be unclear - we don't know shit about these First Ones and about what we will find in Sepulcher. And we don't know why Jailer guns for it either. It is by definition a mystery.

    We don't know not because "shit storytelling", but because we're not meant to know at this point.
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Zovaal is a walking corpse, he's practically already dead at the end of the road as character. He is a throwaway plot device who will be discarded in 9.2.

    Blizz hyping him up is in same capacity as they hyped up Deathwing, who practically was an overgrown fly powerlevels-wise. They won't release expansion and tell you "oh yeah this instant villain guy here, soz we just had to put someone there to roar and red text at you once in a while".

    The whole thing was a setup to introduce this 7th power, push Anduin and Sylv forward and reveal another big piece of the puzzle they will use in next expansions.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That's just frankly a silly take. It's unclear because it's meant to be unclear - we don't know shit about these First Ones and about what we will find in Sepulcher. And we don't know why Jailer guns for it either. It is by definition a mystery.

    We don't know not because "shit storytelling", but because we're not meant to know at this point.
    I mean the only way we can defeat him or jail him is to forge covenant keys (which we will in convenant campaign).

    I doubt 20 players would do damage to him

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by guldin View Post
    I mean the only way we can defeat him or jail him is to forge covenant keys (which we will in convenant campaign).

    I doubt 20 players would do damage to him
    Of course we will get some Deus ex machina to ultimately deal with him as per custom. You can bet that Tomb of First Ones has something and we still have covenant leaders and what not as well, like Primus alone was squaring off with Jailer fine until Mawduin popped up.

    It's like BFA/Legion, we got pewpewlazor and titanbois respectively, so now we will have covenant leaders joining in. Sure Zovaal is all juiced up, but Primus + Winter Queen + Krestia aren't exactly powerless themselves.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2021-07-10 at 12:06 AM.
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by FAILoZOFF View Post
    What could that be Zovaal is speaking about? I have been thinking some time ago that WoW could use some sort of "reset", mayhaps it is their plan to do so story wise through ending of Shadowlands with Zovaal's victory and doing... something? Power creep has gone wild good time ago, we are fighting titans, titans+, so what's next? titans+++? I mean it doesn't have ANY meaning at this point and breaks any sort of immersion... immensly.
    IMHO best case scenario would be announcement of WoW2 instead of WoW 10.0 or 11.0 at this point; to clear ties with ~20years code, fktylion of in game stuff you have to maintenance regularly like quests, items, systems etc. inconsistent graphics quality (imagine having gta3 models in gta5... and thats what is happening in WoW rn).
    What do you think? I mean i don't really expect it, rather further ducktaping and milking current game would be my bet, buut... I don't know, it seems like it would be a good opportunity if done right (which with current blizz attitude is not likely, but hey).
    Wow 2 will never happen, risk is much too high

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by FAILoZOFF View Post
    What could that be Zovaal is speaking about? I have been thinking some time ago that WoW could use some sort of "reset", mayhaps it is their plan to do so story wise through ending of Shadowlands with Zovaal's victory and doing... something? Power creep has gone wild good time ago, we are fighting titans, titans+, so what's next? titans+++? I mean it doesn't have ANY meaning at this point and breaks any sort of immersion... immensly.
    Quote Originally Posted by guldin View Post
    Since Zovaal is the new baddie that is titan++ (descriped by Blizzard), I highly doubt he will be an endboss anytime soon.
    It should be clarified, Zovaal was referred to as a Titan-level antagonist in a group interview with Ion. WoWhead then decided to embellish the comment and call Zovaal Titan "plus plus" level antagonist. Keep in mind that the WoWHead article also had several publication errors as well, such as referring to Gul'dan as the final boss of WoD instead of Archimonde, when Archimonde was what Ion had said.
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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Of course we will get some Deus ex machina to ultimately deal with him as per custom. You can bet that Tomb of First Ones has something and we still have covenant leaders and what not as well, like Primus alone was squaring off with Jailer fine until Mawduin popped up.
    I wouldn't even compare it to Duex ex. It's obvious Blizzard took inspiriation from Marvel Infinity War and Endgame. The lore is very predicatble. People predicted Sylvanas fate and here we are, what we heared for 8 months, happend.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Deventh View Post
    You don't kill the cow until it's milked dry. WoW 2 won't happen until silly people stop giving Blizzard money for 10 months of no content.
    This number gets higher every time. Hyperbolic talking points get you nowhere.

    But as for the jailer I hope his reality remaking is so thorough he deletes retail wow and heavily monetizes classic iterations so much no one will play them. Give everyone the freedom to move on from blizzard’s machinations.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    Every single villain, with maybe a handful of exceptions, has been a one and done villain.
    The horde and alliance were at war in 1994
    We've been fighting the burning legion since 1995
    The scourge since 2002
    The old gods since vanilla

    Hell other than the mogu and then AU fanfiction horde (and probably the jailer) I would say most warcraft villains are far from one and done.
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  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by guldin View Post
    I wouldn't even compare it to Duex ex. It's obvious Blizzard took inspiriation from Marvel Infinity War and Endgame. The lore is very predicatble. People predicted Sylvanas fate and here we are, what we heared for 8 months, happend.
    That's kind of a silly take too.

    Blizzard did not take inspiration from Marvel, we simply naturally got there over the course of 27 years of Warcraft. Already in Warcraft 1 we had concept of invaders from another realm, which got further fleshed out with Warcraft 2 and beyond the dark portal expansion and of course Warcraft 3 with cosmic powers creeping in.

    We tussled with powers far beyond Azeroth even before World of Warcraft was a thing. In Vanilla we were introduced to Titans and Old Gods (one can argue Old Gods came/teased in WIII Frozen Throne) - the whole game was setup to eventual discovery and confrontation with powers from beyond, certainly TBC+, long before MCU was even a thing.

    Yes, after a decade of WoW we finally started taking peeks and potshots at these powers, which is really natural for a game in such a universe. The whole things happening few last expansions are simply natural evolution expected in such games, you can't stay in same spot digging through animal shit in Redridge when you already took down biggest and notables like Lich King, Deathwing and slapped Kiljaeden, the literal no.2 in the cosmic Burning Legion on his face.

    We simply worked our way up and it was inevitable. It has nothing to do with Marvel or crap like that.
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    The horde and alliance were at war in 1994
    We've been fighting the burning legion since 1995
    The scourge since 2002
    The old gods since vanilla

    Hell other than the mogu and then AU fanfiction horde (and probably the jailer) I would say most warcraft villains are far from one and done.
    I'm specifically talking about WoW, not the other games. Also you've given examples of enemy forces, not a one and done villain. with the exception of Kil'jaeden, Onyxia, Nefarion, Kael'thas, Kel'thuzad, Il'gynoth, Ra-den and Helya we've not had to face enemies more than once (that list is to the best of my knowledge) outside of raids and dungeons. You specifically mentioned the Old Gods as a collective but individually we beat them in a patch and that was it; we moved on

  15. #55
    Do you think Zovaal will change reality? Other forces in the multiverse can try to stop him.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by FAILoZOFF View Post
    yeah, well, that could be the case as well- sadly
    why would anyone be planning "4d chess" when they can't even do checkers right in the first place?
    The Dreadlords are the real 4d chess players everyone else just dancing to their tune.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    I'm specifically talking about WoW, not the other games. Also you've given examples of enemy forces, not a one and done villain. with the exception of Kil'jaeden, Onyxia, Nefarion, Kael'thas, Kel'thuzad, Il'gynoth, Ra-den and Helya we've not had to face enemies more than once (that list is to the best of my knowledge) outside of raids and dungeons. You specifically mentioned the Old Gods as a collective but individually we beat them in a patch and that was it; we moved on
    I think the sentiment you're trying to convey is that whenever we get a name and face for a big baddie in WoW, they tend to not last an expansion. Instead, we get vague enemies or villain-of-the-day, then things go back to "normal" or get reset at the end of an expansion. In some respects, Sargeras and his Burning Legion were the only real pervasive and defined threat that has spanned the expansions and was established in Warcraft 3, even if they took the back-burner, but that's basically ended with Legion.

    Currently, if you try to think of who the big bad of WoW is right now, the answer is kind of hard... you can maybe say Old Gods, but we've basically "beaten" every single Old God we know. I'd equate the Old Gods and the Void to almost a boogeyman of sorts, as it's hard to figure out what threat is from them right now while they are always considered a threat in the back of our minds. However, for narrative purposes, I think it would be better if Zovaal continues to be the big bad beyond this expansion as we currently lack a definitive threat that actually lasts. Doesn't help that we constantly go from minor disturbance to reality-changing events in one expansion, as the way the narration is done in WoW is anything but a slow escalation.

    In fact, it's one of the reasons why I think the storytelling suffers in WoW: the story escalates insanely fast in such a short time, which is ironic since the literal real-life time between plot events is bloody long. There's no effort to flesh out and build a cohesive narrative, and in-game events tend to brush over things. For example, the Battle of Ardenweald experience for the player was one-shot some mobs, click a few things, and cutscenes blow through the story of stuff that doesn't even directly involve the player... and that's it. There was barely any effort to build up the event into something that would convey a battle. The game would be much more satisfying (especially from a storytelling perspective) if there was more effort put into building up the stories instead of treating villains and plot lines like expansion systems.
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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by FAILoZOFF View Post
    What could that be Zovaal is speaking about? I have been thinking some time ago that WoW could use some sort of "reset", mayhaps it is their plan to do so story wise through ending of Shadowlands with Zovaal's victory and doing... something? Power creep has gone wild good time ago, we are fighting titans, titans+, so what's next? titans+++? I mean it doesn't have ANY meaning at this point and breaks any sort of immersion... immensly.
    IMHO best case scenario would be announcement of WoW2 instead of WoW 10.0 or 11.0 at this point; to clear ties with ~20years code, fktylion of in game stuff you have to maintenance regularly like quests, items, systems etc. inconsistent graphics quality (imagine having gta3 models in gta5... and thats what is happening in WoW rn).
    What do you think? I mean i don't really expect it, rather further ducktaping and milking current game would be my bet, buut... I don't know, it seems like it would be a good opportunity if done right (which with current blizz attitude is not likely, but hey).
    Unlikely.
    We still haven't dealt with the forces of the Light and Void. We still haven't visited the Dragon Isles. We haven't dealt with the forces of Life. We haven't been to the Titan homeworld. They just introduced the First ones recently. They wouldn't throw it all away just to restart the game.

    What i guess Zovaal is trying to do is mess with the timeline, just like the Infinite Dragonflight. Would it reset the entire game? i don't think so. It might revamp some of the older zones.
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  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by TBCCLOL View Post
    Classic - We fought bandit-cultist-explored maraudon then went vs Giant and Elementals-Dragons-Insectoid and their God-Undead AND WE STILL WERE ADVENTURERS

    TBC - We went with the alliance-horde expedition beat 2 Elves 1 Naga and repelled a Legion invasion. BECAME HEROES but STILL with some help like Maiev at BT and Kalegos at Sunwell /// so we werent insane god like begins
    Meanwhile in Final Fantasy you are the Warrior of Light, simply because you logged into ARR.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmatrix View Post
    Meanwhile in Final Fantasy you are the Warrior of Light, simply because you logged into ARR.
    Being the Hero is not that much of a problem, you can always write scenarios where we have to pretend to be someone else, etc. The problem arises from the way the story treats you. In WoW we are champions of the factions, often even the whole world, yet we still get told to sift through shit because our status is utterly meaningless and we have no agency even within the story (not just gameplay based). The story isn't written in a way to incorporate us, we are there to show off how "cool" (whatever Blizzard thinks constitutes that) some of their favorite characters are, our job is to spam our impotent rotations until the cutscene/dialogue triggers.

    In FFXIV the writing is clever enough to make you feel like the NPCs work actually with you, instead of you being their bitch. Your power is also rather specific and contextual, you aren't given the power to level mountains only to use it never again. Frankly Blizzard tried to copy some of the concepts in BfA, but they did such a poor job, they essentially tried to pull a justice league when they wanted an avengers crossover.
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