Seriously, what do you really want to see I. World of Warcraft ?

[username993720]

No, but Azeroth does. And those races are on Azeroth so...

No, but yes? That's what you actually said.
What does Azeroth have to do with it? Orcs on Draenor didn't have Warlocks? Draenei on Argus? the location doesn't matter. The individuals do.

Why are you fixated on Grimtotem ? Tauren pirates also exist here and there. Rogues have a pirate spec.
I'm saying you don't have to solely rely on the Grimtotem tribe to have your Tauren Rogues.

Tauren Pirates are just niche characters, like Infinite Dragon pirate.

Not sure what is your point, but thanks for dumping lore I already know.

My point is that they are against nature in any way.

You can preserve a unique feeling if you do it right. Paladin and Priest Class Orders were not really done right, so you kinda lost the uniqueness of the different racial interpretations, yeah.

That's exactly why i don't want general class/race combinations.

Not too sure about that. The constant retcons of a lore that was not flexible enough to allow smooth integration of new content is what downgrades it, imo.

Like what?

[Magnagarde]

At this point they need to embrace the problems they've written themselves into and try to actually make something out of it. Revamp Azeroth, make all the zones relevant content-wise(through events, event currencies, scenarios and quests) and just expand the frontier beyond Azeroth. Nothing is stopping them from having players explore new worlds at this point. Instead of trying to rethread stories already told and pretty much wrapped up, they need to, ironically, expand in a down-to-earth cosmic way.

This would allow to keep the story grand, yet still simple, because every new world would be a World of Warcraft Classic experience unto itself. Go to World X, establish nations, footholds and stories, adapt to the environment, deal with the problems of the world and then continously expand through World Y and new problems on World X. It sort of also gives creative freedom to the new developers and storytellers because, let's face it, Warcraft is not a child of their imagination and their imagination's aspiration. No strings attached. This would however require a large force of creative writers and developers who would have to be passionate about what they're doing and I sadly don't see that being the case.

Space travel is a concept that's been set in stone back in TBC and was massively expanded on in Legion. No reason not to utilize it at this point. What they're doing now is rethreading the stories of known characters, stories that could've, should've and have been wrapped up a long time ago(ie Garrosh, Sylvanas, Thrall, Uther).

[DatToffer]

No, but yes? That's what you actually said.
What does Azeroth have to do with it? Orcs on Draenor didn't have Warlocks? Draenei on Argus? the location doesn't matter. The individuals do.

Okay... I'm starting to feel like I can't make myself understood, sorry about that.

So what I was saying is that even if all races don't have occult books on demonic rituals, Azeroth has enough. And those races are now on Azeroth. So they can find these books. So. In reality. Any race who can birth opportunistic little twerps (every race really) can access the warlock class.

Tauren Pirates are just niche characters, like Infinite Dragon pirate.

Yeah but this niche also has a fitting niche in the Rogue gameplay. So there's really no need to be adamant on the "Rogue Taurens are Grimtotem" thing.

My point is that they are against nature in any way.

I'm not sure "pushed along" has the same meaning as "being against". I'd understood if he said "pushed away". My understanding is that he thinks Nature needs to be altered in order to keep up with the progress of science. It needs to "pushed along" with the mechagnome's progress.

That's exactly why i don't want general class/race combinations.

Ultimately, I don't really care about what you don't want. I'm just thinking of some ways we could get rid of class/race combinations.

It's cool you have these objections though. It keeps me thinking and questioning the concept and how it could be well done.

Like what?

Like writing a book that is supposed to be absolute truth, only to see it being disproved and relegated to a "Pov of" thing.

Chronicles was not flexible enough, it became an obstacle to the new lore team. That didn't stop them from writing shit and retconing things, since they used the cheatcode of "it's actually the Titans pov". And, there was plenty of lore in Chronicles, even if they oversimplified the Second War in the worse ways possible.

[Beloren]

I think it works if they did the BFA route - do a full story of the newest races so that when the expansion concludes we're just adding more flavor down the line instead of abandoning entire broken kingdoms. BC tried to do this for BEs, but they only solved the addiction. Literally, nothing else about their situation was salvaged. Even the Nightborne have a reclaimed beautiful city and safe home.

The Tauren needs something more than others, because I can't help but feel like the High Mountain are just the superior version of what our cows shoud've been.

Yeh. I’ve heard this said a lot. TBC is the only expansion that really closed a story loop it started. Blood elves get delivered. Quel’thalas gets saved and the Sunwell restored.

Only problem is the zone was never updated to show this and Ofc no nee blood elf specific stories arising.

Bow once you’ve had a big storyline in game like night elves and blood elves have got. You don’t need to plan massive activity with them. They should get a smoother less dramatic story of development that shows them regaining strength maybe even capturing measures of their former glory or at least well on their way.

They’ll experience challenges and nuanced experiences because of the complexity of their story. But they can save the bigger scale drama for races that haven’t really had that.

But they need to show it.

I think a massive world revamp then
Race campaigns becoming a thing alongside main expansion storylines.

[username993720]

Okay... I'm starting to feel like I can't make myself understood, sorry about that.

So what I was saying is that even if all races don't have occult books on demonic rituals, Azeroth has enough. And those races are now on Azeroth. So they can find these books. So. In reality. Any race who can birth opportunistic little twerps (every race really) can access the warlock class.

It's not a matter of if books are available. It's a matter of the will of races to delve into such dark arts.

Yeah but this niche also has a fitting niche in the Rogue gameplay. So there's really no need to be adamant on the "Rogue Taurens are Grimtotem" thing.

Because Tauren don't have a culture of piracy. One NPC is not indicative of an entire race.

I'm not sure "pushed along" has the same meaning as "being against". I'd understood if he said "pushed away". My understanding is that he thinks Nature needs to be altered in order to keep up with the progress of science. It needs to "pushed along" with the mechagnome's progress.

The way i see it is "nature should be pushed aside". And, it makes sense, because they are about a mechanical utopia, not a natural one.

Ultimately, I don't really care about what you don't want. I'm just thinking of some ways we could get rid of class/race combinations.

And i'm thinking of ways they could keep it.

It's cool you have these objections though. It keeps me thinking and questioning the concept and how it could be well done.

Good to know.

Like writing a book that is supposed to be absolute truth, only to see it being disproved and relegated to a "Pov of" thing.

Chronicles was not flexible enough, it became an obstacle to the new lore team. That didn't stop them from writing shit and retconing things, since they used the cheatcode of "it's actually the Titans pov". And, there was plenty of lore in Chronicles, even if they oversimplified the Second War in the worse ways possible.

Yeah, the Chronicles not lasting long was probably inevitable, as they had to come up with new lore for the Shadowlands.

[Beloren]

Replying to a much earlier post but... that.. could have some legs. Tie up all the old content, some "ok, this guy was lvl 23 last time" type "bosses" but... I'm sure they could add a little more flare somewhere.
Tidy all that kinda stuff up so they have a spring cleaned world to build on.
As it happens, they've tried tbc again, wrath again... cata again (world cleanse wise)

This... might be "nice". Some nostalgia with older stories revisited and seen "on" if not "through".

Remake or time skip then? That would do the job?

[Paperfox]

There's always one more big bad, and a new undiscovered form of magic. In SL that happens to be called the Jailer and Domination Magic. Then it'll be something else.

There are millions of numbers between 0 and 1.

[DatToffer]

It's a matter of the will of races to delve into such dark arts.

Yes. A matter I covered by saying everyone has the potential to be a power hungry motherf*ker. Even draenei. Even... Would I dare say it... Lightforged.

Because Tauren don't have a culture of piracy. One NPC is not indicative of an entire race.

Maybe, but again, that's not the point. The point is not reducing the concept of Tauren Rogues to just "they are Grimtotem mofos". If Grimtotem can be stealthy bitches, they can teach others to be. If some tauren have it in them to become pirates, that means you can play your Outlaw sea-cow.

The way i see it is "nature should be pushed aside". And, it makes sense, because they are about a mechanical utopia, not a natural one.

Yeah, but Erazmin doesn't strike me as a mechagnome with that kind of vision. Looks more like his father's view on things. Anyway. My idea of Mechagnome druids would rely on mecha animal forms. So they don't really have to "respect" Nature and shit. Just emulate the ways of druidism.

And i'm thinking of ways they could keep it.

Fair enough. Not every debate is meant to end up in compromises. Especially for things that are actually just wishful thinking.

Yeah, the Chronicles not lasting long was probably inevitable, as they had to come up with new lore for the Shadowlands.

Yeah. The way it was set, either the new team had to comply to the lore of the book, or the book should have been written in a way that made it easier to "alter", I guess.

[username993720]

Yes. A matter I covered by saying everyone has the potential to be a power hungry motherf*ker. Even draenei. Even... Would I dare say it... Lightforged.

Yes, and these power hungry mofos are called the Eredar.
Lightforged are, literally, infused by the light and have a counter-demon racial. So, i doubt it.

Maybe, but again, that's not the point. The point is not reducing the concept of Tauren Rogues to just "they are Grimtotem mofos". If Grimtotem can be stealthy bitches, they can teach others to be. If some tauren have it in them to become pirates, that means you can play your Outlaw sea-cow.

That's individual roleplay, not the lore behind that race/class combination. Because saying everyone can be whatever they want is not really a good reasoning behind a race picking up an art.

Yeah, but Erazmin doesn't strike me as a mechagnome with that kind of vision. Looks more like his father's view on things. Anyway. My idea of Mechagnome druids would rely on mecha animal forms. So they don't really have to "respect" Nature and shit. Just emulate the ways of druidism.

He preaches for balance between mechanization and Humanity. Which i haven't thought about, but is similar to Gilneans preaching balance between Worgen and Human forms. I'll give you that.

You can't just turn Druids into a mechanical class. They still have nature to account for. You should leave that to the Tinker.

[Beloren]

@DatToffer gnosis how botanist could be about the balance between natural organic and the mechanical rather than nature and the arcane which is a night elf theme.

Everyone knows that the arcane and nature are the night elves biggest thing and their calamity started from an imbalance in their lives between the two and now they are finding balance helping both arcane and nature night elven communities like Nightborne/Highborne and Druids too

Gnomes could be about the organic and the mechanical. To gnomes the mechanical is a real world of itself. They are built originally from it. But they also became organic and they seem to have this struggle between the teo. Some find balance some don’t and they could apply Druidic principles to this state. It could be an interesting Avenue. Just like it is for night elves.

It took me a while to realise that the night elves think was actually this contending between arcane and nature and reaching balance between the two as a major theme.

We could have the organic and mechanical be the thing for Mechagnomes and probably have a night elf connection through that.

[username993720]

@DatToffer gnosis how botanist could be about the balance between natural organic and the mechanical rather than nature and the arcane which is a night elf theme.

Everyone knows that the arcane and nature are the night elves biggest thing and their calamity started from an imbalance in their lives between the two and now they are finding balance helping both arcane and nature night elven communities like Nightborne/Highborne and Druids too

Gnomes could be about the organic and the mechanical. To gnomes the mechanical is a real world of itself. They are built originally from it. But they also became organic and they seem to have this struggle between the teo. Some find balance some don’t and they could apply Druidic principles to this state. It could be an interesting Avenue. Just like it is for night elves.

It took me a while to realise that the night elves think was actually this contending between arcane and nature and reaching balance between the two as a major theme.

We could have the organic and mechanical be the thing for Mechagnomes and probably have a night elf connection through that.

You know what. If they can make this (fake plants) into their Druidic class:


Then, i can somehow see it.

[DatToffer]

You can't just turn Druids into a mechanical class.

WATCH ME

You know what. If they can make this (fake plants) into their Druidic class:

Then, i can somehow see it.

Lol. Imagine a fake treant form made of metal scraps

gnosis how botanist could be about the balance between natural organic and the mechanical rather than nature and the arcane which is a night elf theme.

Everyone knows that the arcane and nature are the night elves biggest thing and their calamity started from an imbalance in their lives between the two and now they are finding balance helping both arcane and nature night elven communities like Nightborne/Highborne and Druids too

Gnomes could be about the organic and the mechanical. To gnomes the mechanical is a real world of itself. They are built originally from it. But they also became organic and they seem to have this struggle between the teo. Some find balance some don’t and they could apply Druidic principles to this state. It could be an interesting Avenue. Just like it is for night elves.

It took me a while to realise that the night elves think was actually this contending between arcane and nature and reaching balance between the two as a major theme.

We could have the organic and mechanical be the thing for Mechagnomes and probably have a night elf connection through that.

Agreed.

But I don't entirely follow. Night elves had forsaken Arcane, until they took back their Highborne. I find them still leaning very much on the side of Nature, and just accepting Arcane on the side.

Nightborne balanced Arcane and Nature on a very fundamental level, with the arcan'dor. But they also lean towards Arcane, in practice.

Not sure you can call it balance, but Quel'thalas forests were shaped by Arcane to some extent. But their practices are not so much balanced either, I'd say.

Night elves don't really strike me as the best example of Arcane/Nature balance. But I don't think any of the elf race really does.

[sighy]

Yes, and these power hungry mofos are called the Eredar.
Lightforged are, literally, infused by the light and have a counter-demon racial. So, i doubt it.

It'S all sunshine and rainbows, until they enslave entire populations against their will and turn worlds into glass, ahem i meant crystal.

Yrel, Xera, worlds from Alleria's visions, part of Ravendreth... Blizzard is building toward something.


Any cosmic force has a way of producing it's unique brand of unsavory characters. Light just happens to be overzealous self righteous superiority complex, which dictated you will be saved by the light weather you want it or not.

(Nature's more icky side was explored with the Spore Mounds, on AltDreanor, Void is obvious, Fel is obvious and so forth.

[Deferionus]

what i want to see is either reset or jump 100 years and start fresh new lore that is already built for MANY exp so we get ZERO retcon ever again
I hate current state of bullshit lore, but i still prefer 100 year jump over 'reset' because i hate idea of just 'reset' to cancel anything even if u don't like, and i assure u i don't like a LOT of current wow lore
That's for lore
Gameplay is easy, give me wrath talents + MoP class design, improve on it, do NOT delete anything from it at all
for professions: again wrath style, each profession had its own unique buff and utility
return back to duel spec, give ur spec a little more meaning, instead of now just random roll everything
honestly most of wrath was great except LFG, remove that
remove WQs, dailies are way better, at least u know there is a quest in that zone today anytime u log, instead of random bullshit wq that some stay 6 hours, some stays 3 days, some stays 12, so random u can't plan anything (at least accurate, which on long term IS a big deal)
Lastly and again really important, stick to ur guns, if u kill Kael, don't ever return to him, i hated how he died, but i hate even more digging his grave, I hate Illidan return, create new characters, it says something when most successful pure wow character is a character u flat out admit that half of lore team didn't know what other half was doing with him in Cata (Garrosh if not obvious)

Another really important part: be honest, Ion as wow player is almost exact opposite of Ion as game developer, he is supposed to be head designer of wow, the guy who has the last say of everything, did he really change, or he is forced to design game that please higher ups? BE HONEST, who IS in charge exactly? Why is Danusur, a guy universally hated, the worst toxic fan of Sylvanas who has her body pillow, in charge of lore!? why did u hire a writer for 2 books who is flat out feminazi anti-white males only because she is cousin of a higher up in actiblizz?

Will that improve wow? it will improve blizz itself imo not just wow, will they do that? No way, u don't listen to cockroaches opinion, and Kodick view of us even lower than cockroaches as his talk implemented before

And before anyone say u must 'work', u don't need to be pilot to understand if a helicopter crashed or not

Man WQs are such an improvement on daily quests. A WQ is literally a daily quest that you don't have to pick up in your quest log. If they use the old daily formula it literally becomes this process:

1) Enter Zone
2) Fly to daily hub to pick up quest
3) Fly to objective
4) Do objective
5) Fly to daily hub to turn in

This is with WoW still having the 25 quest limit so if you are early in the expac and trying to complete everything picking up 6 daily quests can be a PITA.

WQ formula is:

1) Enter zone
2) Fly to objective
3) Do objective.

You have half the steps. It is far more convenient and you don't need to worry about the quest limit. I don't understand why people advocate for dailies when they are inferior in every way. It seems the beef is more with the rotation of the quests and which ones are available. To me the better feedback seems to be "Make WQs a standard three day availability" or "Make the same WQs always available and not rotate them" than to go back to dailies.

[sighy]

Yeh. I’ve heard this said a lot. TBC is the only expansion that really closed a story loop it started. Blood elves get delivered. Quel’thalas gets saved and the Sunwell restored.

After thinking about it pretty sure the wrecked sunwell mana addict thing was a Warcraft 3 The Frozen Throne plotline, which ended with Illidan teaching KAel'thas stuff.

[arandomuser]

1- they actually are, in fact i just discovered that now and will make a topic about it
2- i'll never play another mmo, warcraft isn't a 'game' for me, it is a huge chunk of my life itself, i play it since i was 6 years old, i made a LOT of custom maps in wc2, played wc3 and sneaked to play at nights, for me i prefer that part of my life dies happy than be replaced by anything else, yeah died with a wimp sadly but better than just replace it, because i can't replace 30 years old memories

unrelated not i didn't report ur post and didn't find it that offensive tbh, well it's up to forums manager i guess

SO i get infracted because my RESPONSE to this guy had the meme HE POSTED and yet the origiinal post stays, no infraction, i guess its pretty much confirmed then the mods are like ok with reactiony right wingers but if you question them you get silenced, for..reposting their own content..ok lol

[sam86]

-snip-

u can keep same format of pick quest when u enter WQ style, but make ALL wqs on 24h timer like dailies, that simple
not picking quests from a quest giver is a good idea (imo better make daily quests a separate quest tab), but making them random timers for random periods is bullshit idea and need to return to 24 routine

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

The Alliance and the Horde should be more active into seeking new members and allies or into making too often forgotten and neglected allies official members, such as the High Elves, the Ogres, Forrest Trolls, Frostborn, Taunkas, Hozens, Jinyus, etc...

After Legion the Alliance should have tried to befriend and recruit the Tideskorn Vrykuls after Sylvanas' actions in Stormheim and Genn Greymane having foiled her plans and freed Eyir.

[username993720]

It'S all sunshine and rainbows, until they enslave entire populations against their will and turn worlds into glass, ahem i meant crystal.

Yrel, Xera, worlds from Alleria's visions, part of Ravendreth... Blizzard is building toward something.


Any cosmic force has a way of producing it's unique brand of unsavory characters. Light just happens to be overzealous self righteous superiority complex, which dictated you will be saved by the light weather you want it or not.

(Nature's more icky side was explored with the Spore Mounds, on AltDreanor, Void is obvious, Fel is obvious and so forth.

It still doesn't make them Warlocks.

The Alliance and the Horde should be more active into seeking new members and allies or into making too often forgotten and neglected allies official members, such as the High Elves, the Ogres, Forrest Trolls, Frostborn, Taunkas, Hozens, Jinyus, etc...

After Legion the Alliance should have tried to befriend and recruit the Tideskorn Vrykuls after Sylvanas' actions in Stormheim and Genn Greymane having foiled her plans and freed Eyir.

High elves are already customizable options.
Ogres and Forest Trolls are long overdue. The fact that the playable Troll didn't even get a Forest Troll skin was really suspicious...
Kul Tirans and Maldraxxus Gladiators being chubby is kinda indicative for playable Ogres.

As for the Forstborn, Taunkas, Hozen and Jinyu, they should definitely be more active in the factions' storylines. As for their playability, i don't know...

Vrykul should be the Ogre's counterpart on the Alliance if you ask me.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

For characters that are Smug snakes to stop being treated as if they were so brillant and dangerous with them not being so intelligent after all and having many glaring flaws in their plans and methods, yet constantly winning or getting away scott free for too long, such as it was for Garrosh, Sylvanas and Nathanos Blightcaller. This is like saying that Cersei Lannister is the main player and threat in Westeros in ASOIAF, which is exactly what the directors and writers of GOT tried to make us believe in the last seasons of the adaptation series.

It's especially glaring in Sylvanas' case due to how easy it was for Varimathras and the Jailer to play her like a fiddle.

What the story needs is true chessmasters and magnificent bastards.