Page 1 of 9
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1

    Who's to blame here?

    Who's to blame here?


    [1]Blizzard for developing such systems where it breeds toxic behaviour or the type of players that are in the WoW Community?


    Scenario Case:

    Mythic+ as a function is great idea. It produces replayability, may replace raiding to an extent, but the premade LFG system is a disaster. I now see people more speaking about the mythic+ situation, where you get declined for many hours at a time, leaving majority of players frustrated.

    On the flip side I understand mythic+ key holders want a smooth/fast run, because it is too punshing if you fail, the cycle will continue, unless Blizzard decides to lesser the punishements, then people wouldn't care about success/failure ratio and decrease the decline ratio followed by increased Accept ratio in the LFG Premade tool.

    Coming back to the point made in [1], who is to blame, at the end of the day?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by dominatedd View Post
    Who's to blame here?


    [1]Blizzard for developing such systems where it breeds toxic behaviour or the type of players that are in the WoW Community?


    Scenario Case:

    Mythic+ as a function is great idea. It produces replayability, may replace raiding to an extent, but the premade LFG system is a disaster. I now see people more speaking about the mythic+ situation, where you get declined for many hours at a time, leaving majority of players frustrated.

    On the flip side I understand mythic+ key holders want a smooth/fast run, because it is too punshing if you fail, the cycle will continue, unless Blizzard decides to lesser the punishements, then people wouldn't care about success/failure ratio and decrease the decline ratio followed by increased Accept ratio in the LFG Premade tool.

    Coming back to the point made in [1], who is to blame, at the end of the day?
    That's easy- BOTH

    1) Players are completely responsible for their own behavior. Just because the reward system is poorly designed does not give someone free reign to act like a douche. Those people are childish and immature (obviously).

    2) Blizz does bear responsibility towards the community in it's games and the poor design of a reward/ end game system that directly promotes this behavior.
    To just throw up your hands and say something like "it's a community problem" just makes them look ignorant, lazy and ineffective (they can't fix the system they designed).

    If I had to chose who was more at fault, I would say Blizzard for one reason:

    They allow the situation to continue because they profit off it and they don't want to crack down on the try hards because they are afraid to lose subs. When you take the money, the responsibility comes with it, whether you like it or not.

  3. #3
    Every single system from every game in the history of gaming, has a way of "breeding toxic behaviour" - I challenge you to find one that isn't. Even something as benign as transmogs can make people toxic.

    At the end of the day, the players are responsible for their own behaviour, nobody else. Systems don't inherently breed toxicity. People who are unable to control their feelings towards them, do.

    It's easy to pin blame on something else, because people in general online don't like owning up to their own shortcomings as a person.
    Last edited by Ryzeth; 2021-07-21 at 01:05 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by dominatedd View Post
    Who's to blame here?


    [1]Blizzard for developing such systems where it breeds toxic behaviour or the type of players that are in the WoW Community?


    Scenario Case:

    Mythic+ as a function is great idea. It produces replayability, may replace raiding to an extent, but the premade LFG system is a disaster. I now see people more speaking about the mythic+ situation, where you get declined for many hours at a time, leaving majority of players frustrated.

    On the flip side I understand mythic+ key holders want a smooth/fast run, because it is too punshing if you fail, the cycle will continue, unless Blizzard decides to lesser the punishements, then people wouldn't care about success/failure ratio and decrease the decline ratio followed by increased Accept ratio in the LFG Premade tool.

    Coming back to the point made in [1], who is to blame, at the end of the day?
    The players that believe they are all equal and because a small % of the game population can do all content with minimal communication through the fact they have game experience, somehow reflects that everyone can do it.

    Get a guild or a similarly minded group of players and stop complaining about non-existent problems.

    Or, train yourself to be part of that %, but no, its easier to just whine on forums about a time in the last millenia where that person did some dungeon that should take 1 hour in 12 hours and that somehow is relevant to the game in 2021.
    Last edited by potis; 2021-07-21 at 01:14 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzeth View Post
    Every single system from every game in the history of gaming, has a way of "breeding toxic behaviour" - I challenge you to find one that isn't. Even something as benign as transmogs can make people toxic.

    At the end of the day, the players are responsible for their own behaviour, nobody else. Systems don't inherently breed toxicity. People who are unable to control their feelings towards them, do.

    It's easy to pin blame on something else, because people in general online don't like owning up to their own shortcomings as a person.
    Right, but coming back to my case, Mythic+ is too punishing, hence why keystone holders are taking the time to find that perfect group not realising that they are declining vast majority of the sign ups. The problem here is that Blizzard made the Mythic+ in a way that breeds that kind of behaviour.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    The players that believe they are all equal and because a small % of the game population can do all content with minimal communication through the fact they have game experience, somehow reflects that everyone can do it.

    Get a guild or a similarly minded group of players and stop complaining about non-existent problems.
    Yet, it's a huge problem.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by dominatedd View Post
    Yet, it's a huge problem.
    It isnt, stop trying to play outside your comfort level and slowly rise with the rest of your kind and there wont be any problems.

    But no, complain about it instead.

    Yes the system isnt perfect but the system is there for a reason, you cant be rewarded for logging on or simply doing things.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dominatedd View Post
    Right, but coming back to my case, Mythic+ is too punishing, hence why keystone holders are taking the time to find that perfect group not realising that they are declining vast majority of the sign ups. The problem here is that Blizzard made the Mythic+ in a way that breeds that kind of behaviour.
    i do agree that the difficulty level of the weekly key is creeping up over time and might be getting a bit too high. if the weekly chore is too difficult that just breeds negativity all round.

    but most people i decline is simply because there are only 5 spots in my group, and that's a hard nut to crack no matter the system.

    i'm personally a fan of turning 5 mans to 6 mans, should help alleviate the overabundance of dps players a lot.

  8. #8
    If content is hard people will be picky about who they bring with them, it only makes logical sense.

    If they nerfed M+ so it was not difficult at all people would complain its boring baby content and just there to waist time.

  9. #9
    Herald of the Titans Clone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Kamino
    Posts
    2,595
    Should do away with keys really and just let people select the difficulty they want.

  10. #10
    Pit Lord Nutri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    This thread
    Posts
    2,436
    If getting declined is the main reason for your post, explain to me why you're not making your own groups.

  11. #11
    I'm very big on having personal responsibility on how I act against others so I blame players to 90%.
    Ofc if someone is prodded enough times they will snap or if they provoked it can be understandable... but yeah, players behaviour against others is on them.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    i do agree that the difficulty level of the weekly key is creeping up over time and might be getting a bit too high. if the weekly chore is too difficult that just breeds negativity all round.

    but most people i decline is simply because there are only 5 spots in my group, and that's a hard nut to crack no matter the system.

    i'm personally a fan of turning 5 mans to 6 mans, should help alleviate the overabundance of dps players a lot.

    You decline most people, because you presume high ilvel will equal to a faster/successful run. I don't blame you for that, it's the punishment for failure that Mythic+ provides which I have problem with and it goes back to my [1] argument, who is to blame.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    I'm very big on having personal responsibility on how I act against others so I blame players to 90%.
    Ofc if someone is prodded enough times they will snap or if they provoked it can be understandable... but yeah, players behaviour against others is on them.
    Okey, so you stated that "players behaviour against others is on them." Don't you think that systems in place breed that toxic pathway for the players?

    Let's just say that tommorow, Blizzard made Mythic+ less punishing, not easy, but less punshing. Don't you think that decline/accept ratio would improve?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by dominatedd View Post
    Who's to blame here?...
    This is the wrong question as it doesn't mater. The right question is, "How do you fix it?" Simple answer: Make time spent rewarding... more so if done in time... but not so much so that it's just not worth finishing if you miss the timer. Respect your player's time... to do otherwise only invites frustration.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    No fucking way. The worst idea since democracy.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by dominatedd View Post
    Right, but coming back to my case, Mythic+ is too punishing, hence why keystone holders are taking the time to find that perfect group not realising that they are declining vast majority of the sign ups. The problem here is that Blizzard made the Mythic+ in a way that breeds that kind of behaviour.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yet, it's a huge problem.
    It is neither too punishing, nor a huge problem. Everyone can do a +2.

    What is a problem however is players who want to do higher keys than they are prepared for / able to.

    As always, your perceived problem goes instantly away when you play with friends. Or play your own key. Nobody can decline you from your own key. Just out of curiosity, tell us how and who you choose to invite.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    This is the wrong question as it doesn't mater. The right question is, "How do you fix it?" Simple answer: Make time spent rewarding... more so if done in time... but not so much so that it's just not worth finishing if you miss the timer. Respect your player's time... to do otherwise only invites frustration.
    Yeah, in other words, don't nerf Mythic+ but make it less punishing, which I agree.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by dominatedd View Post
    You decline most people, because you presume high ilvel will equal to a faster/successful run. I don't blame you for that, it's the punishment for failure that Mythic+ provides which I have problem with and it goes back to my [1] argument, who is to blame.
    actually im surprisingly nice about that and don't mind taking whoever as long as we can effectively 4 man the key anyways (aka not yet in this season.)

    usually how it goes is this: me and my buddies are 1 person short for M+. we sign the key. 10+ people sign up almost immediately, and even if we tried to click the first person that signed up as fast as we could, we would still end up declining more people than we'd invite.

    people we actively decline is usually more to do with their armor spec/bloodlust/combatress/etc than their ilvl or score.
    Last edited by Hellobolis; 2021-07-21 at 01:35 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    It is neither too punishing, nor a huge problem. Everyone can do a +2.

    What is a problem however is players who want to do higher keys than they are prepared for / able to.


    As always, your perceived problem goes instantly away when you play with friends. Or play your own key. Nobody can decline you from your own key. Just out of curiosity, tell us how and who you choose to invite.
    I am sorry, but this does not equal to real life terms.

    People get declined, because they are 1 lower ilvl than the next guy.

    It is a huge problem, that you decline majority of the people.

    It is too punshing.

    Feels like you are playing a different game than me

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by dominatedd View Post
    Okey, so you stated that "players behaviour against others is on them." Don't you think that systems in place breed that toxic pathway for the players?
    Toxic personalities(in this specific context) are naturally going towards competitive systems / games. If there isn't any competitiveness, it will be created. The only difference is if it's regulated either by third party or by itself. M+ sort of isn't...
    It also depends on what you mean by toxic. I don't think making your own group and looking for specific players to play with to be toxic... even though it's frustrating at times.

    So in short, does m+ BREED toxicity? No, it does not. Does it try and prevent any toxic behaviour? No, it does not.
    Which makes it fall into players hands. Problem is that players can't really regulate it.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2021-07-21 at 01:44 PM.

  19. #19
    I pugged all the way to 2270 IO in S1 with my necrolord fury warrior.

    I cant get a single invite this season so far. I gave up already.

    My friends stoped playing, i dont have schedule for raiding so I'm done.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Nutri View Post
    If getting declined is the main reason for your post, explain to me why you're not making your own groups.
    I bought SL like 3-4 months after launch and as I was leveling I got to a swamp dungeon in which I had I think 2 quests - one was to kill a boss and the other was I think to loot some quest items from the trash. This isn't even at max level so I queue up and get into a dungeon, but the party just skips everything, the trash, even the boss I needed. After I wrote that I need some trash kills and the second boss(I think) they just said nobody is doing that, they don't wanna waste time and they kicked me.

    This is a leveling dungeon and the quest I needed would have taken like 3 minutes more than their normal path.

    At that point I knew there was no way I was doing M+ if people are this toxic even in leveling dungeons. It didn't matter anyway because I found the max level experience of SL to be utter dogshite and uninstalled shortly after playing around the covenant and maw.

    I was very displeased by my friend who insisted Shadowlands was so good. 60 euros to experience some toxicity and the newest max level grind fest of covenant levels, anima, ash and whatever other shit they had me grind in the Maw, on foot even and if I wanted to mount up I had to do boring ass Torghast where there's literally no reward for doing hours long corridors of unfun.

    Is it any wonder the community is toxic and always in a hurry? Almost every system in retail now disrespects your time spent in the game. I have no idea why my bro plays this... thing.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •