Night Elf Lands Blocked to Horde

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Speaking of Dalaran I always found it really forced how the writers keep enforcing that it's a neutral state despite the majority of its inhabitants being humans, as well as its many High Elves, dwarves and gnomes inhabitants, and how the kingdom was one of the founding and most important members of the original Alliance as well as Khadgar being one of the greatest heroes of the Alliance.

It's just the same as Malfurion, most of the NE druids and the Kaldorei's natural allies not taking part in the defense of Kaldorei lands under the feeble excuse of neutrality.

[Beloren]

You didn't pay much attention to her character then, she is very willing to experiment on mentally handicapped people and use them as canon fodder, sure she is preachy, but it is pretty much lip service if you look at it closely.

She cowered from Jaina in Stormwind. And not once through the suramar camapaugn even when she recovered, did she show any serious display of power.

The alliance have so many powerful elves, they should have given us Elisande. I much prefer the raw power over the subtle touch.

In my eyes Thalyssra fits the alliance and we should have Tyrande and Elisande. Now they gave them power

[Tanaria]

She cowered from Jaina in Stormwind. And not once through the suramar camapaugn even when she recovered, did she show any serious display of power.

The alliance have so many powerful elves, they should have given us Elisande. I much prefer the raw power over the subtle touch.

In my eyes Thalyssra fits the alliance and we should have Tyrande and Elisande. Now they gave them power

Well something that we didn't see was Thalyssra teleporting the whole Horde army to Zandalar...I guess it isn't just Alliance, who have their characters only shine in the books and novels.

Again, Elisande no longer makes any sense and she needs to stay dead.

[Combatbutler]

She cowered from Jaina in Stormwind. And not once through the suramar camapaugn even when she recovered, did she show any serious display of power.

Well of course, Jaina is one of the staple writers pet of the story, you can see it with her development being all over the place

The alliance have so many powerful elves, they should have given us Elisande. I much prefer the raw power over the subtle touch.

They have three, two of them are utter morons and the third one is on her way to become the next alliance "bad girl".

In my eyes Thalyssra fits the alliance and we should have Tyrande and Elisande. Now they gave them power

Anything fits the Alliance, it does not have any criteria whatsoever, excluding someone from membership.

[DatToffer]

Anything fits the Alliance, it does not have any criteria whatsoever, excluding someone from membership.

Wow, not fair. The Alliance has very strict criteria for joining them.

Both males and females of the race need to be fuckable or at least cuddlable.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Wow, not fair. The Alliance has very strict criteria for joining them.

Both males and females of the race need to be fuckable or at least cuddlable.

I wouldn't call mechagnomes or jinyus or ankoans exactly fuckable or cuddable.

[DatToffer]

I wouldn't call mechagnomes or jinyus or ankoans exactly fuckable or cuddable.

Mechagnomes have a pass thanks to the gnomes. As for the ankoians and jinyus, I guess they were a one time thing. At least the Horde invited the hozens to their party in Zuldazar !

[Ardenaso]

Yes and guess what happens to those who stay neutral?

to be fair the Argent Lordaeronians were mostly sitting in Hearthglen and Tyr's Hand area and were never attacked even once by the Forsaken - and that' the Forsaken

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Supporting an insane leader after swearing to learn their lessons and not to do so again after Azshara and Elisande.

I wouldn't put Nightborne guilty by association; they weren't part of the War of the Thorns and I don't see them do anything like Brennadam or the like and they were also eventually against Sylvanas at the end

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Why is it so hard for NE players to see that Tyrande being a bitch to Thalysra was just a plot device to push the nightborne into the Horde because they wanted to elaborate on the topic of mana addiction, give the Horde more beautiful elves, have the nightborne be warlocks and ship Thalysra and Bob ?

to be fair even without the drivel the Nightborne would still choose the Horde because they would see how the Alliance Highborne were treated and were only accepted like how the teacher forced a group of kids to accept a kid they don't want to be with; and the Blood Elves would still have more kinship with them. The blood of the covenant is still greater than the water of the womb

[Minikin]

Sounds more like confused.com

Whatever happens, Nightborne and Blood Elves need to stay together.

Dont worry, lorthemar is making sure of that.

[ravenmoon]

They've done nothing for it because they thrust Sylvanas, Anduin and Jaina down our throats.
After them, it's Thrall, Baine and Tyrande.


I'm a big advocate for smaller characters, with smaller stories that are relatable and the above 6 or written out of the next expansion.


So, for Blood Elves and Nightborne, maybe have Rommath and Valtrois interact. They both carry a degree of arrogance and whilst the former is more serious, the latter is more humorous.
Bring in Scout Captain Elsia again.
Bring in Victorie of the Duskwatch.

They haven't... and it's why so many of us just keep having mounting grievances against their story telling. The things that really pissed us off have not been addressed or any attempt made to bring some sort of parity of justice.


They gave everything of the Darnassians origin story to the horde with no ot so much as peak for the Darnassians in it after that, completely ignored (and it's been 3.5 years since 7.3.5


But it's not an isolated incident. they do this so many times, and it's not the first time they've done a great piece of work, then had some "brilliant" idea, and implemented it in a way that's just destroyed the earlier great work or rendered it pretty much rubbish or useless, if not for everyone then for one half of the community, often un-necessarily so because they couldn't be bothered to handled it properly.. because "they'd moved on"

But Night elf fans are not the only important ones in this argument.
That is something that alliance night elf fans need to understand.

No, they are not, but you have to understand that this is particular to them because that expansion, that zone, that city, that group is basically the rest of their oracial origin story , and their first main sub-race used like that, it would essentially be the same as giving Dazar'alor to the alliance and telling troll fans that they aren't the only important ones in the argument.


It's not to say alliance fans have no right to enjoy having a slice of the troll pie if a section of that community really dug that thing, but you have to understand the origin lore of the the main playable group that it's fans have treasured and read about so closely in it's most famous opening novel, makes it into the game, and then the nicest thing they've ever presented for them is given to their opposite faction.


You must understand the anger.


As I said above, effort should clearly be made for the kaldorei to be involved positively in their city and historical lore, even if the Nightborne are to remain horde and close with the blood elves. They need to do something about this. This is what will please alliance night elf fans, they want to be part of their Suramar and their races core origin history in game in a good way.


Blizzard need to make that happen - and if they're smart they'd do it without removing what the horde fans like. The horde fans don't want to lose the Nightborne nor do they want to lose Suramar.. I'm sure there is away both fans can be happy.


I'm sure Nightborne can be tight with blood elves and be good with Darnassians too. I'm sure Suramar can be open to night elves, Darnassians in particular and stories of the two written, interactions, reconnections, while at the same time Nightborne being friendly with blood elves. In some cases it can bring night elves and blood elves together , in other cases it can cause problems too with nuances.


The Nightborne story still has them very pro-kaldorei, and largely considering themselves children of the stars and the night, that is their heritage and not once are thy in denial of that, there is much that is kaldorei about them blizzard can continue to build on and connect with night elves in a good way as they find balance, they can use them to continue to show more of the arcane side of the night elves and show the Darnassian Highborne and Moonguard involved with them in a positive way.. there is also a big opportunity for the priesthood too and showing more aspects of the order of Elune via night elf and Nightborne interaction, including another visit from Tyrande but this time much friendlier and entirely based on the Goddess and NOT the alliance.


This is where you make the connection, you connect them based on their racial connection as night elves, as Elune's children, as children of Suramar, people who gave up the Nightwell kicked addiction and embraced balance, show how the Darnassian Highborne help the Nightborne embrace and live in balance with the arcane.


Show druids who made the Arcan'dor work , work with their kin , mainly focusing on balance druidism, where the aspect of the priesthood they reveal through these two deals a lot with the star side of the night elves they've never really delved into.


none of this has anything to do with the alliance, but it does with the kaldorei, and because Darnassians are involved, the a alliance night elf fans will feel strongly connected - this can all happen with Nightborne still part of the horde, and still friends with Blood elves. They don't have to mention the alliance, but they should, and have Tyrande say something like "this has nothing to do with the alliance, Elune remembers all her children this is not about hatreds and keeping the fire of vengeance our young allies harbour, I've been there and seen the dark path it leads to. I am high priestess and all my people will have renewal including my beloved home city" - and she proceeds to fully open the Cathedral of Eternal Night once more with Nightborne and night elf acolytes alike." - you add this line to emphasise it's about restoring the kaldorei and Elune in the hearts of the city folk and her temples, not about horde and alliance.


You focus most of the Nightborne interaction horde side with the blood elves anyway, it's more about the blood elves than the horde - blood elf fans continue to get more stories and interaction with Nightborne, even when Nightborne and night elves interact, throw in some blood elves that are actually interested.. They firstly hold no resentment for Highborne , Moonguard, show them actually warming up to the Val'Sharah druids, show their friendship with the Nightborne actually opening them up to the Darnassians for a change. Breaking the ice a lot had due to the exile.


Show some blood elves actually sympathetic because many Nightborne were appalled at Teldrassil, and had been helping night elves secretly, some blood elves found out, and were ashamed at the horde for it, also helped out and actually some friendships formed.


The change in Legion, by discovering the legion was really after Azeroth, not their well of eternity and magic, would also have affected some of the prejudices a few night elves closer to Maiev's original crazy had held - that's not to say they abandon their disdain for hubris and addiction no, but pre-legion arcane phobia some of the non-arcane kaldorei had can be seen to change - because the legion events both the revelations about the legion and the curing of addiction , the return of Suramar, experience with the Shen'dralar, seeing the nobility of the Farondis, and how the moonguard held themselves, and how the Nightborne rose up to throw out the legion and drive Gul'dan has created some serious respect in some of the Darnassians too, opening them up too and them being generally benevolent have been willing to be open to the sin'dorei as well.


This is how you can do it. It doesn't have to be perfect, you don't have to have blood elves and night elves become best friends, but you can show positive things happening between the two through this ancient home of the Darnassians and their proud kin, still proud of their kaldorei heritage who've returned.


Show the rift healing, though it's too late to join the alliance now, it doesn't mean the Nightborne can't have a good relationship build with the Darnassians - not just the island night elves, the Darnassians without the horde losing them or Suramar needing to be neutral or blue.


They can do this, and so much more if they want to help at least fix some of the bad blood their move created.

[VladlTutushkin]

to be fair the Argent Lordaeronians were mostly sitting in Hearthglen and Tyr's Hand area and were never attacked even once by the Forsaken - and that' the Forsaken

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I wouldn't put Nightborne guilty by association; they weren't part of the War of the Thorns and I don't see them do anything like Brennadam or the like and they were also eventually against Sylvanas at the end

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to be fair even without the drivel the Nightborne would still choose the Horde because they would see how the Alliance Highborne were treated and were only accepted like how the teacher forced a group of kids to accept a kid they don't want to be with; and the Blood Elves would still have more kinship with them. The blood of the covenant is still greater than the water of the womb

And you think in a sane world anybody would trust them after their "stark" record of "We good now" after Azshara, Elisane and Sylvanas all one after another?

[Tanaria]

SNIP.

That's all well and good but I think your putting too much emphasis in Night Elves and Nightborne just go along with it. The race most important to the Nightborne are the Nightborne and they must come first. It's all too much to start giving these big grand entrances which actually could interfere with Nightborne lore progression with Nightborne characters. It would be better to emphasis this to all who are still kaldorei.

Void Elf fans wouldn't like it if Blood Elves were at the center of their story for long periods, so why should the night elves under Tyrande be this heavily involved in the Nightborne story. If anything, only the night elves on the Broken Isles should have some involvement, but again - the main focus is given to the Nightborne, not the Night Elves.
Night Elves will get their story with Hyjal - it's not fair to give them a load of lore on Kalimdor and restoring Ashenvale, Hyjal and Darkshore then give them even more in Suramar, which is at risk of taking lore away from the Nightborne and Nightborne characters, just to make night elf fans happy, when they've already been compensated with big stuff in North West Kalimdor.

Night Elf involvement in a Nightborne racial story should be minimal. Night Elves don't deserve to appear everywhere in all elves' racial stories. They have to sit down and let the other Elves have their stuff, on their own.

But also - you talk about Night Elf fans and how upset they are, yet a few months ago you were more than happy to see Blood Elf fans upset and forced into leaving their land, be stripped of lore characters and made into stupid edgy, emo angry bad boys where you want them to ONLY deal with Fel and Necromancy, doing nothing in Orgrimmar or just having a few small towns and camps around Azshara and Bloodmyst isle, because "it's cool guys and it's Horde themed!" A big racist stereotype. So, I can't have sympathy for your plight at this stage, because you were perfectly willing to see Blood Elf fans have nothing. Maybe you need to know how it feels to have night elves go without and reflect on the fact that this is how Blood Elf fans would feel with your previous suggestions. It's not nice, is it...

[ravenmoon]

That's all well and good but I think your putting too much emphasis in Night Elves and Nightborne just go along with it. The race most important to the Nightborne are the Nightborne and they must come first. It's all too much to start giving these big grand entrances which actually could interfere with Nightborne lore progression with Nightborne characters. It would be better to emphasis this to all who are still kaldorei.

We have no choice but to go along with whatever they do.

All i can do is express what really angered me about how they handled it, and what would help by revealing what I want out of it at it's heart.

I've always been one for deeper connections and delving into the lore of the race and seing more, so that will always please me.

Problem is faction differences have actually soured a lot of things rather than made them enjoyable precisely because of how they've handled them. They could have had the Nightborne and Suramar on the horde and still allowed everything i wanted out of it, but the way they did it was a kick in alliance fans' teeth, souring the expeeriene for night elf fans..

They have no awwareness of this it seems, or if they don, don't care, but they are the architects of this state too.

Void Elf fans wouldn't like it if Blood Elves were at the center of their story for long periods, so why should the night elves under Tyrande be this heavily involved in the Nightborne story. If anything, only the night elves on the Broken Isles should have some involvement, but again - the main focus is given to the Nightborne, not the Night Elves.
Night Elves will get their story with Hyjal - it's not fair to give them a load of lore on Kalimdor and restoring Ashenvale, Hyjal and Darkshore then give them even more in Suramar, which is at risk of taking lore away from the Nightborne and Nightborne characters, just to make night elf fans happy, when they've already been compensated with big stuff in North West Kalimdor.

Night Elf involvement in a Nightborne racial story should be minimal. Night Elves don't deserve to appear everywhere in all elves' racial stories. They have to sit down and let the other Elves have their stuff, on their own.

But also - you talk about Night Elf fans and how upset they are, yet a few months ago you were more than happy to see Blood Elf fans upset and forced into leaving their land, be stripped of lore characters and made into stupid edgy, emo angry bad boys where you want them to ONLY deal with Fel and Necromancy, doing nothing in Orgrimmar or just having a few small towns and camps around Azshara and Bloodmyst isle, because "it's cool guys and it's Horde themed!" A big racist stereotype. So, I can't have sympathy for your plight at this stage, because you were perfectly willing to see Blood Elf fans have nothing. Maybe you need to know how it feels to have night elves go without and reflect on the fact that this is how Blood Elf fans would feel with your previous suggestions. It's not nice, is it...

I still want the kaldorei to have their reconnection with Suramar to done well and properly. AS satated, I don't need the nightborne to change factions or the city to be blue, neutral or red, I am interested in seeing the kaldorei continue to build relations with their kin and explore a future that improves their fantasy. That's what I'd like to see. I don't expect or wnat it to be eventless or totally smooth, i tcan be interesting both for positive thigns as well as conflict things becuase of the nuanecs of interactionswhich bieng in different factions can bring, but i don't want that to dominate this.. Suramar and the ngihtborne is a kaldorei story,7.0 and 7.1 was too, I'd like to see that continuet o be explored properly, and i'm fine with the blood elves playing a role in that too. I'm fine with blodo elf nightborne relations continuing to grow too, i just want the darnassians and suramar to to get their relationship going and their happy ending of their 10,000 year long painful arc.

I don't need them to be joined to the hip, i don't need them to be constnatly involved with each other. i'd like to see that they have a relatosion ship, their rekindling thier lost time and re-integrating with each other, i'm fine with that.. i'm fine with the night elves on the borken isles pretty much liviing htier own lives and having little to do with the Darnassians, but i want the relationships to be reforged and be set right in the manner i described in the earlier post, then the Darnassians can continue their Hyjal existence, and the borken isles can continue it's own, as all components of the kaldorei in their various elements.

I view the nightborne as a componenet of the kaldorei that are firendly witht eh blood leves and deal with the horde, I want to see more of that for who they are.. i don't need them to be joined at the Darnassians' hip.. but that doesn't mean I felt what they did by taking them horde was good or am okay with it. It was a slap in the face and a kick in the teeth. But it's not hte end of hte world and there are many ways very good things for both night elves and blood elves and the kaldorei larger arc can benefit from it.

[Tanaria]

SNIP

Ok, but what I mean is, in a racial/class pride expansion, then it doesn't do Nightborne players to have their races' story being infiltrated by Night Elves, nor would the average Night Elf player want to always be involved with a Horde race.

So rather than Tyrande (because I think she needs to sit out and Night Elf Priest players do quests with Belysra Starbreeze who is a lot bigger than the time she's given in-game), what if Night Elf Mage players, with Mordent Evenshade and Nightborne Mage, Warlock and Priest players with Thalyssra meet up and...converse about the old times, good - bad - ugly.
I reckon that is fair because I saw comments from Highborne fans and it's not so much about the whole thing regarding the Elune worship what people were talking about, it's the fact that Blizzard said "Highborne of Suramar became Nightborne." So maybe a better idea is for Nightborne casters and Night Elf Mages to have a questline that takes them to Zin-Azshari, they converse and the kaldorei go one way and shal'dorei go the other.

I don't believe it's the direction that the Night Elf Priesthood will go to the Suramar Province.

Also, we talk about the Valewalker Farodin - I regret to say that unless they change his VA, we won't be seeing his character return as his VA sadly passed in 2018.

[Soon-TM]

Why? She wasn't destroyed by our encounter, and she helped us win against Gul'dan.

She's powerful and pragmamatic, , and we know she did a cowardly thing by siding with the legion, but she earenestly was trying to save her people not condone their evil, it worked, and the fact she in the ened, like the orcs, like the blood elves, her group of nightborne follow in those footsteps, did wrong for a while and saw the error of their ways.



Maybe it's becuase i'm not such a big fan of Thalyssra.. she reminds me too much of the kaldorei and Tyrande and Malfurion - all that righteousness and preachy values - which has it's plaec, but for me Elisande fits the horde theme better, and I preferred her coming to her senses and being restored and leading hethe half of her people
with that sort of mindset.

I always thought that NB should have been a neutral race, Panda style. Horde NB would have been Elisande's loyalists, whereas Thalyssra fanbois/gurls would make up for Alliance NB.

[Super Dickmann]

I always thought that NB should have been a neutral race, Panda style. Horde NB would have been Elisande's loyalists, whereas Thalyssra fanbois/gurls would make up for Alliance NB.

Horde should have gotten Nightfallen, with the Nightborne being an unplayable neutral group, the reasoning being that while the Arcan'dor can eventually provide for everyone, that will take some time and people will waste away in the interim, having disagreed with the call to destroy the Nightwell. This'd also give Thalyssra's decision some gravitas instead of being consequence free. The Nightfallen are visually distinct, bring back the arcane addiction aspect that makes for a proactive race and makes warlocks a more sensible class choice as well as not being completely redundant with the blood elves the way the current race is.

[ravenmoon]

I always thought that NB should have been a neutral race, Panda style. Horde NB would have been Elisande's loyalists, whereas Thalyssra fanbois/gurls would make up for Alliance NB.

If I’m honest. I thought that if they dared let the horde have a piece of a night elf sub race that the alliance would indeed have gotten the nightfallen and the horde the more powerful imperialist loyalists.

There talk of conquest and it’s our turn to shine etc.

but I believe the original plan was the Nightborne were going to be wiped out in the raid and the nightfallen survived being healed into night elves and get their happy ending.

Nightborne were not originally going to be playable. Suramar would have likely become the new night elf capital because they knew they were destroying the Kalimdor night elf zones to give to the horde.

[Tanaria]

If I’m honest. I thought that if they dared let the horde have a piece of a night elf sub race that the alliance would indeed have gotten the nightfallen and the horde the more powerful imperialist loyalists.

There talk of conquest and it’s our turn to shine etc.

but I believe the original plan was the Nightborne were going to be wiped out in the raid and the nightfallen survived being healed into night elves and get their happy ending.

Nightborne were not originally going to be playable. Suramar would have likely become the new night elf capital because they knew they were destroying the Kalimdor night elf zones to give to the horde.

But Night Elf fans and Forsaken fans didn't like the narrative so Blizzard backed down and now Night Elves have got their lands back, whilst Forsaken fans are still waiting to return to Lordaeron.

Night Elf fans in particular wanted their race to return to Kalimdor. Most just accepted that Suramar wasn't going to be there's but Suramar itself was not important. Night Elf lands like Ashenvale, Darkshore, Hyjal - these were what Blizzard heard and eventually what Blizzard gave. It had to be one or the other. Either you had the Suramar warfront of kaldorei vs shal'dorei, with Worgen and Sin'dorei aid - or you had the Darkshore Warfront. Their was never going to be the option to have both, because Blizzard would have struggled to tell a convincing story of how the night elves are the main face for two warfronts.

Now, I believe it's time for the Forsaken to return to their homeland of Lordaeron. Tirisfal needs to be restored and the Forsaken start anew, with Dark Ranger Velonara (or somebody who isn't Calia since Blizzard aren't going to put her as the Forsaken leader - they confirmed this) as their leader.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Horde should have gotten Nightfallen, with the Nightborne being an unplayable neutral group, the reasoning being that while the Arcan'dor can eventually provide for everyone, that will take some time and people will waste away in the interim, having disagreed with the call to destroy the Nightwell. This'd also give Thalyssra's decision some gravitas instead of being consequence free. The Nightfallen are visually distinct, bring back the arcane addiction aspect that makes for a proactive race and makes warlocks a more sensible class choice as well as not being completely redundant with the blood elves the way the current race is.

Not a bad idea.

Personally I could see at least a portion of the Nightborne refusing to fight against their brethren, and one of them warning the Kaldorei about the incoming aggression against them led by Sylvanas.

[Super Dickmann]

Not a bad idea.

Personally I could see at least a portion of the Nightborne refusing to fight against their brethren, and one of them warning the Kaldorei about the incoming aggression against them led by Sylvanas.

The Nightborne joining any faction was a mistake and not just because of the horrific player models. They have more in common with the blood elves to be sure, but said similarities are if anything counterproductive because they overlap in so many of their traits and don't actually add anything to the Horde except being even more arcane than the blood elves which in turn pigeonholes them more into being holy elves. You could have them tip off the night elves while others have a grudge, but for the most part there's simply no reason for them to be involved in the narrative at all.

The only exception where they would have more connection to a story than the blood elves in BFA was for the confrontation with Azshara but that's purely a hypothetical. What really happened was that they were sacrificed on the altar of Jaina's all consuming spotlight and even in Horde exclusive stories we spend all our screentime with those intolerable fucking gilblins. So we spent the course of the patch where we weren't Sadfang's little helpers with those fish midgets blabbering on about love and peace and making friends with crabs rather than the people who actually lived under Azshara's reign and have their story directly connected to her in origin.