This current streamers trend to exit wow is obviously partly hypocritical.

[rhorle]

It's not even hate, much less unreasonable hate. A lot of us loved WoW, and many still love it. They hate where the game is now, they hate how it's become a broken monstrosity that lacks all spirit of when we played in the early days.

It's not even hate but they hate where the game is now. So it is hate. Lol. You keep trying to make this entire thing about all of Blizzard's products when it was a simple comparison of cash shops and how a certain crowd hates on Blizzard for it existing in WoW but has no problem with it existing in other games. It clearly triggered you though since you keep posting multi-paragraph rants about things unrelated to what was being discussed.

[Naiattavain]

im a seasoned veteran and i don't want to play this game anymore at all. rogues suck.

[Cthulhu 2020]

It's not even hate but they hate where the game is now. So it is hate. Lol. You keep trying to make this entire thing about all of Blizzard's products when it was a simple comparison of cash shops and how a certain crowd hates on Blizzard for it existing in WoW but has no problem with it existing in other games. It clearly triggered you though since you keep posting multi-paragraph rants about things unrelated to what was being discussed.

Seems like you didn't even read my post. In other words you're not interested in a discussion, which is what these forums are for. "LOL YOU MAKING MULTI PARAGRAPH POSTS CAUSE YOU MAD BRO" is baiting. I'm not mad in the least. I'm just engaging with someone who keeps making excuses not to admit the obvious statements I've made, much less not even making your own cohesive argument. So engage me in the conversation (though you can't deny anything I said in the post above, so I can see why you're avoiding addressing my points ) or I'll just report for trolling.

Short version: Blizzard's greed is a decade long pattern of ultra greedy behavior in the making. Square Enix has had nowhere near the same patterns of behavior as WoW. There's a reason WoW has 1.2-1.6M subs. And that's before all the sexual harassment and other scandals.

That you seem to stan the WoW token is a big indication of what we're dealing with as well.

[TheRevenantHero]

Seems like you didn't even read my post. In other words you're not interested in a discussion, which is what these forums are for. "LOL YOU MAKING MULTI PARAGRAPH POSTS CAUSE YOU MAD BRO" is baiting. I'm not mad in the least. I'm just engaging with someone who keeps making excuses not to admit the obvious statements I've made, much less not even making your own cohesive argument. So engage me in the conversation (though you can't deny anything I said in the post above, so I can see why you're avoiding addressing my points ) or I'll just report for trolling.

Short version: Blizzard's greed is a decade long pattern of ultra greedy behavior in the making. Square Enix has had nowhere near the same patterns of behavior as WoW. There's a reason WoW has 1.2-1.6M subs. And that's before all the sexual harassment and other scandals.

That you seem to stan the WoW token is a big indication of what we're dealing with as well.

I'd just stop arguing with him. He is known for gaslighting, strawman arguments, and refusing to have any debate in good faith. He will go to any length to defend WoW to his dying breath no matter how irrational it is. For the record, you're right. Blizzard has been in a sharp decline for a while now. BfA and SL have proven they just don't give a fuck about the game anymore. They have absolutely no respect for the players and view them as nothing more than someone that dispenses money to them.

[rhorle]

Seems like you didn't even read my post. In other words you're not interested in a discussion, which is what these forums are for.

I didn't need to respond to a wall of hate directed towards Blizzard. You are venting because a game you loved for years is now something you don't. It has nothing to do with what was being discussed so if anyone isn't interested it is yourself. lol.

If a person is calling one greedy over a cash shop but not the other then they are a hypocrite. That is all I've stated and all this was about from the start. You keep bringing in everything but the kitchen sink in order to justify why Blizzard is greedy and X is not. That wasn't even what was being discussed. You keep having to move the goal posts and make this a game vs game discussion. It is not and those things are frowned upon on these forums anyways.

WoW hasn't lost subs because it is greedy. WoW, and Blizzard, has always been greedy. They always tried to capitalize on money. Its why the TCG existed. Why the CE's exist. Why the collectibles exist. Just because you are seeing that now for the first time because you are angry doesn't change that it didn't exist. Lol.

[Drindorai]

I don't know why people are still honestly engaging with rhorle when his behavior should be more than clear that he's just here to blindly defend everything Blizzard and WoW does and just shit on every and anything about FF14 regardless of accuracy or fairness.

There's nothing to be gained engaging with a person just lying about everything.

[Nzx]

I haven't read the vast majority of this thread but I just wanted to chime in and say I find it legitimately hilarious that people get so mad about a mount skin that they say it "ruined" a videogame. People could be flying around on giant pink dildos for $150 a pop from the store for all I care, it doesn't change a single thing about the gameplay. There were cosmetic pets as rewards for PAYING MONEY for a collector's edition literally in Vanilla, for fuck's sake. This game has always had "microtransactions".

[Cthulhu 2020]

I didn't need to respond to a wall of hate directed towards Blizzard.

"Wall of hate". Man you really just have mega anxiety when confronted with facts.

Diablo 3 RMAH
Starcraft 2 being released at 3 separate 1/3 complete games
Money printing with the WoW token and hearthstone

I'm not going to bother going into depth since I already have. Nobody is calling Blizzard greedy fucks solely because of the cash shop. The cash shop and WoW token are just two things in a long line of 10 years of shit that demonstrates an ultra greedy pattern of behavior. If Blizzard hadn't done basically everything I listed off, I'm sure people would be far more willing to forgive Blizzard for the cash shop, as they do with FF. That you seem to think your "DESE PEOPLE SAID CASH SHOP BAD BUT LUL FF DOES IT TUU" is incredibly smart but it lacks so much context to even be considered a coherent argument. The only hypocrite here is you friend.

Not sure why I bother, other than the occasional boredom. I wanted to see WoW come back, but it's looking like the franchise is being run into the ground. The latest numbers of active players are even more dismal than people predicted and those numbers were BEFORE the scandals. But I'm sure the Blizzard devs who browse these forums appreciate a staunch unmoving fan who cannot even be swayed by facts and logic. When it's you and 200 people on your server, I wish you all the best friend. May the game you defend sanctioned gold buying for have been worth the IRL money.

[rhorle]

"Wall of hate". Man you really just have mega anxiety when confronted with facts.

Anxiety, facts? No. It is your opinion of the stuff with a bias of hate attached to it. You no longer like the game so everyone else has to no longer like it as well. Weird right? Every company is greedy. The competitors are not less greedy then WoW. There is a reason why you turned it into a Blizzard is greedy because there isn't much you can say about WoW besides the token. You already stated cash shops were bad for both games to have yet still have to argue that I am some how wrong. Lol.

I am not a hypocrite for saying that the competitors for WoW are greedier because they have expanded cash shops. That doesn't mean that WoW isn't greedy. You are not using hypocrite correctly at all. A staunch unmoving fan that can't be swayed by facts? Just because I think that WoW and greedy and those with more for sale in a cash shop are the same or greedier? See this is why what you are posting is hate. You are insulting and using copium in order to attack anyone who isn't you or your views.

[Diaphin]

They based a lot of early game systems on WoW. FF has taken a very divergent course from WoW.

But you think streamers want to lose business and money just to hop on some bandwagon? No, they don't. WoW is losing customers, losing subs, and losing viewers. It's getting easier to grow channels on FFXIV and WoW is starting to slip behind as an actual game people want to play. Yes, of course streamers are going to hop on the bandwagon. But here's the BIG disconnect between the forum posters still on COPIUM and those who know what's going on. Practically a new streamer quits every day to play FF, and MOST of them have been gushing about the game, absolutely gushing with how good it is. And tons of people agree with them. If you like WoW, power to ya. But if you care about the health of the game, subscriber numbers, etc. you might want to stop paying attention, because times are about to get very sad for you soon. Shadowlands hasn't even hit its 9.1 lull, and it's still got 9.2 lull and 9.3 lull.

Blizzard is currently at its lowest monthly active users since 2015, and it keeps going down. Every time there's a patch lull in shadowlands, it will go down even more.

I like FF14 but the hype will probably die out once many gamers notice that there is barely anything to do in the game and that most content is just mind numbingly easy.

[Gaidax]

Sheesh this thread went full blown tribalism I see. "My favorite corporation is less greedy than your favorite corporation..."

What is even the discussion anymore? Greedy shmeedy who the fuck cares - newsflash, they all milk whatever they can and they both pour plenty $$ into this shit too.

[Diaphin]

I'd just stop arguing with him. He is known for gaslighting, strawman arguments, and refusing to have any debate in good faith. He will go to any length to defend WoW to his dying breath no matter how irrational it is. For the record, you're right. Blizzard has been in a sharp decline for a while now. BfA and SL have proven they just don't give a fuck about the game anymore. They have absolutely no respect for the players and view them as nothing more than someone that dispenses money to them.

Thats why Shadowlands broke a sales record?

[Osmeric]

Thats why Shadowlands broke a sales record?

Redefining pre-sales as first day sales helped a lot with that.

[rhorle]

Redefining pre-sales as first day sales helped a lot with that.

Hasn't Blizzard always included pre-order in the launch figures though?

[Cthulhu 2020]

Anxiety, facts? No. It is your opinion of the stuff with a bias of hate attached to it. You no longer like the game so everyone else has to no longer like it as well. Weird right? Every company is greedy. The competitors are not less greedy then WoW. There is a reason why you turned it into a Blizzard is greedy because there isn't much you can say about WoW besides the token. You already stated cash shops were bad for both games to have yet still have to argue that I am some how wrong. Lol.

I am not a hypocrite for saying that the competitors for WoW are greedier because they have expanded cash shops. That doesn't mean that WoW isn't greedy. You are not using hypocrite correctly at all. A staunch unmoving fan that can't be swayed by facts? Just because I think that WoW and greedy and those with more for sale in a cash shop are the same or greedier? See this is why what you are posting is hate. You are insulting and using copium in order to attack anyone who isn't you or your views.

You're not even reading my posts. I'm not even mad bro, I'm just sad for you. You're just skimming the first couple of lines, quoting it, then spewing your own stuff. Other posters claimed you were a baiter, sea lion, that you used strawmen, gaslighting, and other stuff. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I see now how they were oh so right.

You are not a hypocrite because of your statements about greed. You're just wrong about those. You're a hypocrite for calling me mad and everything else. You're projecting your own inability to articulate ideas properly and have a discussion.

Want to have a discussion? Address the 5+ issues I pointed out that are major examples of Blizzard greed in the last 10 years and their increasing efforts to suck money from players. Provide examples of major Square Enix greed over the last 30 years (you can't). Aside from the FF store having a ton of items nobody buys, you have nothing. Companies are companies and need to make a profit. That's not greed. Pushing the limits with gambling loot boxes and real money auction house (among a host of other things) is greed.

You're on a discussion forum. If you just want to preach your bad, wrong and hilariously delusional ideas with no discussion then there's no point in continuing with you.

I realize you 110% believe you are in the right here, and that all others should just accept your thoughts as reality. But you're not. And every other poster is right about you.

[Velerios]

You realize how much bs that is right? If a steamer almost solemnly streams one game and the quits said game, chances are, many of his viewers will no longer watch him. That's not true for every steamer, but the risk is always there.

Sorry, but here you are wrong: many people watch some streamer because of the streamer, not because of the game.

[Djaye]

we live in a world where people would rather:
watch people game than actually game
watch pornography rather than go get laid
overpay for fastfood delivery than get off their asses. then complain about how expensive everything is...

i dont get it

[Ringthane]

I didn't need to respond to a wall of hate directed towards Blizzard. You are venting because a game you loved for years is now something you don't. It has nothing to do with what was being discussed so if anyone isn't interested it is yourself. lol.

If a person is calling one greedy over a cash shop but not the other then they are a hypocrite. That is all I've stated and all this was about from the start. You keep bringing in everything but the kitchen sink in order to justify why Blizzard is greedy and X is not. That wasn't even what was being discussed. You keep having to move the goal posts and make this a game vs game discussion. It is not and those things are frowned upon on these forums anyways.

WoW hasn't lost subs because it is greedy. WoW, and Blizzard, has always been greedy. They always tried to capitalize on money. Its why the TCG existed. Why the CE's exist. Why the collectibles exist. Just because you are seeing that now for the first time because you are angry doesn't change that it didn't exist. Lol.

Wait a minute.

Waaaait a minute.

A company that exists to make money... Does things to make money?

What is this madness of which you speak?

Of course they're trying to make money. That's what ALL businesses do. That's what the people that make your shoes do, and the people that make your car do, and the people that make your stove do. And you state "If a person is calling one greedy over a cash shop but not the other then they are a hypocrite." and then a paragraph later state: "WoW, and Blizzard, has always been greedy. They always tried to capitalize on money. Its why the TCG existed. Why the CE's exist. Why the collectibles exist." Thank you all for showing us what hypocrisy really is.

- - - Updated - - -

Anxiety, facts? No. It is your opinion of the stuff with a bias of hate attached to it. You no longer like the game so everyone else has to no longer like it as well. Weird right? Every company is greedy. The competitors are not less greedy then WoW. There is a reason why you turned it into a Blizzard is greedy because there isn't much you can say about WoW besides the token. You already stated cash shops were bad for both games to have yet still have to argue that I am some how wrong. Lol.

I am not a hypocrite for saying that the competitors for WoW are greedier because they have expanded cash shops. That doesn't mean that WoW isn't greedy. You are not using hypocrite correctly at all. A staunch unmoving fan that can't be swayed by facts? Just because I think that WoW and greedy and those with more for sale in a cash shop are the same or greedier? See this is why what you are posting is hate. You are insulting and using copium in order to attack anyone who isn't you or your views.

No, actually, you are a hypocrite for saying that one thing is greedy for making money, whereas another is not. And you're being untruthful. And you disguise your errant viewpoints by calling everyone else hateful and insulting. That's the very definition of being a hypocrite:

Definition of hypocrite
1: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

And that's from Merriam Webster, not from me: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrite

[rhorle]

Want to have a discussion? Address the 5+ issues I pointed out that are major examples of Blizzard greed in the last 10 years and their increasing efforts to suck money from players.

That isn't the discussion though. You keep trying to make this a Company versus Company discussion when it never was. This isn't about saying that Blizzard is not greedy. Or that WoW is not greedy. Only that everyone else is just as greedy. You even agreed that both cash shops are bad yet you got triggered. You posted multiple paragraphs ranting about every evil Blizzard has done. Yet you keep trying to insult me because you have no actual discussion here. You are the one that is literally preaching with out actually discussing anything that was being said.

The irony is that you are the one that wants to be 110% in the right and think that everyone should accept your thoughts as reality. You keep doing everything you accuse me of doing. I don't care if a forum nobody thinks I am wrong. Other games are just as greedy as Blizzard and Final Fantasy is just as greedy or greedier because of the expanded cash shop. Yet me saying that both are greedy has some how translated as defending WoW no matter what to you. You literaly are so caught up in your rage that you can't actually see what is being said to you.

Even a simply google shows there are many people that think Sqaure Enix is greedy. You are clearly in the honey moon phase. Your new love can do no wrong and your old love is evil no matter what.

- - - Updated - - -

No, actually, you are a hypocrite for saying that one thing is greedy for making money, whereas another is not. And you're being untruthful. And you disguise your errant viewpoints by calling everyone else hateful and insulting.

How is saying that WoW is greedy and others are greedier because of an expanded cash shop saying one is greedy and one is not? Lmao. You and others keep reading what you want to see rather then what has been said. I am calling others hateful and insulting because they keep insulting and keep arguing based on hate and things that only exist in their head.

It really does prove that people will find any excuse to hate on Blizzard while giving other games a free pass.

[GreenJesus]

ff14 is an ancient game anyway (in terms of the main nature of it). I played it about 3 or 4 years ago and I knew it was nothing too special as a replacement (since it did nothing really new), and I find it fascinating that the creator himself said it's meant to be a "japanese wow".

- - - Updated - - -


I don't know if Asmongold is braver than others, but a lot of others don't have to be afraid these days. He had multiple times more views with his "exodus to ff14" streams so it's obvious that a lot of others that jumped into the bandwagon didn't have to be afraid to hate on wow (or at least they might have reasons to think that even if it's short term).

The fact that ff14 doesn't do anything "too new" is what makes it good. They kept the game simple without all of the system bloat that wow has. They just deliver solid content in a consistent schedule instead of wasting time developing sharts of domination.