[Speculation/Spoilers] The Rejoining, Ascians, and Futility

[Aucald]

Warning: This theory goes deep into spoilers for the end of MSQ up to the end of Endwalker. Do not continue if you don't want EW and previous expansions spoiled.

Having had a long and pretty drawn-out discussion concerning the narrative riffs and implications on how the primary Ascians were quasi-tempered by Zodiark to continually sacrifice lives to have Zodiark continually restore aspects of their previous lives before the Final Days nearly destroyed Etheirys-that-was, the discussion turned to the idea of Rejoining and rationale behind it as concerned the primary unsundered Ascians. One aspect noted was that aside from the seemingly problematic zeroth attempt at a Rejoining, the disaster that resulted in the Thirteenth being swallowed by the Void and failing to rejoin properly with the Source, each subsequent Rejoining seemed to be more and more difficult and elaborate for the Ascians to realize.

Though the tales of the earliest Umbral Calamities are fragmentary, they all seem to allude to a rather one-sided conflict often styled as "among the gods" that brought about said Calamity. The First Calamity, that of Wind (presumably), seemed to occur without much in the way of opposition and rejoined the Fifth to the Source. Similarly, the Second Umbral Calamity, of Lightning, was caused by having the primitive kingdoms of man engage in feckless wars and increasing industrialization, until it sparked the Calamity and joined Twelfth to the Source. The Third Umbral Calamity of Fire followed a similar pattern as the previous Calamity, except the target this time was the fomenting of conflict between religion and the use of magic, leading to a similar rash of wars that rejoined the Second to the Source. Ditto for the Fourth Calamity of Earth, pretty well documented as the fall of ancient Allag and its warring with Meracydia and the rest of the world - another world war ignited by Emet-Selch causing the Third to rejoin with the Source. The Fifth Umbral Calamity of Frost is a bit of a mystery as to how it started but rejoined the Sixth to the Source. Getting closer to the modern era of FF14, the Six Umbral Calamity of War was sparked by yet another world-spanning conflict, this time between white and black mages of different orders, rejoining the Tenth to the Source.

Finally, we arrive at the modern era and the start of ARR, the Seventh and unaspected Umbral Calamity involving Dalamud, the Primal Bahamut, and Emet-Selch once more manipulating an empire of his creation, this time Garlemald, to foment war and chaos to join the Seventh to the Source. But it is this Calamity where the plans of the Ascians were very nearly upset as the combined might of the Circle of Knowing and the Grand Companies of Eorzea conspired to forestall the actions of the Ascians, their catspaw Garlemald, and work feverishly to stop the Rejoining from occurring. This conflict also illustrates the growing power of the denizens of the Source, now having undergone successive Rejoinings, and granted inscrutable power and endurance that were slowly but surely tipping the scales toward a more even footing even with the Unsundered Ascians, those who possessed the majority of their power as Ancients of Etheirys.

I contend that as of the coming of the proposed Eighth Umbral Calamity, now completely averted with the apparent deaths of all the primary Ascians, a tipping point was reached that made the Ascian's whole plan of Rejoining futile. Essentially, each time a Rejoining occurred that brought the Source closer to becoming Etheirys-that-was, the Ascians essentially stacked the deck against themselves - explaining why paragons of power, skill, and intellect like the Warrior of Light themselves, the Scions of the Seventh Dawn, and Cid Garlond rose to oppose and eventually completely stop the plans of the Ascians. It's shown that the masters of magic and other arts in the Source of this time were even able to achieve feats the Ancients themselves conceded hadn't been replicated, such as G'raha Tia managing to pull the WoL and the Scions to the First across the vastness of the sundered void. Even further, in the now deprecated timeline where an Eighth Umbral Calamity succeeded and rejoined the First to the Source, the successive generations of that war-torn world even figured out how to bend both time and space to send G'raha back in time and across dimensions to become the Crystal Exarch in a long game to undo the Calamity that had seemingly doomed the people of the Source.

I think the Ascians such as Emet-Selch and Elidibus came to recognize that their gambit was doomed as the opposition of the Source to their plans became ever more pronounced, and its denizens more and more capable of opposing and even killing the Ascians permanently. Although their tempering by Zodiark may have rendered them unable to consciously stop working toward the Rejoining, subconsciously they began to recognize that it wasn't going to work, and even more, that they were actively killing individuals and entire civilizations that were growing more and more like their peers and the ancient culture from before the Sundering. Emet-Selch hid this realization behind apathy and despondency, Elidibus by an ever-growing pathological fervor, and Lahabrea through undirected and almost pointless rage. But all of them, deep down, seemed to begin to work to sow the seeds of their own destruction following the Seventh Calamity - something we see most directly with Emet-Selch in the recreation of Amaurot below the seas of the First. He was, in a way, practically begging the WoL to kill him at the end. Unable to face the growing schism at his core, tempered by the primal Zodiark to toil ceaselessly and sacrifice lives to feed the Rejoining, but still aware and cognizant of the growing problem inherent with that course of action. Elidibus, similarly, draws the WoL into a hopeless escalation of conflict that dooms him, even trapping himself in the Crystal Tower, seeming unaware that it was akin to locking himself in a prison and handing the keys to the WoL to close the door on him. Lahabrea continually hops bodies, even taking Thancred's in a childish gesture of spite, knowing that it weakens him more and more until he is finally disposed of.

The conclusion, I feel, is that the Ascians realized the futility of their plans in the same manner that Venat/Hydaelyn did in the time of Amaurot, albeit eons after the fact. The Rejoining was an ultimately futile goal, inadvertently doomed to failure because it slowly but surely created an increasing number of powerful individuals opposed to the sacrifices the Ascians demanded. Each successive Calamity empowered the enemies of the Ascians until a critical point was reached where the still sundered but increasingly soul-dense echoes of the Ancients became an immovable object to the Ascians' designs.

[Ghost of Cow]

I think the Ascians such as Emet-Selch and Elidibus came to recognize that their gambit was doomed as the opposition of the Source to their plans became ever more pronounced, and its denizens more and more capable of opposing and even killing the Ascians permanently. Although their tempering by Zodiark may have rendered them unable to consciously stop working toward the Rejoining, subconsciously they began to recognize that it wasn't going to work, and even more, that they were actively killing individuals and entire civilizations that were growing more and more like their peers and the ancient culture from before the Sundering. Emet-Selch hid this realization behind apathy and despondency, Elidibus by an ever-growing pathological fervor, and Lahabrea through undirected and almost pointless rage. But all of them, deep down, seemed to begin to work to sow the seeds of their own destruction following the Seventh Calamity - something we see most directly with Emet-Selch in the recreation of Amaurot below the seas of the First. He was, in a way, practically begging the WoL to kill him at the end. Unable to face the growing schism at his core, tempered by the primal Zodiark to toil ceaselessly and sacrifice lives to feed the Rejoining, but still aware and cognizant of the growing problem inherent with that course of action. Elidibus, similarly, draws the WoL into a hopeless escalation of conflict that dooms him, even trapping himself in the Crystal Tower, seeming unaware that it was akin to locking himself in a prison and handing the keys to the WoL to close the door on him. Lahabrea continually hops bodies, even taking Thancred's in a childish gesture of spite, knowing that it weakens him more and more until he is finally disposed of.

This is one of those things where it makes sense - I've had similar thoughts myself, especially regarding Emet-Selch - but this sort of thing is also pretty on-brand for fictional antagonists in general.

"Come into my lair, heroes, if you dare!" or "I could destroy you with the McGuffin of Doom, but I can beat you man to man!" and whatnot.

(Unrelated, but I've always joked that the most ruthless characters in much of fiction are the protagonists. The antagonists are constantly goofing around, not taking the kills when they could, "kidnapping" the good guys and keeping them alive like it's a game, not using their advantage, and so on. Protagonists just kill everyone!)

XIVs writing of these things was better than most, but I'm not sure if I'd read too much into the specific tactics used by each Ascian. Elidibus, in fact, did go for the nuclear option when fighting us, simply tossing us straight into the rift. I'm not sure that's the course of action of someone ready to give up the fight against us.

[Aucald]

This is one of those things where it makes sense - I've had similar thoughts myself, especially regarding Emet-Selch - but this sort of thing is also pretty on-brand for fictional antagonists in general.

"Come into my lair, heroes, if you dare!" or "I could destroy you with the McGuffin of Doom, but I can beat you man to man!" and whatnot.

(Unrelated, but I've always joked that the most ruthless characters in much of fiction are the protagonists. The antagonists are constantly goofing around, not taking the kills when they could, "kidnapping" the good guys and keeping them alive like it's a game, not using their advantage, and so on. Protagonists just kill everyone!)

XIVs writing of these things was better than most, but I'm not sure if I'd read too much into the specific tactics used by each Ascian. Elidibus, in fact, did go for the nuclear option when fighting us, simply tossing us straight into the rift. I'm not sure that's the course of action of someone ready to give up the fight against us.

I think the aspect that makes Emet-Selch's self-sabotage more apparent, beyond the whole evil overlord "come into my lair, heroes" style of the trope, is that when we encounter his Ancient self in Elpis he quite vehemently calls out the WoL's tale about his defeat on that very score. He points out how stupid it would've been to invite the WoL and their companions into his recreation of Amaurot, and upbraids the WoL for insulting his intelligence. That, to me, underscores the fact that somewhere deep down Emet-Selch knew what he was doing, that he for a variety of reasons was tired of his life and the burden set upon him by his service to Zodiark, etc. After thousands of lifetimes and the growing futility of the Rejoining, he was simply ready to give up, but also couldn't stop what he was doing. It kind of gives his oddly stagger-like walk in Shadowbringers a new resonance - the way he moves when wearing the oven mitt of Solus zos Galvus always felt to me like someone being puppeteered from without, or someone being frog-marched against their will.

Elidibus himself is a more interesting case, but I think the overall dynamic is the same, too. Elidibus has even less will-to-self than Emet-Selch shows, likely due to having been the "heart" of Zodiark for so long, surrendering more and more of what he was to the primal's overriding tempering. Again and again, he's shown evidence of the futility of his mission, and it's even shown that he can no longer recall the reasons behind the sacrifices that were previously made. If Emet-Selch was a man driven to the brink of WoL-assisted suicide, Elidibus was simply completely hollowed out by his time within Zodiark, a caricature of the Ancient he had been as Themis; the empty hole where purpose should've been. It's only the digital representation of Elidibus present in the Crystal Tower after his physical death that seems to have cottoned on to what had happened to him, as he sacrifices the last of his essence to aid the WoL in returning to Elpis in the past, and somewhat begrudgingly concedes to Venat that she had the right of it. I can't be sure if Elidibus was really in a state to be said that he, like Emet-Selch, invited his doom subconsciously - or if he, by dint of having been reduced to an outline of his former self, was simply unable to muster the actual will to stop the WoL and the Scions.

[MsSideEye]

After seeing this thread at work a few days ago, I let the idea sit in my head for a bit and wanted to give my thoughts on it.

As far as Lahabrea is concerned, I honestly feel like that at this point in the story, the man was too far gone to have even considered it. Maybe it was something that he would have wanted to or thought of at one point, but considering the corruptible nature of his other half from the Endwalker raids, I doubt that he would have any sense of self left over at the point he was putting plans in motion. More than anything, I saw Lahabrea once we meet him in ARR as someone whose disregarding both the plots of the Ascians as well as their well-being. He doesn't care anymore. He was simply tired of pussy footing around with the subtle machinations of his kind and wanted to take a more direct approach. The fact that it didn't seem like the First was ready for a Rejoining, nor any other shard, means that a lot of what he was doing wasn't along with the desires of the rest of the Ascians.

Elidibus, on the other hand, had a completely separate issue. Where as Laha was driven mad by the Heart of Sabik, Elidibus was the heart of Zodiark. The only reason he even was around is because he removed himself in some fashion, allowing himself to exist in the world in a... lesser fashion. Out of the entire group of Ascians, he's the only one that doesn't do anything action wise until much further into the story. Part of this could simply be thanks to his role within the Ascians themselves, but I personally think part of it was simply the fact that he didn't have the energy for it. After spending so long as the Heart of Zodiark, he was probably just there more as a figure head than anything else. And then you get to the problem of him possessing the bodies.

Considering how Elidibus acts, the idea of him being the 'Heart' of the Dark Primal is probably quite literal. To the point that any and all bodies he possess afterwards tends to flavor his actions and thoughts. Look how he acts right before the Seat of Sacrifice. He's confused, uncertain. He remembers making a promise but the who and the why of it escapes him. All he knows is the call of Zodiark at that point. While that promise could be referring to stuff in the later Endwalker raids (I'll fully admit I don't quite 100% remember if there is such a thing that happens between his Pandemonium counterpart in the WoL), you could easily see it as that being more Ardberts memories and life coming to the front. Elidibus is the HEART, he's there to move the body, not to be it's WILL.

The only character I do agree with and you could even see evidence as 'working against himself' here would probably be Emet. Part of this does come from his actions, but the other part is the fact that he's willing to see past the casts' unfinished state. As he said: 'I was actually willing to take you on as allies.... so long as s/he could contain the light.'. The whole point of him saying that was the fact that he wanted to see if the half complied people of the source were able to stand on par and as one like the Ancients of old. And if they could, he'd believe his work closer to done than not.

Not only that, but the way he holds himself as Emet VS Hades of Endwalker. You can clearly see the thousands and thousands of lifetimes have weighed heavier on his shoulders than any other Ascian, to the point that his character model is bowed down. He doesn't ever stand straight because there's no point in it, if he's run, he'll just do his job and move on to yet another bit of work like he's done so many times before. And he's tired. Exhausted from the never ending work. He, more than anyone else, simply wants it to end and knows that they've still got so much more work in sight in front of him before he even thinks he's able to relax. But he can't go against the Temporing of Zodiark's will. And so he stews, he does his job because he has to. And out of all the characters, Emet-Selch would be the only one I could see manipulating things to encourage his death. Because in the end, he would realize it wouldn't matter if they got their world back. It wouldn't be the same it once was and he's gone through too much to ever really enjoy it. He would only want one thing at that point...

To be remembered.