Why the Grind System is Pure Shit in Any Game

[Sialina]

I would not mind the grind if they fckin keep it in the long run for stuff achieved. But they nerf it every time and make it easier in the future expansions and makes me feel like i wasted my time for nothing.
For example the reputations in MOP for which i wasted a couple of months to get them all to exalted and then they nerfed it and you can make that in a day.

This, so much this, I've been thinking about making a thread especially about this. The reason I don't like grinds in wow either is because they always go in and nerf them.
Sure I understand it for things like allied races, but mounts? Just no, it's easy enough with flying and overgearing, we also don't need the quests to give 50x the rep, it just makes doing anything while it is current feel like a waste of time.
Take Anima for instance, I never bothered to gather anima in 9.0, why? Because I knew come 9.0.5, 9.1 and very very likely 9.2 it would get nerfed so much, and I was correct, now we are swimming in the stuff and I still didn't grind it, but I've still got too much just from passively getting it this patch.

[Beastiel]

You might care, others dont. Others in fact laugh and think its stupid to waste time grinding a mount reskin over hundreds of hours. And this should be really obvious too but you seem to miss it.

Naw its pretty obvious to me that it's not for everyone. Just seems like maybe people that don't like it should play a different game?

Or opt not to grind for those things?

[Crimson Spears]

This, so much this, I've been thinking about making a thread especially about this. The reason I don't like grinds in wow either is because they always go in and nerf them.
Sure I understand it for things like allied races, but mounts? Just no, it's easy enough with flying and overgearing, we also don't need the quests to give 50x the rep, it just makes doing anything while it is current feel like a waste of time.
Take Anima for instance, I never bothered to gather anima in 9.0, why? Because I knew come 9.0.5, 9.1 and very very likely 9.2 it would get nerfed so much, and I was correct, now we are swimming in the stuff and I still didn't grind it, but I've still got too much just from passively getting it this patch.

Some of this has to do with warring playerbases. The low effort max rewards players tend to defend terrible systems with a fervor rarely seen. It is why you have the loud voice screaming about how conduits are amazing or AP is the best system. Rarely these players engage with the system but their sense of inferiority towards others has them support any system that is seen as an annoyance towards better players.

Look at all those claiming they would LOVE the ability to make a "meaningful" rpg choice with covenants... where are they now?

[LeeRoyMahBoy]

Naw its pretty obvious to me that it's not for everyone. Just seems like maybe people that don't like it should play a different game?

Or opt not to grind for those things?

hurr durr - play a different game - hurrr-durr,
the go to response of idiots without argument.
(Just to clarify if it's not obvious to you: I'm not saying you specifically are an idiot, but if you take it upon you, well, that's not my problem )

God forbid anybody improves on the current shitty system you can't even grasp to look beyond.

[mbit]

Naw its pretty obvious to me that it's not for everyone. Just seems like maybe people that don't like it should play a different game?

Or opt not to grind for those things?

The defining quality of wow at its release was that it was more casual than any other mmo. Nowadays that changed. Its not surprising people complain about grind then.

[Kumorii]

Well, you don't like pain? How discriminating of you of masochists.

Sure there are options as to what is likeable, like strawberry, valonia or chocolate ice-cream. Shit flavored? No way you would rightly say, yet there are people with mental conditions who would say yes. But if you like grinding, your pov is objectively wrong, because you like something which is utterly wrong.

you just proved My point in that there is an objective reality we all are a part of, and if you like useless or downright idiotic stuff such as grinding, the problem is with you, not the rest of the world.

This is like a mad person trying to convince everyone else is insane tbh...you do you. Have fun.

[Dracullus]

So you go into a restaurant, order a large sundae, but are given uncooked broccoli first and they make you pay for both?
Or you go into a cinema to watch Avengers or whatever, but first you have to sit through watching two hours of crabs marching into the sea?

Sounds like concept of work that gives satisfaction at the end is completely alien for you. Or any kind of workout. Or productive life to be honest.

[LeeRoyMahBoy]

This is like a mad person trying to convince everyone else is insane tbh...you do you. Have fun.

Well, the truth is hard to swallow, but if you can't accept reality for what it is, you should look into yourself first.
Maybe there is hope for you yet, maybe not, it's up to you.

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Sounds like concept of work that gives satisfaction at the end is completely alien for you. Or any kind of workout. Or productive life to be honest.

Oh, so you try to project your own insecurities about your body,
and your disability of being a productive member of society as a whole unto people like me,
who actually promote interactive systems?

Yeah, you'll have to try harder than that, pal

[Crimson Spears]

Sounds like concept of work that gives satisfaction at the end is completely alien for you. Or any kind of workout. Or productive life to be honest.

Most just go towards difficulty rather then repetition. I could of stayed at mcdonalds my entire life. I would of worked far harder then I do as a electrical engineer but I would dare say I wouldn't be as satisfied with my life.

Only barbarians boost about hardship.

[Dracullus]

Most just go towards difficulty rather then repetition. I could of stayed at mcdonalds my entire life. I would of worked far harder then I do as a electrical engineer but I would dare say I wouldn't be as satisfied with my life.

Only barbarians boost about hardship.

Some stuff you just must repeat. Hell, most stuff in life are just routines you have to keep up. Challenging stuff are on top of that. Only way to reduce "grind" is to pass "grind" to someone else if you get high enough (or started high enough). But you know, even Bezos have to brush his teeth (I think).

Heh, just like in WoW. It's not surprising, MMO mimic many life mechanisms after all.

[mbit]

Some stuff you just must repeat. Hell, most stuff in life are just routines you have to keep up. Challenging stuff are on top of that. Only way to reduce "grind" is to pass "grind" to someone else if you get high enough (or started high enough). But you know, even Bezos have to brush his teeth (I think).

Heh, just like in WoW. It's not surprising, MMO mimic many life mechanisms after all.

any ingame grind is a dev decision and not mandatory to exist

[Crimson Spears]

Some stuff you just must repeat. Hell, most stuff in life are just routines you have to keep up. Challenging stuff are on top of that. Only way to reduce "grind" is to pass "grind" to someone else if you get high enough (or started high enough). But you know, even Bezos have to brush his teeth (I think).

Heh, just like in WoW. It's not surprising, MMO mimic many life mechanisms after all.

That or we could just not have it. Have rewards that scale up with difficulty that comes directly from the content in question rather then trying to desperately add pointless systems to content the playerbase would clearly ignore without it.

[Dracullus]

That or we could just not have it. Have rewards that scale up with difficulty that comes directly from the content in question rather then trying to desperately add pointless systems to content the playerbase would clearly ignore without it.

I know "WoD" argument is overused, but you literally describe WoD. In general "raid or die" patches get worse reception than grindy ones. But of course there must be some good reward in the end, not grinding->losing->grinding again same Azerite traits like back in 8.0.

[Skavee]

Stuff i.e currencies or progressing a "system" should come by doing the content you enjoy.
Take soul ash/cinders as an example. Yo enjoy m+? you get some after completion, same for bgs/arenas, raids. Even quests/world quests are fine. The same could work for grinding reputation.
If spamming dungeons using faction X tabard is a problem then cap the rep at the weekly equivalent from quests. Not every currency has to be tide to hard content, certainly not an expansion feature.
I'm saying this as a CE raider. I enjoy hard content, but doing something chill like blasting through easy content blowing everything up is also enjoyable from time to time.

[Dhrizzle]

Hate to break it to you, but playing video games enhances brain functionality in addition to providing entertainment.
What is meaningless is arbitrary restrictions enforced upon you by developers so that you can't play the game properly. Ergo: timegating, grinding etc.

Arbitrary restrictions are what make video games into games. Maybe you should play something like Minecraft on Creative mode and give yourself every items so you can get that totally not meaningless and definitely not an illusory sense of achievement you crave.

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That makes grinding even more meaningless... I always hate the "real" take without taking it to its logical conclusion.

The logical conclusion is that all video games are ultimately meaningless on any reasonable scale of human accomplishment, so what is the point of dissing one particular aspect of a genre of games?

[LeeRoyMahBoi]

Arbitrary restrictions are what make video games into games. Maybe you should play something like Minecraft on Creative mode and give yourself every items so you can get that totally not meaningless and definitely not an illusory sense of achievement you crave.

The logical conclusion is that all video games are ultimately meaningless on any reasonable scale of human accomplishment, so what is the point of dissing one particular aspect of a genre of games?

1. grinding exists only to lengthen playtime without giving anything in return. As I told you earlier, which you already seem to forget due to your goldfish memory, video games by themselves are actually a worthwhile pastime, although you need some intellect for them to improve upon it, so maybe they won't do any good for you specifically.

2. grinding as a system is shit, specifically because it caters to brain-dead idiots such as yourself. Their sole reason is to inflate something beyond its actual value.

[Dhrizzle]

1. grinding exists only to lengthen playtime without giving anything in return. As I told you earlier, which you already seem to forget due to your goldfish memory, video games by themselves are actually a worthwhile pastime, although you need some intellect for them to improve upon it, so maybe they won't do any good for you specifically.

What do you mean grinding doesn't give you anything? The whole point of a grind is it ends with you getting a reward of some point. Otherwise you're not like grinding you're just randomly playing bits game with no clue what or why you're doing it. Is that what you've been doing?

2. grinding as a system is shit, specifically because it caters to brain-dead idiots such as yourself. Their sole reason is to inflate something beyond its actual value.

I have to ask, given your unfavourable and poorly expressed opinion about grinding how on earth did you end up whining on a forum for a game in a genre so dedicated to the mechanic?

Also what is the difference between the "actual" and "inflated" values, and how do you calculate them?

[LeeRoyMahBoi]

What do you mean grinding doesn't give you anything? The whole point of a grind is it ends with you getting a reward of some point. Otherwise you're not like grinding you're just randomly playing bits game with no clue what or why you're doing it. Is that what you've been doing?



I have to ask, given your unfavourable and poorly expressed opinion about grinding how on earth did you end up whining on a forum for a game in a genre so dedicated to the mechanic?

Also what is the difference between the "actual" and "inflated" values, and how do you calculate them?

It is not the grind that gives you rewards. In case you haven't noticed, grinding is an unnecessary extra step on top of meaningful content, such as fights, story or interacting with NPC-s, objects, or players. Grinding by definition means do these things, but strip it of their meaning: as in do this thing 1000 times, then wait an arbitrary time-gated amount preferably a week or a month, do it another thousand times, then wait again and so on.

Get somebody who can read and re-read my very first post, how any game can avoid grinding by making every activity varied.
Don't let that person go yet! I'll write it out to you in small bits, what the difference between actual and inflated content is:

Actual content: Where you must use at least half of your brain (in your case maybe all) - meaning: Battles, Completing quest objectives, Interactions with the world and everything that lives in it preferably organically.

Inflated content: 1. Take the actual content 2.) Inflate the shit out of it, then spread it out for however long it is possible.

Examples:
- Kill the same mob 5'000 times over the course of 3 months.
- Mine the same node 10'000 times over the course of 5 months.
- Turn in the same quest 50'000 times over the course of 8 months
And so on.

[Dhrizzle]

It is not the grind that gives you rewards. In case you haven't noticed, grinding is an unnecessary extra step on top of meaningful content, such as fights, story or interacting with NPC-s, objects, or players. Grinding by definition means do these things, but strip it of their meaning: as in do this thing 1000 times, then wait an arbitrary time-gated amount preferably a week or a month, do it another thousand times, then wait again and so on.

If your actions have lost all meaning then you're no longer grinding because you've already got all the meaningful stuff out of it. Then you're just repeating the actions with no possibility of reward. If you find yourself just randomly killing mobs with no idea why you're probably playing wrong.

If I wanted a game where you just have to flit through things and do them once I'd stick to single-player stories and steer clear of online RPGs which again brings me to ask why you're on a forum for a game that has had grinding built in since it first launched. I don't mind grinding, I think it can be enjoyable as long as I like the gameplay and game world. You on the other hand think it's shit, so why have you decided to eat shit for the last dozen or so years?

Actual content: Where you must use at least half of your brain (in your case maybe all) - meaning: Battles, Completing quest objectives, Interactions with the world and everything that lives in it preferably organically.

"Grinding" isn't any less mentally taxing than playing the content for the first time. What it does is give you the chance to incrementally improve on the way you navigate the world and tackle the repeated content. It also gives you a chance to see how gear is increasing your power as the mobs get easier to kill and less dangerous.

Inflated content: 1. Take the actual content 2.) Inflate the shit out of it, then spread it out for however long it is possible.

Examples:
- Kill the same mob 5'000 times over the course of 3 months.
- Mine the same node 10'000 times over the course of 5 months.
- Turn in the same quest 50'000 times over the course of 8 months
And so on.

None of these examples reflect the actual reality of the game, the fact that you have to exaggerate to a ridiculous degree to make your point neatly illustrates how bad the point is.

[LeeRoyMahBoi]

If your actions have lost all meaning then you're no longer grinding because you've already got all the meaningful stuff out of it. Then you're just repeating the actions with no possibility of reward. If you find yourself just randomly killing mobs with no idea why you're probably playing wrong.

If I wanted a game where you just have to flit through things and do them once I'd stick to single-player stories and steer clear of online RPGs which again brings me to ask why you're on a forum for a game that has had grinding built in since it first launched. I don't mind grinding, I think it can be enjoyable as long as I like the gameplay and game world. You on the other hand think it's shit, so why have you decided to eat shit for the last dozen or so years?

"Grinding" isn't any less mentally taxing than playing the content for the first time. What it does is give you the chance to incrementally improve on the way you navigate the world and tackle the repeated content. It also gives you a chance to see how gear is increasing your power as the mobs get easier to kill and less dangerous.

None of these examples reflect the actual reality of the game, the fact that you have to exaggerate to a ridiculous degree to make your point neatly illustrates how bad the point is.

I have never grinded in my entire life. I leave that shit to assholes like you.

Yet I still enjoy every new patch to its fullest. go figure.
I vary my playstyle and games so it never gets dull instead.

If you repeat the same content again and again just to see some incremental ant's dick length of improvement, instead of playing new content you haven't seen before, there really is something wrong with your brain.

the fact that you yet again fail to read my entrée post, and fail to realize what inflated, meaningless content is, is doubly hilarious. Even rats get bored of the same shit after a while, but I guess this proves people like you are even below them.