Class Skins would add many new classes and be a major draw for a new expansion

[AcidicSyn]

I have a question for the tinkers. However I do not want to derail the thread so I am going to ask this question within the bounds of a tinker class skin:

Would this tinker (class-skin) have both goblin and gnomish engineering styles? I'd think it would be important to have them be distinct no? At least with the way the factions work today, there are few goblins/gnomes that would incorporate the others style into their own gizmos.

Certainly horde would be limited to Goblin/BE tech while the Alliance was limited to Gnomish/Draenei tech? Each skill would have to be skinned accordingly right? Using animation and effects specific to each style?

[Cosmic Janitor]

I have a question for the tinkers. However I do not want to derail the thread so I am going to ask this question within the bounds of a tinker class skin:

Would this tinker (class-skin) have both goblin and gnomish engineering styles? I'd think it would be important to have them be distinct no? At least with the way the factions work today, there are few goblins/gnomes that would incorporate the others style into their own gizmos.

Certainly horde would be limited to Goblin/BE tech while the Alliance was limited to Gnomish/Draenei tech? Each skill would have to be skinned accordingly right? Using animation and effects specific to each style?

I think much of it would come down to do racial forms, much like druids the mech suits would be racially themed. Customizing spell effects is something wow usually does not do for any class, with the exception of animations (though that is phased out as well). So I think that would be the extent of it either way.

[draugril]

I think much of it would come down to do racial forms, much like druids the mech suits would be racially themed. Customizing spell effects is something wow usually does not do for any class, with the exception of animations (though that is phased out as well). So I think that would be the extent of it either way.

Precisely. Goblins would get their own tech, Gnomes theirs, Draenei could get weird and crystally with it, Orcs could hearken back to WoD stuff and so on. Although I'd rather Orcs get straight up Druids, but this would be an acceptable compromise.

[jellmoo]

I have a question for the tinkers. However I do not want to derail the thread so I am going to ask this question within the bounds of a tinker class skin:

Would this tinker (class-skin) have both goblin and gnomish engineering styles? I'd think it would be important to have them be distinct no? At least with the way the factions work today, there are few goblins/gnomes that would incorporate the others style into their own gizmos.

Certainly horde would be limited to Goblin/BE tech while the Alliance was limited to Gnomish/Draenei tech? Each skill would have to be skinned accordingly right? Using animation and effects specific to each style?

My take would be to have two styles, one Horde and one Alliance, with Gnomish and Goblin being the prevalent theme respectively, but you could add touches for other races as well. There could be a lot of overlap between the two though. For example, while the would pilot different looking mechs in the tank form, the animations for the attacks would be identical.

I would imagine it would be very similar to the way Druid forms currently work. Various aesthetic differences to give them a certain level of uniqueness, but tied together to imply their overall similarity.

[Triceron]

Mostly the heals yeah, but a few obviously nature spells like Entangling Roots and Hurricane, plus the solar/astral spells

Solar Lunar adapted to Heat and Exhaust, Rockets and Explosive Blasts generate heat, Lasers disperse it.

Sunfire -> Gun/cannon blast
Wrath -> Rockets
Moonfire -> Aerial Bombardment (Laser)
Starfall -> Orbital Bombardment (many lasers)
Hurricane -> Cluster Rockets (both are channeled AoEs, visually just have lots of little rockets spread around)
Entangling Roots -> Trap-o-matic 2000 (adapted 5oul tr4p as a root instead of banish]
Force of Nature -> Clockwerk Robots

Your mileage may vary

As for heals, we're looking at an assoetment of Heal over Time mechanics. So basically adapt anything Tech or Sciency to hands free, fire-and-forget type of abilities.

I can see three examples to adapt healing
- Nano-Tech, just go straight up Sci Fi with this and go ham
- Healing Drones and Healing Beams. Tiny drones that appear and swirl around healing a target
- Chemical healing. A bit trickier to visually adapt, but could still work with the Drones concept

And with drones in play, visuals just get adapted for bigger spells. Tranquility had similar beamy effects, just have a drone in the sky or some emitter device on the ground to represent tech. Any Heal over Time just has a tiny drone swirl around the character, ala Boneshield visuals, and a particle effect that swirls around connecting to the target.

Tree of life form is obviously a mech. And I think that sorta covers it

[AcidicSyn]

I think much of it would come down to do racial forms, much like druids the mech suits would be racially themed. Customizing spell effects is something wow usually does not do for any class, with the exception of animations (though that is phased out as well). So I think that would be the extent of it either way.

I would hope they would at least get the druid/shaman treatment. It would look weird for a Gnome to use a goblin shredder to me.

My take would be to have two styles, one Horde and one Alliance, with Gnomish and Goblin being the prevalent theme respectively, but you could add touches for other races as well. There could be a lot of overlap between the two though. For example, while the would pilot different looking mechs in the tank form, the animations for the attacks would be identical.

I would imagine it would be very similar to the way Druid forms currently work. Various aesthetic differences to give them a certain level of uniqueness, but tied together to imply their overall similarity.

Yeah, I suppose that would be enough. Like someone was talking about eject before and the pilot using a goblin glider to come back down after using it. I suppose it would be fairly simple to just reskin/recolor the glider to look more goblinny or gnomeish.

I like the idea of the different races being shown though, perhaps not even just by those races. An Alliance Tinker for example could use Dranei tech as well as Gnomish tech without having to be either themselves. IE: using Draenei crystals for powersources and gnomish clockwork stuff for the appendages, etc.

[draugril]

I would hope they would at least get the druid/shaman treatment. It would look weird for a Gnome to use a goblin shredder to me.



Yeah, I suppose that would be enough. Like someone was talking about eject before and the pilot using a goblin glider to come back down after using it. I suppose it would be fairly simple to just reskin/recolor the glider to look more goblinny or gnomeish.

I like the idea of the different races being shown though, perhaps not even just by those races. An Alliance Tinker for example could use Dranei tech as well as Gnomish tech without having to be either themselves. IE: using Draenei crystals for powersources and gnomish clockwork stuff for the appendages, etc.

If they ever go with modular design for Druid forms (allowing you to choose certain body parts, ornamentation, colours, etc.), this would perfectly compliment the Tinker fantasy of designing your own unique machinations.

[AcidicSyn]

If they ever go with modular design for Druid forms (allowing you to choose certain body parts, ornamentation, colours, etc.), this would perfectly compliment the Tinker fantasy of designing your own unique machinations.

Ooo that sounds like a blast. Sort of how Mechagnomes can pick parts, I like it.

[jellmoo]

Yeah, I suppose that would be enough. Like someone was talking about eject before and the pilot using a goblin glider to come back down after using it. I suppose it would be fairly simple to just reskin/recolor the glider to look more goblinny or gnomeish.

I like the idea of the different races being shown though, perhaps not even just by those races. An Alliance Tinker for example could use Dranei tech as well as Gnomish tech without having to be either themselves. IE: using Draenei crystals for powersources and gnomish clockwork stuff for the appendages, etc.

I think Blizzard could tackle it a few ways.

If they wanted to release it as a concept more quickly, they could start with the Faction specific method. So say the Gnomish and Goblin aesthetic. They could then release updates for other races, replacing some of the cosmetics as time went on.

The beauty of the Class Skin method is that a rolling release method only impacts the department tasked and doesn't require additional effort from other groups. IT could be done in a similar way as they did when they did the racial model updates.

[LedZeppelin]

No, it would be a tinker? You couldn't switch between tinker and druid, similiar to Tauren and Highmountain Tauren. It would look like a tinker. It's spells would look like tinker spells. The only things they would have in common is that the underlying MECHANICS would be the same as the druids. I couldn't care less about that, but than again, I play the game for cosmetics and I have multiple alts of each class because playing a bloodelf hunter feels different enough to playing an orc hunter already.

Or in other words - I rather take 12 new class skins/spec combinations that double the amount of class fantasies instead of none or just one new class. And this is the only way to get niche fantasies like Night Warrior, Blade Master or Dark Ranger fullfilled - similiar to niche fantasies of Zandalari Troll, Highmountain Tauren or Lightforged Draenai.

yeah but like, it would be a druid and a tinker aka a tinker druid

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Is that like a Druid with Engineering?

A druid...with tinker...ing

[AcidicSyn]

yeah but like, it would be a druid and a tinker aka a tinker druid

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A druid...with tinker...ing

Is that a druid who tinkers? Or a tinker who is into environmentalism?

[username993720]

Although I'd rather Orcs get straight up Druids, but this would be an acceptable compromise.

[LedZeppelin]

Is that a druid who tinkers? Or a tinker who is into environmentalism?

there is much to be explored in the design space

[draugril]

That's my Rala.

[username993720]

I'm just gonna leave this here, since you guys built your whole concept around the notion of forms:

Warcraft 3

Robo-Goblin
Transforms the Tinker into a Robo-Goblin, a powerful armored form that has the following traits:
+5 strength and +1 armor.
Use of the Demolish ability, which grants bonus damage against buildings.
The Tinker becomes mechanical, rendering him immune to stun, most offensive spells, and several beneficial spells.

As a mechanical unit, the Robo Goblin is similar to a building. Most spells doesn't work on him, and you can even use workers to repair him. Being immune to spells such as Frost Nova, Death Coil, Storm Bolt, etc, he is good against any nuking-strategies your opponents may be using. One of his specialities is storming enemy bases solo. Towers and other buildings are destroyed fast and when the enemy tries to come back, he can simply run away or use Staff of Teleportation (which is almost impossible to interrupt, as no stuns work on the Goblin Tinker) to return home.

The Tinker can switch between his Robo-Goblin form and tinker form whenever he want, given he has enough mana (25). This is very nifty for when you want to heal him with spells such as Holy Light or Healing Wave.

Robo-Goblin Counters
The Robo-Goblin's weakness is that he cannot be healed by friendly spells. If you focus your attacks on him, you might be able to kill him before he reverts into his organic form so he can be healed.

Bear Form
Transforms the Druid into a bear, slowing mana regeneration, but making him an excellent warrior. While in Bear Form he cannot cast any spells unless you upgrade to Mark of the Claw, allowing you to use Roar in Bear Form.

If you no longer need the Druid of the Claw as a spellcaster, turn him into a Bear and use him as a melee unit.

Metamorphosis
Transforms the Demon Hunter into a powerful demon with a ranged attack (600 range) and 500 bonus hit points.

In addition to the bonuses above, the Demon Hunter obtains increased health regeneration. His attacks also deal Chaos damage (making it effective against all armor types) and has area of effect properties making him effective against clustered units. Thanks to Agility being his primary skill, he will also attack faster which compliments the attack's splash effects.

Metamorphosis Counters
Kill the Demon Hunter quickly with focused fire and Heroes who have spells that deal considerable damage.

Heroes of the Storm

Robo-Goblin
Activate to become Unstoppable (immunity to CC) for 1.5 seconds.
Passive: Basic Attacks deal 90 bonus damage over 5 seconds, stacking up to 3 times.

Metamorphosis
Transform into Demon Form at the target location, dealing 46 damage in the area. Temporarily increases maximum Health by 220 for each Hero hit by the initial impact. Lasts for 18 seconds.

World of Warcraft

Bear Form
Shapeshift into Bear Form, increasing armor by 220% and Stamina by 45%, granting protection from Polymorph effects, and increasing threat generation.

The act of shapeshifting frees you from movement impairing effects.

Metamorphosis (Vengeance)
Leap into the air and land with explosive force, dealing (36.036% of Attack power) Chaos damage to enemies within 8 yds, and stunning them for 3 sec. Players are Dazed for 3 sec instead.

Upon landing, you are transformed into a hellish demon for 30 sec, greatly empowering your Chaos Strike and Blade Dance abilities.

Cat Form
Shapeshift into Cat Form, increasing auto-attack damage by 40%, movement speed by 30%, granting protection from Polymorph effects, and reducing falling damage.

The act of shapeshifting frees you from movement impairing effects.

Metamorphosis (Havoc)
Leap into the air and land with explosive force, dealing (36.036% of Attack power) Chaos damage to enemies within 8 yds, and stunning them for 3 sec. Players are Dazed for 3 sec instead.

Upon landing, you are transformed into a hellish demon for 30 sec, immediately resetting the cooldown of your Eye Beam and Blade Dance abilities, greatly empowering your Chaos Strike and Blade Dance abilities and gaining 25% Haste.



It's almost like they were designed differently and play differently

[draugril]

Tinkers aren't playable, though, so we don't know what a WoW incarnation of the class would play like.

[Lady Atia]

yeah but like, it would be a druid and a tinker aka a tinker druid

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A druid...with tinker...ing

No, it would be either a tinker or a druid. You couldn't switch between these lol.

[Ielenia]

You know that's a contradiction right?

Had you not ignored and instead read the 75 words made out of 474 characters that succeeded that tiny portion you decided to respond to, you'd realize your question was answered already.

Uh, they don't because Death Knights and Necromancers had the ability to raise the dead at the same time.

Death knights never raised skeletons. Also, I'll repeat another part you're ignoring:

In your own words: "the point still stands". Necromancers have the "monopoly" in skeleton rising, and the unholy frenzy ability, according to your own logic.

The whole concept of buffing undead minions "belongs exclusively to the necromancer", according to your logic.

No, the point is that there is currently a class in WoW that specializes in raising the dead and summons a menagerie of undead minions, so it is doubtful that there will be another class that raises the dead and summons a menagerie of undead pets. Further, unlike Warlocks, the current WoW DK class has always had the ability to summon undead minions.

And now we circle back to here:

Ask yourself this: "if this entire concept behind this mechanics revolves around transforming into a demon, why wouldn't this mechanic go to the existing class that specializes in transforming into a demon? Why do we need to create an entirely new class just to come up with a new way to transform into a demon?"

And yet we have the demon hunter class, anyways.

Again: this concept of "monopoly of concepts/abilities" is a dumb argument, that holds no water in the game's current design.

A chance that Blizzard would remove the DKs ability to summon undead? Like I said, zero chance of that happening.

And like I said: you are factually wrong about that, because there is always a non-null chance.

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druid tinkers are the dumbest thing ive seen mentioned in forums...

Except it's not "druid tinkers". It's just a tinker class that uses the same mechanics and abilities as the druid class, albeit with different names and visual effects.

[Triceron]

It's almost like they were designed differently and play differently

They are, because they're all actually playable in those games.

There's no guarantee that any non-playable concepts would be translated as classes in WoW though. Some get merged into completely different class fantasies as a spec, like melee-centric Beastmaster being a spec for a class that covers Archers, Riflemen, Rangers and Headhunters. Class concepts like Shadow Hunters, Bards, PotM, Blademasters and Runemasters don't exist in WoW, and there's an infinite number of ways to adapt them as being playable including as class skins.

This is just one particular hypothetical, because game mechanics aren't always going to be unique for everything. Haruspex in the lore are literally different from Druids, yet they share the same gameplay and are effectively considered Druids. "The Zandalar know not of druidic ways; nature is to be shaped by their need, not the other way around. Sunwalkers are closer to Druids than they would be to the other Paladins of their order, and only recently have certain Sunwalkers formally made the jump to join the Silver Hand. Yet these concepts could have just as much gotten their own gameplay instead of being a part of existing classes.

The biggest example of an outlier that is grouped into the class is probably Shadow Priest though, since their lore doesn't even make sense any more. At the start, they were always posed as being 'two sides of the same coin', and since then Void has been branched off as its own entire cosmic realm and a complete antithesis of Light, which is what the Priest should actually be themed around. Shadow no longer has anything to do with relating to the Light, it's all about Old God influences... which doesn't even make sense applying to the lore of most Priest races like Night Elf, Druid, Draenei and Pandaren who would never openly use Old God magic in the lore. By all means, 'Old Gods' themes should have been broken off into its own class, while 'Shadow Priest' remained relevant to the Forsaken Cult of Shadow and the Witchdoctor style of 'Dark magic'.

[LedZeppelin]

No, it would be either a tinker or a druid. You couldn't switch between these lol.

And yet, here we are