Why the negative response to all the positive changes in 9.1.5

[arandomuser]

You are a very naive person if you believe this is because of the "new management" or that they're listening to feedback.

People are mad because it took nearly 1 year of live and several months of beta worth of complains about the shit systems.

all of the people complaining i think never actually played on the ptr and left feedback on it
its only months after release people start complaining about systems then magically say " we knew this specific problem since testing, we just never mentioned it" yet when testing was going on nobody was giving specific feedback except " just remove all systems 4Head" which isnt helpful

legion had alot of "systems" and it was one of the best xpacs ever made

[Echo of Soul]

Did you expect them to change the game from 9.1 to 9.1.5?

Exactly. Until they prove that their design philosophy has changed it's be sceptical. A single patch won't undo years of mismanagement.

[bmjclark]

People gave this feedback during beta, people shouldn't have to play a broken game for 10 months waiting for Blizzard to get their head out of their ass. It seriously took a sexual harassment lawsuit for them to start doing the things they should have been doing months ago and that's just pathetic. Next expansion will have the same cycle. Release a broken system -> ignore feedback in alpha -> ignore feedback in beta -> ignore feedback in 9.0 -> ignore feedback in 9.1 -> look guys, we fixed all the systems for 9.1.5/9.2/9.3!

Also, if you read their post, they don't even think they were wrong. I'd of been much more forgiving if they came out and posted "Hey, we fucked up and we really thought we had a good system but we can see now that we were wrong and it won't happen again". Their post essentially said "Hey, we were right but we're going to make covenant switching easier because we think the story allows it now"

[brinkber245]

It's pretty normal for anyone in an abusive relationship to be skeptical of the motivations behind the other party when they suddenly start saying the right things just as the threat of leaving becomes real

[Empower]

It's pretty normal for anyone in an abusive relationship to be skeptical of the motivations behind the other party when they suddenly start saying the right things just as the threat of leaving becomes real

I always wonder what keeps so many wow players around... J know why I log in. I can't find better group pve content that is as difficult or well tuned and believe me I've tried.

Outside of raiding and pvp through I would be lying if I said I understood why others stay. I've found better content and communities in other games for non raiders.

[Deferionus]

Everyone is complaining its some desperate attempt to grab players back that should have been in game from the start. People still flaming blizz and the new systems coming in 9.1.5.

New management is taking over and immediately making positive changes, why is this a bad thing? This is a promising thing for the future.
I've played more heavily than I would like to admit since TBC and this already was a more alt friendly/new player than other expansions (even more so than Legion and BfA were which seem to be the most similar comparisons to modern wow). Now I do admit I mainly M+ and can gear a toon to 230+ in about a week and already have 4 alts key logging, but as someone that mainly stays off the toxic forums and just enjoys the game I don't see much validation in the complaints besides, possibly, entering pvp as a new/alt player. Is this just an echo chamber for blizz bashing now?

For the last 3+ expansions people have given feedback during the beta and Blizzard has many statements saying they are not doing the changes the players recommend. Then over the course of the expansions, those changes are implemented, and generally it is in the last patch of the expac. So you are going 1 to 1.5 years without your feedback being in the game, and then when the expansion starts to wind down, your changes are made. Many times these changes just make life more convenient and quicker for the players.

At this point, why come back? You get the quality changes added for the 2nd half of the expansion and then next expansion its business as usual. We will have a beta, people will make recommendations, Blizzard will say "No, this is the way it is," and then a year later we will get what was originally asked for. It's no surprise that the classic game feel better at the core and only lack the QOL dev the modern game has.

[Pheraz]

I mean, they have to defend it otherwise they would have to outright admit that they did a terrible job and take responsibility for the failure of those systems. Much better optics to just say "it accomplished what we wanted at that time but circumstances have changed enough to warrant change from our original vision" while still effectively conceding to the criticisms. It's a way to save face.



How is Asmongold a racist?

There is a whole thread on a different forum with pictures and videos of his racist coming outs. I'll link when I find it again if no-one is faster

Edit: ah, here we go https://www.resetera.com/threads/wow...-slurs.458604/

[Magnificent Madmartegan]

Sorry but I'm trying to figure out what systems in SL are "bad" or "wrong".... is it the covenants and the inability to just jump between them willy nilly.... that makes sense. People seem to forget that WoW at its core is a MMORPG... key in on the RPG part of it. There's a little thing called "choices have consequences". If you're able to just jump ship from one covenant to another on a whim then you're not really making a choice with any impact, therefore not really a choice at all. You're just flip floppy around for the kick of it, once again nullifying ANY impact on the player or the game/community. Was that not a complaint ages ago that nothing seemed to have any impact in the game. True it seems to change every expansion but at least for that expansion what you choose to do has a impact. Getting rid of anything like that breaks away even more from the RPG element that the game used to be. Yet apparently that was the "player-base" wants.... they want WoW to quit being a RPG and turn it into a derpy sandbox where no choices matter, nothing has a lasting effect (even if its just for that expansion) and just do whatever I want. I'm sorry but its freaking stupid to complain about it!!

[Th3Scourge]

Because we told them after Blizzcon and they said trust us we'll make it work
Because we told them when Alpha launched and they said trust us we'll make it work
Because we told them when beta launched and they ignored us and pushed ahead

They did this in Shadowlands
They did this in BFA
They did this in Legion

Now we've spent almost a year beta testing a second-rate product. All because game decisions are made in the interest of MAUs and spreadsheets.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry but I'm trying to figure out what systems in SL are "bad" or "wrong".... is it the covenants and the inability to just jump between them willy nilly.... that makes sense. People seem to forget that WoW at its core is a MMORPG... key in on the RPG part of it. There's a little thing called "choices have consequences". If you're able to just jump ship from one covenant to another on a whim then you're not really making a choice with any impact, therefore not really a choice at all. You're just flip floppy around for the kick of it, once again nullifying ANY impact on the player or the game/community. Was that not a complaint ages ago that nothing seemed to have any impact in the game. True it seems to change every expansion but at least for that expansion what you choose to do has a impact. Getting rid of anything like that breaks away even more from the RPG element that the game used to be. Yet apparently that was the "player-base" wants.... they want WoW to quit being a RPG and turn it into a derpy sandbox where no choices matter, nothing has a lasting effect (even if its just for that expansion) and just do whatever I want. I'm sorry but its freaking stupid to complain about it!!

Give it up already with the meaningful choice bullshit. It's not a meaningful choice, its an engagement metric. Stop eating the shit they are feeding you

[chiddie]

Exactly. Points should come from a bunch of different activites. Harder content should be more effective though, a m+15 that takes 10 minutes to complete shouldn't award the same amount as 5 world quests that take 2 minutes each.

This is out of question and in fact balancing rewards taking into account both effort and difficulty is the most difficult task. A 10 minutes difficult dungeon should feel more rewarding than a couple of 5 minutes WQ, but what if the WQ are 10 and so the minutes are 50 and not 5? It’s true I spent 5 time the dungeon time but it’s also true that content was easier, how do I adjust values in order not to feel I’m losing time doing one of the two activities?

It’s not an easy task, for sure.

[cool_freezer]

The problem wow had the past decade is the playerbase. Blizz impelements a new "tool"/system/content that sounds great on paper/sketchboard? Playerbase "abuses" it to hell and back again.
Look at what gearscore did back in wrath. See what M+ did with all that "free" ilvl gear did... the community "forces" you to do m+ to raid. That's disgusting!
The player(base) nowadays is so elitist and egocentric that the only natural reaction i can have is vomiting....

[Goat7]

9.1.5 changes good? sure, should of happened a long time ago. 9.1.5 changes enough? NO, not even close.

KSM player, I cleared heroic and normal raids (dont do mythic) so that means my best loot comes from the weekly chest every week, which imo sucks ass and makes it almost pointless to raid. Time gated trash can content and choreghast. These things and things like these need to go. Make the game fun by just simply making it a MMORPG.

p2w model needs to go, that means WoW tokens need to go. The non stop spam in group finder and trade chat of sales groups would go bye bye if u get rid of tokens. Bots need to be banned weekly.

then maybe my friends and I would think about returning to the game. right now all blizzard is doing is what they have done in the past, nothing has changed.

[Nerovar]

There is a whole thread on a different forum with pictures and videos of his racist coming outs. I'll link when I find it again if no-one is faster

Edit: ah, here we go https://www.resetera.com/threads/wow...-slurs.458604/

The very first post in that thread has pictures that aren't even from Asmongold. Seems like a very poor smear campaign. I don't get why anyone would buy into this crap.

[neocount]

Because people are not happy unless they are tearing something down, complaining and carping to anyone that will listen.

Personally, I welcome the changes and look forward to seeing their implementation. I will continue to play WoW regardless, running M+ and raiding with friends and having fun. Had an absolute blast last night running a friend's freshly made mage through SD 12. The game is as fun as you make it.

[Osmeric]

Did you expect them to change the game from 9.1 to 9.1.5?

No, but do you expect me to change my mind about the game if they have not?

[Strike3rd]

Everyone is complaining its some desperate attempt to grab players back that should have been in game from the start. People still flaming blizz and the new systems coming in 9.1.5.

New management is taking over and immediately making positive changes, why is this a bad thing? This is a promising thing for the future.
I've played more heavily than I would like to admit since TBC and this already was a more alt friendly/new player than other expansions (even more so than Legion and BfA were which seem to be the most similar comparisons to modern wow). Now I do admit I mainly M+ and can gear a toon to 230+ in about a week and already have 4 alts key logging, but as someone that mainly stays off the toxic forums and just enjoys the game I don't see much validation in the complaints besides, possibly, entering pvp as a new/alt player. Is this just an echo chamber for blizz bashing now?

The only reason people are having negative opinions about 9.1.5 is because Blizzard has been doing this bullshit move since Legion. let me explain it:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Legion:
New legendary system introduced.
player feedback: too RNG. We need little control to target specific ones.
Blizzard: Sorry You are wrong.
1 year later:
Blizzard: We were wrong, u were right. Now U can target Legendaries. > System is good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BFA:
Blizzard: Hey guess what! we are scrapping a perfectly good system (Legendaries) and we are introducing azerite gear new system.
players feedback: What? Why? Alright. Azerite gear is bad. U can't trade it, perks are too imbalanced, system is unfun.
Blizzard: Trust me dude! it's good.
1 year later:
Blizzard: We were wrong, Azerite gear was bad because we didn't listen to your feedback.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shadowland:
Blizzard: Here is conduit and covenant systems
Player feedback: Why cut 75% of content from players by limiting covenant choices?
Blizzard: Woot? because of lore! We don't want you jumping between covenants cause everyone will be kyrian!
1 year later:
Blizzard: Ok guys u were right. We learned our lesson. U were right and we were wrong. Now u can experience all covenants on your main and conduit energy is scrapped.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not to mention the fact that since Legion, Blizzard had 0 respect for player time. In order to enjoy content. You were locked behind systems that require 100s of hours to grind and months of time gating.

This is why people are pissed.

At the end of the day, Blizzard is a company that makes decisions to make their game attractive. At the moment, they deserve to be in this position since all they were doing was trying to give the players the illusion of contents and systems that makes the players feel bad in the long run. All to maximize profits with the least amount of work.

Mark my post. Next expansion, Blizzard will do the exact same thing.

[Fitsu]

There is a whole thread on a different forum with pictures and videos of his racist coming outs. I'll link when I find it again if no-one is faster

Edit: ah, here we go https://www.resetera.com/threads/wow...-slurs.458604/

I read a few of them, none of them seem like racist or sexist comments. Most of it are out of context comments/jokes or comments/opinions on society that people are just pick & choosing then twisting to fit their narrative of him being those things. Like I notice how they haven't picked out any of the several times I've heard him defend different racists, sexes or go into detail how he isn't those things when questioned it. No they just picked up the times when he made comments that under the right light could have been percieved as racist/sexist.

All I see is here is people trying really hard to prove someone they don't like is racist/sexist. And usually when someone actually is racist/sexist you don't have to try that hard to prove it.

[mst3kfan]

Covenants weren't meaningful choice.

And video games aren't a charity. You can choose what you want to do with the game you're developing, but you aren't owed players' money. If they decide they don't like the way you're stubbornly going despite all calls to adjust by people who actually have to play through it, they're going to leave and you're going to bleed subs. Nothing entitled or petulant about that.

Leave then. Good riddance. Again that is your choice. You choose your Covenant. If you want to change Covenants you also have to choose, and go through the process they implemented. Their reactions these things are the petulance, and their crying to having everything without having to work for it is their entitlement. If you don't understand the concepts that's ok.

- - - Updated - - -

No it doesn't and finally they have realized it. Now its your turn.

P.S. Games are not "My second life/carreer" they are supposed to be fun. WoW used to be fun, now it feels like its a place where you must clock 6-8 hours and get paid at the end of the month (literally speaking, as most rewards come in a month or two after clocking the 6-8 hours).

If you are having to spend 6-8 hours a day playing the problem is on your end. You are not meant to get everything within the first day or two of a patch occurring. You are meant to play the game when you can and get them overtime. MMOs are not a sprint, they are a marathon. If you are looking for instant gratification you are playing not only the wrong game, but the wrong genre. Go play Fortnite, Roblox, or whatever other "insert name" nonsense game that will stroke your ego. You will probably just end up getting tea bagged either way.

[uopayroll]

It's the internet, it was invented for complaining

[Kathranis]

The best kind of enlightened centrism is to not actually have a set of opinions, beliefs, or values.

Sometimes people are being legitimate when they complain. Not everyone that has a pulse is somehow lesser than people who simply aren't invested. And if you aren't, you don't get to be on a pedestal about it.

If you unironically consider yourself a Centrist, get bent. Centrism is just Conservatism parading as fencesitting.

You can't actually balance two diametrically opposed ideologies. It's a lie. And you certainly shouldn't advocate for finding a middle ground between right and wrong when confronted with that dichotomy.