What are your thoughts on the suramar storyline?

[Thage]

The story doesnt have time to really give a justification for why the Nightborne don't immediately leave, so we are left with a story where Thalyssra comes across like the most callous bitch in the story, willing to see her saviors die horribly for the crime of not immediately asking them to join the Alliance.

It's the same reason the pandaren stuck with the Horde after Garrosh went on a racist rant and then threw them into a deathmatch against massive beasts from Northrend without warning. There's a point where you're in too deep; if Sylvanas just incinerated the night elves' main civilian population center (seemingly) out of spite because a night elf mildly sassed her, dollars to donuts says Thalyssra had no illusions the Horde would march on Suramar next if the Nightborne pulled out.

As for why they joined the Horde, it's a simple matter of diplomacy. The Nightborne wanted allies so they had places to fall back on while spreading back into the world (again, like the Huojin pandaren). Their choices were the Alliance, represented to them by Tyrande, who was outspoken about her lack of trust and intention to use the Nightfallen as cannon fodder, or the Horde, represented by Liadrin, who spent the whole war forging personal connections with leaders in the Nightfallen, empathizing with their plight, and drawing parallels to the blood elves' situation before joining the Horde.

That Sylvanas marched to war just as the ink was done drying and the Nightborne were officially part of the Horde is completely separate from their decision to join the Horde beforehand, and afterwards, leaving the Horde would have left them without allies and having just made enemies of someone who torched a city without a second thought and her massive army besides.

edit: Now, if you want to discuss actions that run counter to Thalyssra's established personality, we can discuss her and Lasan's complicity in the burning of Stormwind while they escaped with Talanji and Zul, instead of Thalyssra showing off her talents as First Arcanist by breaking the teleportation barriers Jaina and the other mages had put in place, or by setting up one of those relocation grids they used all the time in the Nightfallen storyline to circumvent said barriers.

[jellmoo]

At the time: Amazing. It was a large, sprawling questline with a zone that gave you tons to do, let you do things in the order you liked, and was both challenging in spots and visually breathtaking. It was engaging and rewarding content that could be the gold standard for what a patch should bring to the game.

1 patch later: If you were away from the game when Suramar launched though, it was a bit of a pain as you were likely trying to rush through it to get to the new stuff. In this case, you weren't able to appreciate it the when it was meant to, and you were doing everything you could to blitz through it. While this is true for all patch content, I felt that Suramar suffered more from it because of how detailed and involved it was.

Ultimately, Suramar was amazing, but suffered from the method that Blizzard uses to deliver content and gear upgrades. I'd love to see them take this approach to storytelling again in the future.

Oh, and as mentioned by others, having the Nightborne join the Horde was just bad storytelling. It made little to no sense, and was pretty obviously just a method of sharing elves, tall and short, with both factions. If ever there was a race that fit the notion of being a Neutral race since the Pandaren, it was them.

[Sondrelk]

At the time: Amazing. It was a large, sprawling questline with a zone that gave you tons to do, let you do things in the order you liked, and was both challenging in spots and visually breathtaking. It was engaging and rewarding content that could be the gold standard for what a patch should bring to the game.

1 patch later: If you were away from the game when Suramar launched though, it was a bit of a pain as you were likely trying to rush through it to get to the new stuff. In this case, you weren't able to appreciate it the when it was meant to, and you were doing everything you could to blitz through it. While this is true for all patch content, I felt that Suramar suffered more from it because of how detailed and involved it was.

Ultimately, Suramar was amazing, but suffered from the method that Blizzard uses to deliver content and gear upgrades. I'd love to see them take this approach to storytelling again in the future.

Oh, and as mentioned by others, having the Nightborne join the Horde was just bad storytelling. It made little to no sense, and was pretty obviously just a method of sharing elves, tall and short, with both factions. If ever there was a race that fit the notion of being a Neutral race since the Pandaren, it was them.

It wasnt until Shadowlands that I realized what Suramar really needed. What would have made that zone near perfect would have been Renown. A reward system that more organically allows players to both progress forward on a weekly basis, but also allows players to catch up quickly. Something that rewards players that have played since the beginning in other small ways, without overly punishing those that started late or are playing on alts.

[MrLachyG]

one of the best and complete storylines so far in whole WoW

would be better if there was a bit more story about raid bosses

for example, Elisande, while made some cameos,still makes no sense why did she join GulDan. she peered in future and saw that Legion would win in any version. so decided to go fel
but why? if she was so powerful in Time magic. why was she lied? did somebody blurr or manipulate her vision?

there was no explanation

You posted the same message 50 minutes apart

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It wasnt until Shadowlands that I realized what Suramar really needed. What would have made that zone near perfect would have been Renown. A reward system that more organically allows players to both progress forward on a weekly basis, but also allows players to catch up quickly. Something that rewards players that have played since the beginning in other small ways, without overly punishing those that started late or are playing on alts.

Yes. The mana grind was awful, especially if you were activating all the teleport pads etc. I can’t remember if they merged how much you need but yeah it was annoying to farm

[Soon-TM]

Good bad yes no any issues?

Good, but not terribly original, since it's basically a remake of belfs story in WC3/BC.

[Zuben]

Legion would've been so much less without it. Each zone was splendid on their own, but only a part of the bigger picture, which was the Legion invasion. With Suramar the zone's own story infused naturally with the main plot, providing a grand final chapter for 7.0. It was all downhill from there, as Broken Shore and even Argus failed to invoke the feeling Suramar gave us.

The downside is that there was a definitive end to it. What would've been natural for the nightborne afterwards is to stay put and lick their wounds. They had no reason to tie themselves to either faction, even if they wanted to reconnect to the world. I mean, Steamwheedle Cartel, Kirin Tor, all the neutral factions of the world are very much tolerated and used by both Horde and Alliance without necessitating full allegiance. Marrying the nightborne to the Horde was something the devs did for gameplay purpose and they couldn't figure out a sound reason for it. Part of a larger problem for WoW tbh.

Also could've done without the Withered army training. That shit sucked.

[Aucald]

Also could've done without the Withered army training. That shit sucked.

I thought the Withered Army training was fun the first couple of times I did it, but unfortunately, it got old pretty quickly.

[Soon-TM]

What would've been natural for the nightborne afterwards is to stay put and lick their wounds. They had no reason to tie themselves to either faction, even if they wanted to reconnect to the world. I mean, Steamwheedle Cartel, Kirin Tor, all the neutral factions of the world are very much tolerated and used by both Horde and Alliance without necessitating full allegiance. Marrying the nightborne to the Horde was something the devs did for gameplay purpose and they couldn't figure out a sound reason for it. Part of a larger problem for WoW tbh.

NB should have been a neutral race, Panda style. After all, Suramar was liberated thanks to the efforts of both factions, so having the new government commit to a complete stranger such as Sylvanas was more than jarring, despite Tyrande's dumb comments (btw dat gurl should never EVER be allowed to speak in a diplomatic meeting again, but I disgress) and despite Thalyssra having the hawts for Bob.

Lore wise it could be explained by Suramar isolating itself after the events of Legion. Playable NB would be unaffiliated citizens wishing to see the world, with some of them being sympathetic to their nelf cousins, while others might feel more at home with the blood elves.

This would have the additional benefit of deleting the lore abomination that are the void elves. If Blizzard was so keen on giving the Thalassian elf model to the Alliance, they should have bit the bullet and call them high elves, which is what most Ally fans wanted anyway.

[uuuhname]

Legion would've been so much less without it. Each zone was splendid on their own, but only a part of the bigger picture, which was the Legion invasion. With Suramar the zone's own story infused naturally with the main plot, providing a grand final chapter for 7.0. It was all downhill from there, as Broken Shore and even Argus failed to invoke the feeling Suramar gave us.

totally agree. though I will say the prospect of never having to see Illidan again was a bonus.

[Ihavewaffles]

This is a good summary.
Personally i'd like to add that they managed to convey the atmosphere quite well, shining light on the difficult choices that hade to be made.

The only thing that struck me as odd as the time is its apparant isolation from the events of the emerald nightmare, honestly that could have tied in a lot better; it was a strain on the suspension of disbelief that there was so little interaction between Suaramar and Val'sharah.

Azeroth was attacked by the Legion, then they seal themselved into a literal bubble for 10 000 years only to emerge with the Legion once again back to destroy the world, somehow some elune-worshipping hippies in val'sharah were a low priority..