Could the current Sylvanas defeat Knaak's Malfurion?

[darkoms]

Essentially a battle of two Mary Sue

[Aucald]

A mundane axe to the back turned out to be able to nearly defeat Malfurion, so a Sylvanas hopped up on the Jailer's power could probably do so without issue. The calculus changes for a Sylvanas that's not 'roided up, though. I would say Sylvanas without the extra power would be up against a much tougher challenge, though.

[darkoms]

A mundane axe to the back turned out to be able to nearly defeat Malfurion

You mean, just like a bullet in the head of Sylvanas?

[shoc]

A mundane axe to the back turned out to be able to nearly defeat Malfurion, so a Sylvanas hopped up on the Jailer's power could probably do so without issue. The calculus changes for a Sylvanas that's not 'roided up, though. I would say Sylvanas without the extra power would be up against a much tougher challenge, though.

Sylvanas died because some guy just walked up and shot her point blank lol, so I would say they are about even.

[sighy]

No, Knaakfurion is on another level especially with "Don't touch my Tyrande" modifier. Only Me'dan gets that stupidly ludicrous.

[darkoms]

No, Knaakfurion is on another level especially with "Don't touch my Tyrande" modifier. Only Me'dan gets that stupidly ludicrous.

I never understood why people say that Me'dan is OP. Me'dan did unique things, mixing arcane, Light and elements, but he never showed anything on the level of truly powerful characters like Malfurion, Thrall, Sylvanas, and so on. His efforts have several characters friends (including Aegwynn) and he still could not do anything in the battle with Cho'gall and simply brought down the temple to win. Malfurion would simply use lightning ten thousand times. It seems that those who call Me'dan Mary Sue have not even read the comic about him. Another funny claim is that he has a unique background (orc, human, draenei), but me, have you ever heard of centaurs? Who have a moon goddess, a wild god, a guardian of the grove, an elemental lord, and a powerful earth elemental in their ancestors?

[Aucald]

Sylvanas died because some guy just walked up and shot her point blank lol, so I would say they are about even.

You mean, just like a bullet in the head of Sylvanas?

Depowered, sure. You could say victory goes to the one who gets the initiative or the drop on the other.

[darkoms]

Depowered, sure. You could say victory goes to the one who gets the initiative or the drop on the other.

What does depowered mean? Do you think the current Sylvanas will survive a headshot?

[Hellobolis]

i've always had the impression that malfurions power was infinitely scaling, he can always get more power if the situation calls for it. (except possibly if hes in a area with 0 nearby life and 0 nearby emerald dream/night fae/similar)

on the other hand, sylvanas power seems like a very fixed amount, the jailer gave her this much and no more. (has it ever been confirmed she scales directly with the amount of souls she sends to the maw, or is it more a case of the jailer promising to give her a percentage?)

same with ressurections. malfurion can probably ress infinitely by becoming a pseudo-wild god. while sylvanas has 9 valkyr and no more.

[Aucald]

What does depowered mean? Do you think the current Sylvanas will survive a headshot?

Depowered meaning no longer receiving additional power from the Jailer. In her empowered state, I would imagine a headshot likely wouldn't bother her overmuch - during her encounter at Torghast and Oribos she would've been assailed with ordinance of all types, soaking it all until the Jailer withdraws his support and she drops to the ground.

[darkoms]

Depowered meaning no longer receiving additional power from the Jailer. In her empowered state, I would imagine a headshot likely wouldn't bother her overmuch - during her encounter at Torghast and Oribos she would've been assailed with ordinance of all types, soaking it all until the Jailer withdraws his support and she drops to the ground.

During the battle on the Broken Shore, Thrall is attacked by 3 Ships of the Legion at once, and this only forces him to kneel under the pressure of fel rays. It doesn't mean he survives a headshot.

[sighy]

Depowered meaning no longer receiving additional power from the Jailer. In her empowered state, I would imagine a headshot likely wouldn't bother her overmuch - during her encounter at Torghast and Oribos she would've been assailed with ordinance of all types, soaking it all until the Jailer withdraws his support and she drops to the ground.

Sylvanas in the Tyrande fight cinematic has shown ability to turn completely incorporeal/dissolve into smoke and move about, which absolutely is overpowered, when you start actually thinking about it and it's logical implications. (ie. nobody should be able to land a physical hit on her)

[Doffen]

Knaakfurion is the best Malfurion. Man, what a beast.

Sylvanas would be gone before she could say "this world is a..."

[sighy]

I never understood why people say that Me'dan is OP. Me'dan did unique things, mixing arcane, Light and elements, but he never showed anything on the level of truly powerful characters like Malfurion, Thrall, Sylvanas, and so on. His efforts have several characters friends (including Aegwynn) and he still could not do anything in the battle with Cho'gall and simply brought down the temple to win. Malfurion would simply use lightning ten thousand times. It seems that those who call Me'dan Mary Sue have not even read the comic about him. Another funny claim is that he has a unique background (orc, human, draenei), but me, have you ever heard of centaurs? Who have a moon goddess, a wild god, a guardian of the grove, an elemental lord, and a powerful earth elemental in their ancestors?

Me'dan was showered in numerous monumental lorebreaking contrivances. (ie. the child, who mastered all the classes, inherited powers of the Guardian of Tirisfall and had a diverse cast of opposing mutually hostile characters band around him, because he is just that awesome there surely are people, who would be willing to discuss that one more in depth)

Thrall and MAlf did have their cringeworthy savior of the world phases, but Thrall was only really guilty of it in Cataclysm, when he became the substitute Earth Warder...
Regarding Sylvanas... we always knew she was more than just a Banshee, but the problem with shady characters like that, who never show their full hand is that power scaling them is really difficult. Even before you get to Jailer empowerments, where the only things we can 100% nail on him are the bondage arrows and Sadfang nuke.

I agree that Centaur origins are wierd.

[darkoms]

Sylvanas in the Tyrande fight cinematic has shown ability to turn completely incorporeal/dissolve into smoke and move about, which absolutely is overpowered, when you start actually thinking about it and it's logical implications. (ie. nobody should be able to land a physical hit on her)

Sylvanas has always been able to do this. The fact that she began to demonstrate this only recently does not mean that this is some kind of OP ability

[Powerogue]

You say current Sylvanas, depowered of any extra buffs by the Jailer, but presumably still at banshee queen level.

...and actually we haven't seen Malfurion in a while is he doing OK?

Aw who am I kidding, he'll sleep it off.

So we've got a depowered banshee against an unconscious night elf druid. Truly a battle of the ages.

[Aucald]

During the battle on the Broken Shore, Thrall is attacked by 3 Ships of the Legion at once, and this only forces him to kneel under the pressure of fel rays. It doesn't mean he survives a headshot.

Unsure what the Thrall example has to do with Sylvanas. But empowered by the Jailer, it may well be that Sylvanas' ability to regenerate from wounds, or simply to no-sell them, is simply greater than the trauma caused by a headshot.

Sylvanas in the Tyrande fight cinematic has shown ability to turn completely incorporeal/dissolve into smoke and move about, which absolutely is overpowered, when you start actually thinking about it and it's logical implications. (ie. nobody should be able to land a physical hit on her)

That ability is probably part and parcel of her empowerment, and it is indeed overpowered relative to the other faction leaders. So empowered, she would be (and proved to be) very difficult to dispatch.

[Biomega]

As always, there's never any consistency about these things and writers will just throw shit around willy-nilly without much regard for adherence to any sort of "power level".

You could try and make sense of two subjective depictions vis-a-vis each other, but there's probably so many unknowns in that it wouldn't solve anything. I.e., unless you have two perfectly scripted fights for each character that you could simply transpose onto each other, you wouldn't really get anywhere because there'd always come a moment where you wouldn't know WHAT the respective character would do, and how it would affect the other.

So yeah, who the fuck knows.

[darkoms]

Unsure what the Thrall example has to do with Sylvanas. But empowered by the Jailer, it may well be that Sylvanas' ability to regenerate from wounds, or simply to no-sell them, is simply greater than the trauma caused by a headshot.



That ability is probably part and parcel of her empowerment, and it is indeed overpowered relative to the other faction leaders. So empowered, she would be (and proved to be) very difficult to dispatch.

I say that you do not need to give an example of combat mechanics from the game, this does not mean stability in the lore, otherwise Thrall is, according to your logic, invulnerable. I also doubt that incorporeality will protect against magical attacks

[Aucald]

I say that you do not need to give an example of combat mechanics from the game, this does not mean stability in the lore, otherwise Thrall is, according to your logic, invulnerable. I also doubt that incorporeality will protect against magical attacks

One needs to establish some form of context or functional rule-set for comparison, and combat mechanics from the game are at least observable unlike the nebulous and undefined context of "lore." Would "lore" be the novels and short stories, and not anything from the game (which is itself canon)? Is it confined solely to cutscenes and cinematics? You'd need to lay down some form of quasi-objective criteria here as opposed to moving goalposts.

Thrall isn't invulnerable, as shown both in the written material and in-game, but he's definitely tough and has an endurance seemingly enhanced by his Shamanic power. A "headshot" in the form of a bullet to the brainpan is also not really a magical attack, and incorporeality would definitely go far toward protecting against it.