So it turns out the devs were behind these changes all along

[Overlordd]

So if you think that these were some PR bullshit. They aren't. The devs are behind these changes, and their opinion = law.

https://twitter.com/ScarizardPlays/s...28884868489217

please read. been seeing a lot of (frankly upsetting) comments from people who follow me / ‘support devs’ about some of the updates to in-game content being a ‘smokescreen for distract from bigger issues’ when really… it’s being led from within, by people who care, a Lot

https://twitter.com/valentine_irl/st...19920815017986

As a developer on the WoW team, when I see people say “no one was asking for this,” that feels odd to me, because yes, someone did, we as devs asked for it. If you support the devs of games, please be aware that we also have opinions on inclusion in our games. -

https://twitter.com/HamletEJ/status/...601093120?s=20

I don't want to (counterproductively) quote them, but someone also pointed out today that our whole twitter life lately has been wanting to avoid the attention of wow twitter (even more so than usual), which conflicts with wanting to talk about any of this

https://twitter.com/HamletEJ/status/...690003482?s=20

Yeah I mean I avoid even talking about it here, but it has been just uncomfortable lately seeing it from people who I would generally expect to support pro-inclusivity changes

https://twitter.com/kenandstuff/stat...684021255?s=21

I have to imagine many wow devs feel this way as well. - @kenandstuff, Senior Game Designer (Encounters), World of Warcraft, responding to the above tweet

https://twitter.com/kenandstuff/stat...119283202?s=20

The way I see it is that "they" are two completely different groups of people. "They" in charge of company wide policy changes are not the "they" in charge of wow content changes. I agree there needs to be company changes, but that doesn't mean there can't be game changes

https://twitter.com/kenandstuff/stat...009864217?s=20

I can say with certainty that these changes did not come from requests from the c-suite, these changes came from demands from wow devs

https://twitter.com/trulyaliem/statu...072785411?s=20

imagine a world in which everyone agreed that the trash should be taken out but they get upset when you clean up the trash's residue afterwards. if you're going to clean up shit, get the lysol and disinfect. otherwise it still stinks. really don't understand people sometimes. -

https://twitter.com/trulyaliem/statu...911025667?s=20

if it were intended as a smokescreen it would have been promoted. you only know this exists because someone went datamining. getting upset with team 2 because we have corporate overlords who won't listen to our v. reasonable collective demands is... a choice one could make, ok.

Not a current employee but a former one

https://twitter.com/EmberFirehair/st...41365874593794

I love this. Honestly, I love ALL the changes. Many of them I remember writing down in a list of "if I could just change things that bugged me and made feel excluded/creeped out/gross over the years, it would be these." BUT I SUPER LOVE when it's adjusted to just make it equal.

Let's be honest. This game has been taken hostage by a political, progressive cult on twitter. They do not care about criticism. Countless amount of people got blocked that merely stating disagreeing doesn't mean you don't support them.

Another word they throw around is the word inclusivity.
Which means that these changes were made by minority devs. Mostly trans individuals or other LGBTQ+ people and if you don't support them and shut up about their opinion, you're practically a nazi.

https://twitter.com/Gaiazelle/status...17813153894401

Been seeing a lot of extremely lukewarm takes lately. If you want to support employees, shitting on initiatives they started (driven by many minority devs as well) to make the game they work on more inclusive is not a good way to do that.

Does anyone know the definition of CRONYISM?

CRONYISM:

Cronyism is the practice of partiality in awarding jobs and other advantages to friends or trusted colleagues, especially in politics and between politicians and supportive organizations. For instance, this includes appointing "cronies" to positions of authority, regardless of their qualifications; this is in contrast to meritocracy, in which appointments are made purely on qualification.

Cronyism exists when the appointer and the beneficiary (such as an appointee) are in social or business contact. Often, the appointer needs support in their own proposal, job or position of authority, and for this reason the appointer appoints individuals who will not try to weaken their proposals, vote against issues, or express views contrary to those of the appointer.

Politically, "cronyism" is derogatorily used to imply buying and selling favors, such as: votes in legislative bodies, as doing favors to organizations, giving desirable ambassadorships to exotic places, etc. Whereas cronyism refers to partiality to a partner or friend, nepotism is the granting of favour to relatives.

This game is not going to survive this cult taking World of Warcraft hostage.

You can argue "a bloo bloo are you such a snowflake that you get upset about women being turned into fruit, or having a couple of emotes removed?"

But really, who is the one actually crying and trying to change 15 year old content having a BLOO BLOO over that? Why not let it stay up ya snowflake?

[Xeenith]

it does seem like it's all coming out of nowhere at the same time, just when they need a PR boost.coincidence ?
it's like they kept those sort of changes "for a bad day" and boy are they having bad days ^^
mind you I don't care about the justice drama going around, I don't even play M+ or raids. I just care about the story and the little there is to do for a "filthy casual" like me, and I'm bored out of my mind of all the grey from torghast/maw. I had plenty more fun in the game with Legion.
I still have some gold for a couple tokens, so I'll come see the changes but probably not before 9.2, simple cosmetics won't change the boring daily life in wow.

[Orby]

Its their game at the end of the day... as costumers and consumers we have the option to either go somewhere else or deal with it... YOU are not going to change their minds. With that said, do I think some of these changes are silly? Yes. But I also quit back in January and am not planning on returning.

Also take into consideration peoples taste, people are wired differently, we are not robots, just because you are not offended or it doesn't affect you doesn't mean it doesn't affect others.

[TriHard]

Christ, it's all people with pronouns in their bios and people wonder why the game is in such a shit state.
Maybe hire actual professionals outside of Cali instead of all these Twitter activists if you want to make a good product, clearly they don't know what the fuck they're doing as this was never a problem in the past until they hired way too many back a few years ago.

Yikes dude, the devs need to sit down, make a good fucking product and get off Twitter. Should be company policy for devs not to have public twitter accounts.
Pathetic.

[Nehezbegar]

The winds of change is in full, not only WoW but any other game made by corpo or bigger company. Virtue signaling is a thing now, despite behind the courtain its all the same or worst.

Enjoy while You can because in future it will be even worst and nothing can stop that, the rubicon has been passed long time ago.

[Overlordd]

Its their game at the end of the day... as costumers and consumers we have the option to either go somewhere else or deal with it... YOU are not going to change their minds. With that said, do I think some of these changes are silly? Yes. But I also quit back in January and am not planning on returning.

Also take into consideration peoples taste, people are wired differently, we are not robots, just because you are not offended or it doesn't affect you doesn't mean it doesn't affect others.

It's not their fucking game. They weren't there when the game was succesfull. They only joined later and are trying their best to erase everything and burn it into the ground.

It's not THEIR GAME, when they go against their managers calling them evil corpo lords when they got caught changing shit under the radar.

- - - Updated - - -

it does seem like it's all coming out of nowhere at the same time, just when they need a PR boost.coincidence ?
it's like they kept those sort of changes "for a bad day" and boy are they having bad days ^^
mind you I don't care about the justice drama going around, I don't even play M+ or raids. I just care about the story and the little there is to do for a "filthy casual" like me, and I'm bored out of my mind of all the grey from torghast/maw. I had plenty more fun in the game with Legion.
I still have some gold for a couple tokens, so I'll come see the changes but probably not before 9.2, simple cosmetics won't change the boring daily life in wow.

They practically admitted on changing this stuff "under the radar".

[Orby]

It's not their fucking game. They weren't there when the game was succesfull. They only joined later and are trying their best to erase everything and burn it into the ground.

It's not THEIR GAME, when they go against their managers calling them evil corpo lords when they got caught changing shit under the radar.

Well most of the originators that created the game got called out for being ass grabbers and man bros so either way we all lose. So either you prefer a game made by rapists, or the current team, who make a shit game who are not... awkward scale to measure that I choose he middle man and I quit

So it may not be their games originally but its their game now so once again either deal with it or go somewhere else... there are many games out there.

[Nyel]

So if you think that these were some PR bullshit. They aren't. The devs are behind these changes, and their opinion = law.

https://twitter.com/ScarizardPlays/s...28884868489217



https://twitter.com/valentine_irl/st...19920815017986



https://twitter.com/HamletEJ/status/...601093120?s=20



https://twitter.com/HamletEJ/status/...690003482?s=20



https://twitter.com/kenandstuff/stat...684021255?s=21



https://twitter.com/kenandstuff/stat...119283202?s=20



https://twitter.com/kenandstuff/stat...009864217?s=20



https://twitter.com/trulyaliem/statu...072785411?s=20



https://twitter.com/trulyaliem/statu...911025667?s=20



Not a current employee but a former one

https://twitter.com/EmberFirehair/st...41365874593794



Let's be honest. This game has been taken hostage by a political, progressive cult on twitter. They do not care about criticism. Countless amount of people got blocked that merely stating disagreeing doesn't mean you don't support them.

Another word they throw around is the word inclusivity.
Which means that these changes were made by minority devs. Mostly trans individuals or other LGBTQ+ people and if you don't support them and shut up about their opinion, you're practically a nazi.

https://twitter.com/Gaiazelle/status...17813153894401



Does anyone know the definition of CRYONISM?

CRONYISM:



This game is not going to survive this cult taking World of Warcraft hostage.

You can argue "a bloo bloo are you such a snowflake that you get upset about women being turned into fruit, or having a couple of emotes removed?"

But really, who is the one actually crying and trying to change 15 year old content having a BLOO BLOO over that? Why not let it stay up ya snowflake?

This all makes it worse because I don't want such whiny and overly sensitive devs to work on a game I love, in parts because of its many references and humor. People that get offended by some of the very tame /flirt or /joke lines have serious issues which should not be projected onto the game.

- - - Updated - - -

Christ, it's all people with pronouns in their bios and people wonder why the game is in such a shit state.
Maybe hire actual professionals outside of Cali instead of all these Twitter activists if you want to make a good product, clearly they don't know what the fuck they're doing as this was never a problem in the past until they hired way too many back a few years ago.

Yikes dude, the devs need to sit down, make a good fucking product and get off Twitter. Should be company policy for devs not to have public twitter accounts.
Pathetic.

As sad as this is, it's 100% true. These over the top woke people, slowly but steadily, ruin everything they touch.

[Overlordd]

Well most of the originators that created the game got called out for being ass grabbers and man bros so either way we all lose. So either you prefer a game made by rapists, or the current team, who make a shit game who are not... awkward scale to measure that I choose he middle man and I quit

That's not true at all. Only Afrasiabi was the bad rotten apple. The other ones made jokes like the Cosby suit and got cancelled for it.

Morhaime, Metzen, Greg Street, they never sexually assaulted someone. And two of those left the brand 10 years ago.

[bluesock]

Hopefully, this finally wakes people up and stop defending "the devs" for all the shitty decisions they are making. "The devs" are just as much part of the problem as the management is. All of Blizzard is rotten from top to bottom.

[Gaidax]

Their game, their rules.

I think that some of the changes are unnecessary and even silly, but the bottom line - what I want from WoW is good raiding gameplay without too many loops and hoops on the way there, more character customization and good story(telling).

I do think the whole woman turned into fruit thing was pretty much dumb, but ultimately I don't play WoW for that - heck I was not even aware that painting existed. As long as they deliver a good game, I don't mind their virtue signaling crusade.


Besides, if I'd want scantly dressed women on my screen, I'd just fire up Twitch - no shortage of "fruits" there. I don't really need it in WoW as well, it's not what this is about.

[Coolface330]

"imagine a world in which everyone agreed that the trash should be taken out but they get upset when you clean up the trash's residue afterwards. if you're going to clean up shit, get the lysol and disinfect. otherwise it still stinks. really don't understand people sometimes. -"

Ignoring the tiny molecules of garbage is part of society's ignorance.

Smells are the modern equivalant of fantasy "Auras". Everything exhibits a 'smell', or an aura of tiny molecules that exhibit your scent. Smell and taste are practically the same. You smell shit all day? You might as well be tasting shit.

Most people don't talk about smells because they like how stupid people act guilty. The source of smells can paint pictures of evidence. Food exhibits aura of smells. You walk by a resturaunt, you get covered in an 'aura' of smell. You walk a mile away. And now your clothes smell. As if those tiny molecules dug deep into your clothes and you're still tasting it.

But it's not just smell they fuck up. Sight has touch like properties. Video games joke "they know if you see them." but what about us? "I feel like someone is watching me." They claim as if they felt the touch of sight upon them.

I even go back to looking at sound, in its most primal form, you drop an object, it exhibits a shockwave, your ears pick up that shockwave, and it translates into sound. Basic. To advanced, Music and communication to your ears.

As a Lactose Intolerant, obsessing about smell, and wondering why I'm getting sick for smelling pizza when I never even took a bite. People don't wanna go through that level. They rather tell someone its all in their head, feeling sick from smelling something...Then actually setting up an enviroment where the smell is under complete control.

[Orby]

That's not true at all. Only Afrasiabi was the bad rotten apple. The other ones made jokes like the Cosby suit and got cancelled for it.

Morhaime, Metzen, Greg Street, they never sexually assaulted someone. And two of those left the brand 10 years ago.

You are right, but thats the way it is... I think the devs just see that old guard as toxic and want to grow past that. It sucks because that old guard gave us a great game, but that's the sad thing about it. I cannot really disagree with the changes if those that are wronged by the events of what's happened want them changed, who am I to say otherwise. I wasnt the one affected.

I do think said changes are dumb but thats all I can really say :P

[Overlordd]

Their game, their rules.

You mean their game they hijacked, their rules. They had no participation in World of Warcraft whatsoever back when it was popular. They can only hijack things and subvert them. They lack any creativity and hope they can ride out the branches name on the work and foundation of the guys that actually created it.

[TickTickTick]

Most of the tweets are so delusional and detached from reality that I think I'll just never return to this game if these particular devs are behind the game's production.

Especially this:

imagine a world in which everyone agreed that the trash should be taken out but they get upset when you clean up the trash's residue afterwards. if you're going to clean up shit, get the lysol and disinfect. otherwise it still stinks. really don't understand people sometimes. -

is like, I don't know.

I find myself as a centrist slightly leaning towards left, and this is exactly why I can't indentify myself completely with the left - due to extremism like this. Different side of the fence, but this same aggressiveness, "my way is the only right one", "if you don't agree with me you're a monster".

Interesting how such an extreme shift in their ideology changed overnight. Such changes, to seem genuine, should be spread out over time and not turn from one extreme to another in a blind of an eye. And one more thing: you must be... silly... to believe these changed were always wanted by the devs, but they just weren't allowed to implement them. Yes I'm sure those poor devs always wanted to add a male sexy demon or ban the word consort, but the evil company blizzard forbode it.

[Dhrizzle]

WoW "fans" : Boo! These changes are just corporate PR and not a sign of any internal changes that will benefit the staff.

WoW devs : Actually these changes are made by request of the staff as part of cleaning up Blizzard's culture.

WoW "fans" : Well.... boo anyway!

[DarkAmbient]

This will be locked because it should have gone in the other thread(s).

But yeah. These people are the new puritans.

[Gaidax]

You mean their game they hijacked, their rules. They had no participation in World of Warcraft whatsoever back when it was popular. They can only hijack things and subvert them. They lack any creativity and hope they can ride out the branches name on the work and foundation of the guys that actually created it.

It was always their game.

"Hijacked"? Times change, bub. It's not 2004 anymore. Game evolves constantly and yes it includes getting on with the times. It's same thing like 2009 WoW was not 2004 WoW and 2016 WoW was not 2009 WoW.

Big whoop, I could not care less about them changing some painting or renaming some NPCs or removing the "bitch" thing or removing some shitty emotes no rational person (ab)uses anyway.

That is not the WoW apocalypse and not "hijacking". People need to chill the fuck down.


And yes, I for sure meme about this on discord too, because this overzealous "witch hunt" it is also silly on Blizzard part and makes great meme of the day material. But ultimately? I don't really care, it's not what I want of WoW.

[Dhrizzle]

You mean their game they hijacked, their rules. They had no participation in World of Warcraft whatsoever back when it was popular. They can only hijack things and subvert them. They lack any creativity and hope they can ride out the branches name on the work and foundation of the guys that actually created it.

They didn't hijack anything, they were hired and trained by older Blizzard staff who then went on to retire. On top of that let's not forget that it was the "old guard" who started this process by doing stuff like covering Sylvanas's midriff and other terrible crimes.

[Shadowferal]

Where have these developers been for the past 17 years?