Who should be the next Warmonger?

[tromage2]

Turalyon (Alliance) and the army of light should be the next warmongers that want to enforce and enslave all under the Naruu.

[Ardenaso]

I don't know why you think they'd still be Horde when the Horde is not the Argent Crusade. They are even tagged as Neutral in-game-

I think otherwise since Sylvanas still has jurisdiction over Koltira when he is part of the Ebon Blade

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People who denounced Sylvanas fundamentally couldn't be Forsaken, because the Forsaken always have been Sylvanas's followers specifically. That's like saying Tirion was a member of the Defias Brotherhood, because he was human.



Attacking Argents of all people would be absolutely asinine, from Turalyon's position, because of how well regarded by everyone they are. If anything Turalyon would want to get some of that Scarlet business, because they're the faction most ideologically compatible, with AotL.

more like Tirion is still part of the Alliance of Lordaeron, but not part of the Grand Alliance

not attacking directly or slaughering them; more like Turalyon being outraged while they did nothing while their own countrymen were literally being put in Forsaken Auschwitz; or that they did nothing in the entirety of the Fourth War (like finding survivors in Teldrassil at least, Tyr's Hand is almost like directly adjacent to Teldrassil) and then forcefully occupying Hearthglen and Tyr's Hand to force his control to the Argents

but considering that Turalyon could have been part or complicit in the Tyr's Hand Peasant Massacre, I think he could do more than that^

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You're misfiring with your rant. The question wasn't about whether or not the Forsaken were in the right, but rather how they'd feel about joining the Alliance in their current situation. If the Argents bend the knee to Turalyon I feel Judkins and Leonid would rather choose Calia's Forsaken.

perhaps I should make a separate thread on why I think the Argent Lordaeronians are better off being Horde and be independent from Turalyon's rule

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on topic: yes I think it should be Turalyon and Danath, but not attacking the Horde in Eastern Kingdoms for the lulz, but for retribution; perhaps give them the Daelin Proudmoore treatment

[sighy]

more like Tirion is still part of the Alliance of Lordaeron, but not part of the Grand Alliance

not attacking directly or slaughering them; more like Turalyon being outraged while they did nothing while their own countrymen were literally being put in Forsaken Auschwitz; or that they did nothing in the entirety of the Fourth War (like finding survivors in Teldrassil at least, Tyr's Hand is almost like directly adjacent to Teldrassil) and then forcefully occupying Hearthglen and Tyr's Hand to force his control to the Argents

but considering that Turalyon could have been part or complicit in the Tyr's Hand Peasant Massacre, I think he could do more than that^[/COLOR]

perhaps I should make a separate thread on why I think the Argent Lordaeronians are better off being Horde and be independent from Turalyon's rule

If we wanna be technical the Aliance of Lordaeon fell apart to bickering not too long after the second war and Tirion got kicked out of the Silver Hand, because he had shown compassion and mercy to Etrigg. Plus Argents left Scarlet Crusade, because they thought that they were too militant and extreme. So Turalyon can only really hurt his own political position by messing with them. (Not to mention that attacking the Forsaken would have been absolutely suicidal given their geographical disposition)

[BaumanKing]

And then it ends with Turalyon coming out of his haze and finally seeing reason/the truth... and is forced to put Alleria out of her misery for succumbing to the shadow's whispers.

If I'm not confusing anything, Danuser actually liked the series finale of Game of Thrones, so I can see a similar ending with Turalyon reluctantly killing his crazy wife or something like that. Or vice versa, cause I heard that some people thought the GoT finale was sexist.

[sighy]

If I'm not confusing anything, Danuser actually liked the series finale of Game of Thrones, so I can see a similar ending with Turalyon reluctantly killing his crazy wife or something like that. Or vice versa, cause I heard that some people thought the GoT finale was sexist.

Biggest problem with GoT finale was that it tried to tell GRRM book worth of stuff, in the span of 3 feature length episodes so it felt like an extreme TLDR. And i believe there was a vision Aleria had relating to that, but i believe Arathor died there.

[Zuben]

perhaps I should make a separate thread on why I think the Argent Lordaeronians are better off being Horde and be independent from Turalyon's rule

Perhaps you should, because if northern EK does become a hotbed for conflict in the near future the Argents wouldn't be able to sit it out.

on topic: yes I think it should be Turalyon and Danath, but not attacking the Horde in Eastern Kingdoms for the lulz, but for retribution; perhaps give them the Daelin Proudmoore treatment

Dealin Proudmoore came off as a blind fool in a time where Jaina's Theramore was peacefully trading with Orgrimmar. Turalyon and Danath would have more legitimacy as the Fourth War just happened and with too minor repercussions to the Horde, but I still feel they'd need something more to go with their campaign.

[Varodoc]

Turalyon killing Alleria is nonsense, it shall never happen. Anyone killing Alleria shall never happen honestly. If Alleria dies she might simply take her own life like a true legend and bring everyone down along with her (like in a massive Void explosion).

Turalyon was turned into a literal doormat by Alleria, he is not her equal.

Is this the guy who according to MMO-CHAMPION should """"kill"""" Alleria? How pathetic





Why exactly are people here even talking about "killing Alleria" when Azshara and Sylvanas somehow got away with everything they did, Blizzard loves their elven women.

Blizzard only kills fat women like Ashvane. Hm, curious, in light of the recent lawsuit

[Viconia]

Turalyon killing Alleria is nonsense, it shall never happen. Anyone killing Alleria shall never happen honestly. If Alleria dies she might simply take her own life like a true legend and bring everyone down along with her (like in a massive Void explosion).

Turalyon was turned into a literal doormat by Alleria, he is not her equal.

Is this the guy who according to MMO-CHAMPION should """"kill"""" Alleria? How pathetic


https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/scree...mal/897711.jpg

This is the umpteenth time you've brought up the nightmare visions from N'zoth's patch. They're just that, visions shown by a manipulating Old God. You're being susceptible to his influence like any Twilight's Hammer goon. The same ones that always go "This isn't what was promised to meeeee" when we defeat them.

[Varodoc]

This is the umpteenth time you've brought up the nightmare visions from N'zoth's patch. They're just that, visions shown by a manipulating Old God. You're being susceptible to his influence like any Twilight's Hammer goon. The same ones that always go "This isn't what was promised to meeeee" when we defeat them.

And I'll keep bringing them up because they're a Canonical representation of what would happen if Alleria were to succumb to the whispers (she would take control of the entire Alliance, destroy Stormwind, summon an army of Void creatures, and slaughter or corrupt anyone in her way). The Ren'dorei would reign unopposed until the arrival of the plot-armoured PC. Whether you like it or not

And the idea that Turalyon, who couldn't even scratch a severely exhausted and weakened Illidan, is going to do anything to Alleria is foolish.

[Viconia]

And I'll keep bringing them up because they're a Canonical representation of what would happen if Alleria were to succumb to the whispers (she would take control of the entire Alliance, destroy Stormwind, summon an army of Void creatures, and slaughter or corrupt anyone in her way). The Ren'dorei would reign unopposed until the arrival of the plot-armoured PC. Whether you like it or not

And the idea that Turalyon, who couldn't even scratch a severely exhausted and weakened Illidan, is going to do anything to Alleria is foolish.

It has nothing to do with how I feel about it. They're canonically Old God designed visions, everything in them meant to crush our spirits. Take Orgrimmar, which had exactly the same treatment as Stormwind, but without the ren'dorei. Might of the Void witnessed in these visions wasn't Alleria's power, but literally N'Zoth's fanfiction on what he'd do to our cities if we failed to stop him.

I will give you that Turalyon's cool sword looked weak af when Illidan stopped it from its edge with his bare hand, but honestly that could be attributed more to Blizzard's penchant for rule of cool. If the writers were asked about it in an AMA they'd just conjure some on-the-spot bs like they always do, e.g. "Illidan was encased in fel-coating that protected his skin". You know they do that.

[Varodoc]

It has nothing to do with how I feel about it. They're canonically Old God designed visions, everything in them meant to crush our spirits. Take Orgrimmar, which had exactly the same treatment as Stormwind, but without the ren'dorei. Might of the Void witnessed in these visions wasn't Alleria's power, but literally N'Zoth's fanfiction on what he'd do to our cities if we failed to stop him.

I will give you that Turalyon's cool sword looked weak af when Illidan stopped it from its edge with his bare hand, but honestly that could be attributed more to Blizzard's penchant for rule of cool. If the writers were asked about it in an AMA they'd just conjure some on-the-spot bs like they always do, e.g. "Illidan was encased in fel-coating that protected his skin". You know they do that.

Okay, then if Alleria were to succumb to the whispers, she wouldn't bring great disaster and thus any pre-conceived criticism against the Ren'dorei being "dangerous ticking bombs" is false. Since the only scenario where they are indeed shown as dangerous is one engineered by N'Zoth.

Either way the haters don't win.

It's either Alleria and the Ren'dorei succumb and blow up everything, or they don't blow up everything and thus there's no reason to be afraid of them.

Also Alleria isn't just an elf anymore. She's an elf who absorbed the power of a Void Demi-God and a Dark Naaru. A simple sword isn't killing her ever. Remember Velen, one of the most powerful immortals in the Cosmos? He had to sacrifice himself just to cleanse and stop a Dark Naaru. Alleria has absorbed one of those creatures. No mortal is killing her at all.

And you might say "well but the PC is a mortal and they killed her", it was just a vision remember

[geco]

Why exactly are people here even talking about "killing Alleria" when Azshara and Sylvanas somehow got away with everything they did, Blizzard loves their elven women.

Blizzard only kills fat women like Ashvane. Hm, curious, in light of the recent lawsuit

Cordana and Sira say Hello.
And they almost didn't kill Maiev to put Jarold on.

[Varodoc]

Cordana and Sira say Hello.
And they almost didn't kill Maiev to put Jarold on.

Yeah but notice the common denominator of all these characters, they're Night elves. Alleria isn't one so she should be safe from the wrath of the writers

[Viconia]

Okay, then if Alleria were to succumb to the whispers, she wouldn't bring great disaster and thus any pre-conceived criticism against the Ren'dorei being "dangerous ticking bombs" is false. Since the only scenario where they are indeed shown as dangerous is one engineered by N'Zoth.

Either way the haters don't win.

It's either Alleria and the Ren'dorei succumb and blow up everything, or they don't blow up everything and thus there's no reason to be afraid of them.

No, this merely dilutes the level of their threat. They can still become mad and do harm with the power they do possess. They are especially harmful to Light-based founts like the Sunwell, because apparently those have zero defense against the energies of their cosmic opponent. Note that that doesn't imply Light is weak against Void, but only that founts of power based on Light like the Sunwell don't have an immune system to protect them.

Also Alleria isn't just an elf anymore. She's an elf who absorbed the power of a Void Demi-God and a Dark Naaru. A simple sword isn't killing her ever. Remember Velen, one of the most powerful immortals in the Cosmos? He had to sacrifice himself just to cleanse and stop a Dark Naaru. Alleria has absorbed one of those creatures. No mortal is killing her at all.

And you might say "well but the PC is a mortal and they killed her", it was just a vision remember

As you say, there is no real evidence of mortal damage harming Alleria. Likewise there's no evidence she can take such a beating. Her condition is unprecedented, so we don't have anything establishing what can or can't harm her. What we do know is that the naaru are very much susceptible to all sorts of damage. And to take a Doylist perspective on it, we know Alleria will go down if Blizzard ever makes her a raidboss. Not that I particularly want that to happen.

Velen is bitch, though. I haven't seen much of anything to warrant such praise for him.

[geco]

Yeah but notice the common denominator of all these characters, they're Night elves. Alleria isn't one so she should be safe from the wrath of the writers

Or so if I believe it.
Human saints cannot die .. to prevent the Alliance from being interesting.

[Varodoc]

No, this merely dilutes the level of their threat. They can still become mad and do harm with the power they do possess. They are especially harmful to Light-based founts like the Sunwell, because apparently those have zero defense against the energies of their cosmic opponent. Note that that doesn't imply Light is weak against Void, but only that founts of power based on Light like the Sunwell don't have an immune system to protect them.

Dialogue between the Ren'dorei and the Brother in the Cathedral of Light implies that the building is also permeating with Light energies, not too differently from the chapel in the Plaguelands. The Vision of N'Zoth is accurate in its portrayal of what would happen if Alleria succumbed in Stormwind. The Cathedral of Light, like the Sunwell, is a sanctuary of the Light and thus would serve as a gateway for the Void forces (hence why in the Vision Alleria and the Portal to Ny'alotha reside inside the Cathedral, and that's the source of the corruption).

The Vision might have been engineered by N'Zoth but it still offers us a relatively accurate representation of what would happen if the Ren'dorei succumbed to the whispers. Again, the Dark Naaru in Mac'aree was able to completely corrupt the city to the point that not even the Legion dared go near it. Alleria absorbed that Dark Naaru. She can absolutely destroy Stormwind if she unleashed her power. We can conclude this based on what the Dark Naaru did in Mac'aree and what the Dark Star was about to do in Karabor (annihilate all the draenei there).

Just because it's a vision doesn't mean we have to dismiss it, just like we don't dismiss WoD showing us what would happen if the orcs never drank the Demon blood, even though it's an alternate reality.

Velen is bitch, though. I haven't seen much of anything to warrant such praise for him.

Velen doesn't do anything but we know that he is extremely powerful, since he is an immortal who lived for 25000 years old, was the original leader of the Eredar (so he's got to be a very powerful Arcane user, to lead a species of Arcane users that fascinated even Sargeras), and is one of the strongest champions of the Light and is blessed by the Naaru. He's amongst the strongest leaders of the Alliance.

And yet even Velen could do nothing against the Dark Star, his only option was giving his life to purify the Dark Naaru. Alleria has absorbed an entity just like the Dark Star, I'll let you do the math.

[BaumanKing]

Is this the guy who according to MMO-CHAMPION should """"kill"""" Alleria? How pathetic

There is also a vision in an audio drama in which Turalyon and Arator kill Alleria. It's funny to see you bash your precious Alleria's husband. If he is a pathetic loser, does that mean that she is also a pathetic loser cause she loves him?

[Varodoc]

There is also a vision in an audio drama in which Turalyon and Arator kill Alleria. It's funny to see you bash your precious Alleria's husband. If he is a pathetic loser, does that mean that she is also a pathetic loser cause she loves him?

A Thousand Years of War was written by Robert Brooks, who left Blizzard on September 2021 during the ongoing lawsuit. Thus its canonicity is dubious.

It's funny to see you bash your precious Alleria's husband. If he is a pathetic loser, does that mean that she is also a pathetic loser cause she loves him?

I don't see Turalyon as "Alleria's husband" I see him as "Turalyon". Him being a pathetic loser (which he is, proof of this is in the Xe'ra cinematic) has no impact on Alleria.

And if Turalyon's main quality is being Alleria's husband, then he is indeed pathetic. Hence why he was turned into a literal doormat.

[Aucald]

And yet even Velen could do nothing against the Dark Star, his only option was giving his life to purify the Dark Naaru. Alleria has absorbed an entity just like the Dark Star, I'll let you do the math.

We actually don't know if Velen could've done anything offensively vs. the Dark Star - he *chose* to sacrifice himself in order to redeem K'ara, reverting her back into her Light Naaru form. The Naaru haven't been shown to be exceptionally durable, after all; they have potent offensive powers but definitely fall into the mold of glass cannons, more or less. Similarly, you're basing a lot of decidedly deceitful and deceptive visions shown by N'Zoth - Turalyon is pretty far from pathetic even compared to Alleria, and Alleria herself entrusted him with the solemn duty of destroying her if she ever fell to the Void's madness. This strongly implies that Alleria believes Turalyon is both up to the task and capable of stopping her should it be required.

[Varodoc]

We actually don't know if Velen could've done anything offensively vs. the Dark Star - he *chose* to sacrifice himself in order to redeem K'ara, reverting her back into her Light Naaru form. The Naaru haven't been shown to be exceptionally durable, after all; they have potent offensive powers but definitely fall into the mold of glass cannons, more or less. Similarly, you're basing a lot of decidedly deceitful and deceptive visions shown by N'Zoth - Turalyon is pretty far from pathetic even compared to Alleria, and Alleria herself entrusted him with the solemn duty of destroying her if she ever fell to the Void's madness. This strongly implies that Alleria believes Turalyon is both up to the task and capable of stopping her should it be required.

In an earlier quest we see what happens if the Dark Star is unleashed:



As we see in this vision, Velen was too weak to hold back the unleashed Dark Star and was overwhelmed. Velen himself admits that he couldn't hold back the Dark Star. His only option was to purify and redeem the Dark Star so that it couldn't unleash its powers, if it did, then the Draenei would have been exterminated.

In Legion we see that even the Burning Legion did not dare come close to Mac'aree, which was taken over by a Dark Naaru. Kil'jaeden and Archimonde, like Velen, were scared of that power. Kil'jaeden had the Seat of the Triumvirate sealed to contain L'ura (back when she was still a Light Naaru), instead of trying to destroy her.

Turalyon is pretty far from pathetic even compared to Alleria,

Turalyon couldn't scratch Illidan and had his sword blocked by Illidan with one hand after Xe'ra mentally and physically tortured him.

and Alleria herself entrusted him with the solemn duty of destroying her if she ever fell to the Void's madness. This strongly implies that Alleria believes Turalyon is both up to the task and capable of stopping her should it be required.

Is this from the audio drama? If so the writer of the audio drama was fired recently. Its canonicity is dubious.