Page 18 of 30 FirstFirst ...
8
16
17
18
19
20
28
... LastLast
  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Of course. But that doesn't need to descend into abuse, sabotaging of other's work, sexual harassment or any of the other things the lawsuit is about. Where conflicts interfere with projects there needs to be something in place where employees can state their issues without fear of being 1) moved to another team or fired because they are complaining or 2) relegated to pointless tasks by a team leader that resents having their judgement called into question.

    Sure, it's hard. It's doable though.
    People can be very petty, arrogant, vain, and most of all ambitious. The bigger the company the more of these type of people you get, so I expect them to fail, especially since their solution is not a good one in the long run.

  2. #342
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tralfamadore
    Posts
    31,311
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    To #1... umm, to be a developer you have to have development experience. Very few people get hired into a top tier company like Blizzard as a "blank slate". And less than 20% of computer science majors are female. So it's tough to get to 33% of your workforce as female unless you have lower standards for hiring women.
    Even at Blizzard there are entry-level positions that start an employee on the path to development. QA is one of them. There are others including internships which should be aggressively and fairly recruited with an eye toward diversity. Some internships work out, many don't. But the opportunity should be handed out in a fair manner.

    I have no argument with your comments on 'crunch' culture. It needs to go and it's acceptance in IT culture is more a manifestation of how badly projects are run, how unrealistic project target dates are, and the incompetence of team leaders, managers, and producers who should know better. As has been said earlier candidates that submit good portfolios of work likely have more value to the applicant than a computer science degree.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2021-10-28 at 09:36 PM.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Blank slates as far as professional experience. Meritocracy based on previous experience doesn't really apply in this case. The argument I see is "Women will be hired over far more experienced males just to meet quotas." That doesn't need to apply in the case of new hires and entry-level positions.
    Should be obvious that it's a fallback. If they have no previous xp you look at portfolio which comes close to previous work and if they haven't that grades. There is always a metric you can employ to rank people. Worst case you make one up. Whole point is after all getting the best candidate.

  4. #344
    High Overlord Chilela's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Funposter Retirement Home
    Posts
    178
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    A few points:

    1. The meritocracy argument that so many are relying on doesn't hold up when you're talking about recruits for entry positions. Those recruits looking to get their first job in development, art, music, whatever are going to be pretty much blank slates. Othewise it wouldn't be an entry position. It's likely that a lot of the balancing will be done at this level.

    2. Recruiting will be wider and more formalized. That's a good thing. Moves internally should be put up and applied for just like any other job including outside recruitment. A job bid is a job bid and should seek the widest possible range of applicants.

    3. Hiring 'bros' of current employees will probably end.

    The real takeaway from Kotick's memo is that better pay transparency and no forced arbitration are things that employees wanted. They won. Good for them. And, if they can manage it, there will be no more bullshit among what are supposed to be professional colleagues. That's good too.
    On that third point, I think that part's key to ending systemic anything. So long as industries use the "Who-you-know" model, the people in an outgroup are always going to face an uphill battle, regardless of who is comprised of said group.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    As someone who works in game development, your grades don't mean anything really. Due to Game Design being a relatively new major in college, most programs are terrible and you'll have to just learn everything on the job anyways. Also a college degree isn't required for most game dev positions anyways.
    As someone who took one of said programs (but failed to get any long-term game dev, or even general tech position), I can confirm having to learn just about everything on the job. It gives a knowledge of fundamentals, at best. Even on the internship I did, it was 90% stuff I hadn't done before, so I sort of had to learn everything on my own.
    Last edited by Chilela; 2021-10-28 at 09:47 PM.

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    As someone who works in game development, your grades don't mean anything really. Due to Game Design being a relatively new major in college, most programs are terrible and you'll have to just learn everything on the job anyways. Also a college degree isn't required for most game dev positions anyways.
    Why would you assume i would hire a meme degree? CS degree for engine/networking/database devs. Dont have to make mystery meat choices when you see the dude aced all his tests on database design and took extra classes on it. Certainly better than nothing.

  6. #346
    Pandaren Monk Nalam the Venom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    In the shadows
    Posts
    1,847
    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    What is there to take offense about? I personally don’t have any stake in gender nor do I care about all the labels, but that doesn’t mean I have to be against it. If hearing non binary or cis gender lingo agitates you, then you probably have some deep rooted problem you’re neglecting. Most people just don’t care about it, but you do.
    I care that they are giving the term attention and validation.

    I don't like how they encourage this behaviour

    Every one should simply.. just not care.

    Don't acknowledge it at all.

    Awsome signature and avatar made by Kuragalolz

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Even at Blizzard there are entry-level positions that start an employee on the path to development. QA is one of them. There are others including internships which should be aggressively and fairly recruited with an eye toward diversity. Some internships work out, many don't. But the opportunity should be handed out in a fair manner.

    I have no argument with your comments on 'crunch' culture. It needs to go and it's acceptance in IT culture is more a manifestation of how badly projects are run, how unrealistic project target dates are, and the incompetence of team leaders, managers, and producers who should know better. As has been said earlier candidates that submit good portfolios of work likely have more value to the applicant than a computer science degree.
    I don't see how "crunch" culture would ever be ended voluntarily by a company. Most CEOs love it - they get more worker productivity, they meet deadlines more reliably (because they can just scale up hours at a whim) - and at least in the US, (predominantly male) workers are willing to do it.

    And as long as you keep the crunch culture, the core development departments will remain predominantly male. The pressure to hire for diversity will mean that other departments where there isn't as much crunch (like HR, billing, etc.) will become female. It's not going to be truly diverse, it'll be segregated.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumy View Post
    Specifically, I have asked the Board to reduce my pay to the lowest amount California law will allow for people earning a salary, which this year is $62,500. To be clear, this is a reduction in my overall compensation, not just my salary. I am asking not to receive any bonuses or be granted any equity during this time.
    According to Equilar research, Kotick has received $461 million in total compensation since 2007.

    Not sure how he will survive on that awful salary. He will prolly need to put a kitten mount or something in the WoW store today before he goes broke.

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    I don't see how "crunch" culture would ever be ended voluntarily by a company. Most CEOs love it - they get more worker productivity, they meet deadlines more reliably (because they can just scale up hours at a whim) - and at least in the US, (predominantly male) workers are willing to do it.
    There is a photo timeline of a cdpr lead dev witcher 1 - 3 where he goes visibly zombie mode due to crunch. Straight quit after witcher 3 but in the meantime they got excellent value. Thats the price - they lost core people due to crunch and the result was cyberpunk. Its a pump&dump strategy for shortterm profits. Longterm its killing the golden goose.

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    As someone who works in game development, your grades don't mean anything really. Due to Game Design being a relatively new major in college, most programs are terrible and you'll have to just learn everything on the job anyways. Also a college degree isn't required for most game dev positions anyways.
    As someone who has taught computer science, grades are unlikely to ever matter because it's really, really hard to assess students in computer science. When you have to grade dozens of different original programs at the same time, it becomes obvious that you're not going to be able to assess them well. So you end up defining a rubric that some students optimize around and do really well, while others don't bother because following a rubric is annoying and boring. So grades reflect your ability and desire to meet objectives defined in a rubric, not how good a programmer you are.

  11. #351
    High Overlord Chilela's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Funposter Retirement Home
    Posts
    178
    Quote Originally Posted by mbit View Post
    There is a photo timeline of a cdpr lead dev witcher 1 - 3 where he goes visibly zombie mode due to crunch. Straight quit after witcher 3 but in the meantime they got excellent value. Thats the price - they lost core people due to crunch and the result was cyberpunk. Its a pump&dump strategy for shortterm profits. Longterm its killing the golden goose.
    Pretty much. There's a good reason people who stay with one company long-term are rare. So long as fresh bodies replace the old ones, odds are it will continue.

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    They're the incompetents that resulted the suit, wtf lmfaoo
    doesn't matter, the SJW's are the one's that ruined Blizzard and derailed development of their precious game so any and all reason for why that is doesn't register at all for these people.

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by mbit View Post
    There is a photo timeline of a cdpr lead dev witcher 1 - 3 where he goes visibly zombie mode due to crunch. Straight quit after witcher 3 but in the meantime they got excellent value. Thats the price - they lost core people due to crunch and the result was cyberpunk. Its a pump&dump strategy for shortterm profits. Longterm its killing the golden goose.
    I don't agree that it hurts them long term, because the benefits of being able to make everyone work like crazy are huge. Game development is such a nonlinear process that it's hard to schedule and line up assets exactly where you need them unless you have some flexibility and can make certain groups work longer when they are blocking the critical path. So if you can get away with it, it's worth it to hire smart young 20 somethings and work them until they burn out, instead of carefully managing their schedule to cultivate them over the long term. Your leadership team usually needs to have experience, but they usually make enough money and/or they can manage their hours a bit better than the scrubs at the bottom that you're not going to have an issue with that.

  14. #354
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA lets get more diversity hires in, that'll fix the game...

    Can't wait for 10.0 to remove any attractive females or suggestive armour from the game.

    Computer sciences graduates are mostly males, so going out of your way to disproportionately women or people with mental disorders is a sure-fire way to dilute what little talent there was left developing the game

    You get what you fucking deserve

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    I don't agree that it hurts them long term, because the benefits of being able to make everyone work like crazy are huge. Game development is such a nonlinear process that it's hard to schedule and line up assets exactly where you need them unless you have some flexibility and can make certain groups work longer when they are blocking the critical path. So if you can get away with it, it's worth it to hire smart young 20 somethings and work them until they burn out, instead of carefully managing their schedule to cultivate them over the long term. Your leadership team usually needs to have experience, but they usually make enough money and/or they can manage their hours a bit better than the scrubs at the bottom that you're not going to have an issue with that.
    They didnt do that. As said they got their lead core members to quit. It happened even mid development. The replacement was naturally incapable to substitute that loss. They are literally sqeezing as much as they can out now at the cost of higher longterm earnings by keeping the people working at max performance. Crunch is a crutch.

  16. #356
    So I guess this means that any man who wants to develop for Blizzard or enter into a senior role needs to move to a country with lower salaries and housing/personal security? Their US workforce can't grow forever, so the only way I see them making this shift in demographics is by firing men over nothing at all, killing employees somehow, huge layoff waves, or shipping off several employees to another global arm of their company where they can make the numbers in the US look the way they promised to.

  17. #357
    2. We will increase the percentage of women and non-binary people in our workforce by 50% and will invest $250 million to accelerate opportunities for diverse talent –Today, approximately 23% of our global employee population identifies as women or non-binary. Building on the success that King and other business units have achieved, we will seek to increase our percentage of women and non-binary professionals by approximately 50% – to more than one-third across the entire company – within the next five years and hopefully faster. Each franchise team, business unit, and functional area will be expected to have plans to help fulfill this ambition.
    Yeah this is the deathblow. Any hope for salvage is gone.




    https://www.linkedin.com/business/ta...by-166-percent

    https://www.pcgamer.com/how-blizzard...n-just-3-years

    Many more articles like this. It's amazing how this push and decline timeline lines up so perfectly. Clearly coincidence.

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by mbit View Post
    They didnt do that. As said they got their lead core members to quit. It happened even mid development. The replacement was naturally incapable to substitute that loss. They are literally sqeezing as much as they can out now at the cost of higher longterm earnings by keeping the people working at max performance. Crunch is a crutch.
    Oh I agree that it can backfire, and it sounds like you've identified a case where that happened, but I don't think that's the norm. There are a lot of Blizz employees who lasted there a long time (20 years or so), and they certainly worked through a huge number of serious crunches. I think that on the whole, crunch culture increases performance and profits.

    Incidentally, I think it leads to a male dominated work culture, and also to some of the craziness we see at these companies (when you're working at a place 70 hours minimum per week, things can get a bit weird in the office).

  19. #359
    High Overlord Chilela's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Funposter Retirement Home
    Posts
    178
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcho View Post
    So I guess this means that any man who wants to develop for Blizzard or enter into a senior role needs to move to a country with lower salaries and housing/personal security? Their US workforce can't grow forever, so the only way I see them making this shift in demographics is by firing men over nothing at all, killing employees somehow, huge layoff waves, or shipping off several employees to another global arm of their company where they can make the numbers in the US look the way they promised to.
    Between the high turnover rates in the games industry (as is currently being discussed ITT), Blizzard's pushing of more Diverse™ talent, and (mostly-white male) industry vets eventually reaching retirement age, the shift seems like it will likely occur with minimal, if any, deliberate firings. Just may take them longer than they'd want.

  20. #360
    Sooo how does this work, talented candidates that are a great fit in a role will have their applications declined if they're male?

    Am I missing something or is this just pure idiocy?
    Last edited by kranur; 2021-10-28 at 10:32 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •