There are benefits in being hard to switch specs and it might be why WoW does it.

[epigramx]

Games can become better if they are defined in a more strict set of rules; they become simpler for the average human to understand them; if you have a very strict and limited set of rules: then you can more easily optimize inside those rules and reach optimal performance in their confines.

In practice in this game: the average human playing is probably playing badly if they spec-hop all the time; they may have determined if they stick to 1 spec then they "get gud" more easily so to speak; it is therefore indeed a form of hand-holding but not only without benefits.

[Kalisandra]

Games can become better if they are defined in a more strict set of rules; they become simpler for the average human to understand them; if you have a very strict and limited set of rules: then you can more easily optimize inside those rules and reach optimal performance in their confines.

In practice in this game: the average human playing is probably playing badly if they spec-hop all the time; they may have determined if they stick to 1 spec then they "get gud" more easily so to speak; it is therefore indeed a form of hand-holding but not only without benefits.

Eh. All strict spec-locking would do is 'force' more alt-levelling.

[epigramx]

Eh. All strict spec-locking would do is 'force' more alt-levelling.

That implies levelling a new character is less work; it's much more work; it makes it worse for your argument.

[potis]

There are no benefits to spec locking, all you have with limitations like that is the majority running around in wrong talents, unable to change specs, the same way it happened in Vanilla, where someone was too stingy, or didnt have the gold to respec their terrible fake-choice of a talent.

Also people dont get better if they play one spec, getting better is a mentality, and heavily combined with perception/intelligence, some people simply cant, but mentioning anything, is toxic.

Give the majority of WoW players 2 buttons and tell them how to press them 10 times in a row repeatedly, most will literally fail with some excuse.

[epigramx]

There are no benefits to spec locking, all you have with limitations like that is the majority running around in wrong talents, unable to change specs, the same way it happened in Vanilla, where someone was too stingy, or didnt have the gold to respec their terrible fake-choice of a talent.

Also people dont get better if they play one spec, getting better is a mentality, and heavily combined with perception/intelligence, some people simply cant, but mentioning anything, is toxic.

Give the majority of WoW players 2 buttons and tell them how to press them 10 times in a row repeatedly, most will literally fail with some excuse.

Your first sentence is an oxymoron; if you have no clue how to play one spec then you have even more no clue how to play multiple specs; you make it even more complex for mediocre players to learn.

Your second sentence has no argument; you just say without explanation "it's just worse"; it's not under certain conditions since especially the lower skilled players will not be good on multiple spes.

Your third sentence makes your 2nd sentence even more clearly false; you state simplicity will make them worse; simplicity is objectively easier to learn.

[Mic_128]

In practice in this game: the average human playing is probably playing badly if they spec-hop all the time; they may have determined if they stick to 1 spec then they "get gud" more easily so to speak;

By that logic, shouldn't it be even better if players can only have a single character? They're going to be playing badly if they character-hop all the time, no?

[epigramx]

By that logic, shouldn't it be even better if players can only have a single character? They're going to be playing badly if they character-hop all the time, no?

Of course, but that's too extreme. And: even if the solution of that nature is not perfect: it does not mean a partial solution doesn't have benefits.

[Azxza]

Games can become better if they are defined in a more strict set of rules; they become simpler for the average human to understand them; if you have a very strict and limited set of rules: then you can more easily optimize inside those rules and reach optimal performance in their confines.

In practice in this game: the average human playing is probably playing badly if they spec-hop all the time; they may have determined if they stick to 1 spec then they "get gud" more easily so to speak; it is therefore indeed a form of hand-holding but not only without benefits.

This is nonsense and it isn't the reason they did it. Ion spells it out in the interview. Read it.

[sweetbabygang]

Games can become better if they are defined in a more strict set of rules; they become simpler for the average human to understand them; if you have a very strict and limited set of rules: then you can more easily optimize inside those rules and reach optimal performance in their confines.

In practice in this game: the average human playing is probably playing badly if they spec-hop all the time; they may have determined if they stick to 1 spec then they "get gud" more easily so to speak; it is therefore indeed a form of hand-holding but not only without benefits.

Switching specs should work like it used to. Bring back the old talent tree, you have to go back to a trainer to respec and it costs more and more money. Like up to 50k gold.

[Triceron]

Just makes the case that the focus of the class should have always been on the class, and not on the specs.

[epigramx]

This is nonsense and it isn't the reason they did it. Ion spells it out in the interview. Read it.

What part of meaningless marketing talk in the interview are you referring to?

[Kalisandra]

Switching specs should work like it used to. Bring back the old talent tree, you have to go back to a trainer to respec and it costs more and more money. Like up to 50k gold.

And if I want to do a bit of PvP on my tank, I have to suck it up because tanks are (outside of rBGs) awful in PvP (or they're over-powered, but that always brings a swift nerfing)? That seems fair and likely to encourage people to play tanks.

[Leer]

It effects the wannabes pretty much exclusively. People who are in the verge of being mythic raiders but are just not quite there. Usually they are rather dependent on being good at just one spec or even just one talent build.

[sweetbabygang]

And if I want to do a bit of PvP on my tank, I have to suck it up because tanks are (outside of rBGs) awful in PvP (or they're over-powered, but that always brings a swift nerfing)? That seems fair and likely to encourage people to play tanks.

How did you do it before dualspec?

By allowing more freedom you just end up with a system where no choice matters because everything can be changed easily. And then they have to introduce stupid systems like Covenants.

[LedZeppelin]

dual spec was the best because with the old talents you could have MS/OS pve healer pvp dps etc. 1 spec is too rigid, being able to swap freely is boring but dual spec was a nice medium

[sweetbabygang]

dual spec was the best because with the old talents you could have MS/OS pve healer pvp dps etc. 1 spec is too rigid, being able to swap freely is boring but dual spec was a nice medium

When you have dual spec, people will ask for triple spec.

[Kalisandra]

How did you do it before dualspec?

Levelled alts so I could run a multi-skilled gathering/crafting system and play the AH to pay for the gold to constantly swap between tank, healer, PvE DPS, and PvP DPS (or PvP healer). Also, geared some alts for those roles. It sucked.

[sweetbabygang]

Levelled alts so I could run a multi-skilled gathering/crafting system and play the AH to pay for the gold to constantly swap between tank, healer, PvE DPS, and PvP DPS (or PvP healer). Also, geared some alts for those roles. It sucked.

You can always buy a token.

[Selah]

Folks... this is a video game that is meant to be fun. Some people love getting to play a bunch of different play styles or specs or classes. That's what they enjoy. They do not have an obligation to be min-maxing or playing the most optimally. If they want to be sub-optimal, that's their choice. You don't get to come along and tell people the must be optimal or lock them into a spec because you want them to be optimal. That's an insane way of thinking.

If you enjoy min-maxing and doing the most optimal rotation, that's fine and you should play that way. You should also seek out guilds and groups of players that play the way you do instead of insisting everyone else play the way you do.

What you're saying in this thread is as crazy as if the top guilds of the world trying to shame roleplayers because they're not running M+ or raids. Why would you do that?

[Kalisandra]

You can always buy a token.

So now, because I want to be able to help my guild out by covering roles as required, but still want to do the things I find fun, I must pay extra real money, as well as spending the extra time to get and maintain multiple gear sets? That's the alternative to spending vast amounts of time making gold to pay for this bright idea you guys have? Yeah, no.