Do you feel like Shadowlands is the "conclusion to the first book of Warcraft saga"?

[Soeroah]

I think Shadowlands is tying up the first round of story arcs for a lot of characters and mysteries, but no, I don't think it's the conclusion of a saga. That just sounds like repeating the FF14 Endwalker marketing.

[Beastiel]

That would imply that this stuff existed in concept when wc3/tft was out. That's dumb as fuck.

Imagine making a random sequal to a hit movie with a great ending that's over a decade old and being like "this feels like a real conclusion to that movie"

fuck off.

[Khaza-R]

Not at all. Shadowlands feels completely unnecessary attempt to vindicate Sylvanas and ruin previous lore in the process.

Its by far the worst story in WarCraft's history by a chasmal mile

[Nerovar]

It's more like the first chapter of the Clownworld of Warcraft saga.

[Xilurm]

The conclusion of the "First Book" is Arthas.
The conclusion of the "Second Book" is Legion.
The conclusion of the "Third Book" is Ashara and the old gods. (Only this was canceled)

Shadowland doesn't really connect to any of the Rest of WoW and what little it connects (BFA) isn't going to shut it down.

I'm pretty sure they meant everything from WC3 until now is just the first book. Whatever starts in 10.0 is the 2nd book.

[DemonHunter18]

thats now how they are trying to market it tho. they arent saying this is the end of an old chapter AND the beginning of a new, they are saying its the definite final chapter of WC3, and something new will start AFTER this.
and it definitely isnt. the fact that they are trying to claim this, when none of the current writers have even worked on WC3, is almost insulting, to both the fans and the original writers of WC3.

imagine some random writer suddenly publishing LotR4, where he pulls a big super villain out of his ass and says "this is the guy who manipulated morgoth and sauron into doing evil things" and then tries to sell it as the "final act of the LotR story".

the big super villain didnt exist before, he didnt manipulate morgoth and sauron, and it definitely isnt the big final act of LotR, bc tolkien himself had absolutely nothing to do with it and didnt want it that way.
this is whats basically happening here

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

And I thought people who fragrantly stretched the truth were uncommon..

I've never seen a finer example of people looking for something to be angry with, and mob-like think rather than individually paced assessment of what the fuck Steve meant.


He clearly didn't mean what you're all making it out to be, his wording might've been bad, but you really, really think this guy couldn't have expected a reaction like this if what was what he meant?

I'm not defending the guy, I'm calling out the obvious voluntary oversight by so many here to justify this as an outlet for their anger.

WAY too many of you aren't using quotes to back up your claims too. Don't re-contextualize his wording in your head, that's setting yourself up for anger. Just read the quotes and look at his demeanor seriously, and anyone here would see that these :

"Shadowlands is like the final chapter in the one book of the Warcraft Saga."

and

"Eternity's End serves as the final chapter in one book of the Warcraft Saga."

and...

"The Shadowlands story pulls together threads that started in Warcraft III and wove their way through many of our expansions."

are not what they're being made out to be by so many of you.
like "they are saying its the definite final chapter of WC3"

It's not specific which ONE book, and only the reference to Warcraft 3 are "threads that started" there.

Snap out of it folks, use the exact quotes to justify your thinking and not some other angry poster's/streamer's clout-chasing.

[Khaza-R]

It's not specific which ONE book, and only the reference to Warcraft 3 are "threads that started" there.

Snap out of it folks, use the exact quotes to justify your thinking and not some other angry poster's/streamers clout-chasing.

Thing is the threads started in WC3 and ended in WotLK. His BS new story isn't carefully woven with that previous lore, its painfully sutured like the Frakenstein monstrosity it really is.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

Thing is the threads started in WC3 and ended in WotLK. His BS new story isn't carefully woven with that previous lore, its painfully sutured like the Frakenstein monstrosity it really is.

Fair enough, but it wasn't him that let Sylvanas survive ICC was it?

She's a thread as long as she lives. The idea of where did Arthas' soul go is a thread, albeit a newly posited idea.
Admittedly ones like Jaina/Arthas and What happened to Uther's soul were tied up nicely in ICC.

Even the Dreadlords are still a thread if we accept their SL lore as valid.

[shoc]

Literally nothing we are dealing with in Shadowlands existed until 15 minutes ago. What the fuck is Danuser on hahaha

[Hellobolis]

well, if the first book took 20+ years to tell, then at least we can rest assured the second book will never be completed.

i'd personally say arthas was the main story, legion/old gods expanded universe, and now were at the part where they jump the shark.

[Romanthony]

Shadowlands isnt really a book its The Index at the end

[ZZhan]

since they made elune so stupid lorewise i really dont care about shadowlands, is like a bad dream of writting nonsense trying to be creative somehow.

The bar is veeery low for the net expac, the love for the game just make me hope for a full gameplay rework in 10.0, but my common sense is telling me the game is doomed.

[Helander]

The story of warcraft in the past 8-10 years has felt more like the drunken ramblings of a brain damaged murloc than a cohesive story.

[Seasz]

The story of warcraft in the past 20 years has felt more like the drunken ramblings of a brain damaged murloc than a cohesive story.

Fixed it 4y

[Aresk]

The issue I have with trying to classify WoW in chapters is that, linearly, it doesn't really work well, particularly early on. Classic has no overarching story to it, with more vignettes throughout the patches and zones. TBCs story--as much as it attempts to have one--is a mess. From there, there's no cohesive transition from WotLK to Cataclysm narratively, with many dropping the last raid from WotLK as a raid because it simply doesn't really fit with the expansion's story (and only had one boss). As such, if I were trying to classify the arcs, I'd probably lump them like this:

• WC1-WC3: The attempt of the Burning Legion to invade Azeroth through orcs and then undead, with their ultimate failure
• TFT, WotLK, SL: The story of the undead's rise to power, eventual fall, and final resolution of the Scourge and powers of Death
• TBC, WoD, Legion: The story of the Legion's comeback and final failure
• Cata, MoP, BfA: The story of the Old Gods' struggle to corrupt Azeroth (also the majority of the faction conflict stories)
• Classic: An anthology of Warcraft tales, with some elements of all the above

Obviously there are some threads of one story in other expansions, such as Yogg-Saron in WotLK, but largely I feel those are the chapters of WC. In that regard, I guess SL is the end of a chapter in my mind, with some threads that go back to WC3's expansion, but I would disagree that SL is the conclusion of the WC1-SL story, as there are just too many filler narratives if that was the overarching tale.

[thottstation]

When they say "conclusion", they mean retirement. Retirement of wow characters and lore they despise.

You have to remember: the WoW team hate the people who made the lore and the characters. They actively despise the Cosby Crew, and all their creations. And they're infuriated that people like those creations.

So the new WoW team are actively retiring or replacing characters and concept with new versions of their own.

• Titans? No; First Ones.
• Titanic Keepers? No; Eternal Ones.
• Emerald Dream? No; Ardenweald.
• Sargeras? No; Jailer.
• Minions of the Old Gods? No; Devourers.
• Valk'yr? No; Bastion.
• Ethereals? No; Brokers.
• Arthas? No; Anduin.
• Scourge? No; Maldraxxus.
• etc... etc...

The WoW world, it's lore, and the characters therein were all created by evil people, and those people are gone now.

The new WoW team are actively and systemically removing everything the old WoW team created and replacing them with "close-enough" characters and concepts in the hopes that players can transplant that love from the old to the new. Those they cannot kill off entirely, they rewrite to make them unpopular.


The Night Elves and their home are beloved and popular and unique to WoW and are what drew many people in decades ago?
- Burn the tree, kill them all.
The new Lich King is popular and fans are eagerly waiting for him to rise up?
- Take him out like a pissant. And break that stupid helmet.
Varyan and Vol'jin are popular old-school characters with tons of backstory and potential story arcs?
- Kill 'em off.
Azshara and Nazjatar built up and anticipated for decades?
- Finish it in a patch.
Elune and Sylvanas are popular, but too popular to kill off?
- Rewrite them to make them idiots so players will be more than happy to discard and forget them.
Have we depowered and removed those stupid Doomhammer and Ashbringer things?
- Good, good...

...etc.

And once the core tenants of WoW are replaced, the WoW team can finally begin the Next Chapter™ of World of Warcraft: The rise of Taelia Fordragon to the throne, Calia Menethil's leadership of the Forsaken, and their uniting of the Horde & Alliance against the common threat of
Xal'atath.
With the bonus stories of Magatha Grimtotem's redemption arc, Thalyssra dealing with Lor'themar's death and helping Liadrin become leader of the Blood Elves, Tess Greymane mourning the death of her father and her rise to the throne, and Talanji waging her own war against the Alliance by killing Muradin and Magni, sparking a blood fued against the dwarves now supreme ruler, Moira Thaurissan.


And any pushback or negative reviews of their C-grade new product is dismissed as "trolling" or QQ tears from angry, petulant, bigoted manbabies. Because the new WoW team are beautiful and brave and the work they do is wonderful. Blizzard isn't a place to create product based on metrics like "popularity" and consumer appreciation; Blizzard HQ is a place to teach and shape and mold the new generation of leaders and creators in a positive, nurturing environment. And all Blizzard staff must stand together and hold strong against the toxic players who don't hate your product, but your demographic.

Ignore the toxic players saying the product is bad! Stay on Twitter. The only REAL feedback are the suportive comments from your friends at Blizzard HQ.

Shadowlands is great. The lore is wonderful. The Jailer is an amazing, deep, complex character, as are all the others.

There is no negativity in the dojo.

[masterjc]

best endpoints and best wrapped up stories were:
1. WotLk -it was both: independent story with start and middle and ending. and also conclusion of bigger story since Wc2/wc3

2. MoP - it was confirmed to be ending of 2 part story (cata+MoP) amd it really had connections with previous expansion and was pretty satisfying as independent story and as ending of bigger story

3. Legion - it too was good. as independent story and also wrapped up some loose endings from Tbc, WoD, wc3 and so on. it was really good

4. Bfa/SL have only sylvanas as common. and both stories sucked tbh. they were almost as bad as Wod one , except WoD had almost no campaign

while covenant campaigns were at least mediocre, and on wow scale of stories maybe it was mediocre +, BfA mostly was fucked up. and chaotic stories which were not wrapped and delivered well. and it did not have any good interconnections


HeY. suddenly it got me an idea (which if it is good than Blizzard wont use(, maybe by going to zereth mortis will help us save Azeroth the titan?

las time we saw her she was fucking bleeding and we had absolutely no solution found yet. not even permanent one

also zereth mortis could be used to start some sort of WoW2 with lots of reshaping world if Blizzard dares to do it. its a chance of cataclysm scale revamp with better results

and would be nice restart too

[rayvio]

it doesn't feel like it is, but it does feel like it should be. they need to admit that if WoW is going to continue to be a force then it needs to be able to stand on what it can be now and not depend on what it was fifteen years ago. they tried to prop Shadowlands up by using bits and pieces from WotLK and Legion and... well what happens if you're building a house and rip parts out of the foundation in order to use them in the new attic extension? build on the foundations but don't try to scavenge from them or your house is just going to fall down
Shadowlands isn't a complete wreck, there's some good bits and pieces but it IS a mess. I don't have any confidence in Danuser but there are some good storylines and quests that show that there is still some talent working on the game, they CAN do better. the question is whether they will

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

No.
Arc 1=W3-WOTLK
Arc 2=Cata-Legion
Arc 3=BFA-Now