The gods are 3d printed? (9.2)

[Mace]

Just because the universe is expanding does not mean that more habitable planets and suns are going to appear out of nowhere. All that means in practical terms, is that distances between suns and galaxies will continue to grow. If no one dies, a world will be overwhelmed pretty quickly, and not just because of people having babies. Imagine hordes of mice, rats, flies, mosquitoes, all no longer able to die. All those animals laying hundreds of eggs in a go because only a few survive, are now all surviving. Plants no longer die and continue to grow forever. (We actually see this in-game to an extent, with the Botani and the Overgrowth in Alternate-Nagrand.) You age and age as your body shrivels and twists as the cells continue to fail to reproduce accurately.

Depending on the rules, it could mean things like cancers and tumours can't be destroyed either, as those cancer cells can no longer die, as well as everyone being in a constant state of starvation as the plant or animal cells can't 'die', and be broken down to digest.

THe thing is, you would make or terra form more habitable locations. Death is not an essential. Thanos was wrong.

[Mic_128]

There's no evidence they created the Universe. What we know from the Chronicles is that the Universe was created from the clash between Light and Void.

The problem is that Chronicles is written from the perspective of the Titans and their servants, and as far as they know, that's how the universe was created.

THe thing is, you would make or terra form more habitable locations.

That still doesn't do anything to deal with the other issues of life running amok. Hell, you don't even need to terraform a planet, since you cannot die.


Even if you do go to aother world, that still won't stop plant-life growing out of control. Hell, just imagine spores and bacteria constantly, forever replicating, unable to be stopped. Imagine the mushrooms and other fungus sprouting in everyone's lungs, their bodies unable to kill the invaders.

Having a new planet to live on wouldn't' stop that. It wouldn't stop you aging into a withered, twisted, cancerous horror that can't die.

[Varodoc]

The problem is that Chronicles is written from the perspective of the Titans and their servants, and as far as they know, that's how the universe was created.



That still doesn't do anything to deal with the other issues of life running amok. Hell, you don't even need to terraform a planet, since you cannot die.


Even if you do go to aother world, that still won't stop plant-life growing out of control. Hell, just imagine spores and bacteria constantly, forever replicating, unable to be stopped. Imagine the mushrooms and other fungus sprouting in everyone's lungs, their bodies unable to kill the invaders.

Having a new planet to live on wouldn't' stop that. It wouldn't stop you aging into a withered, twisted, cancerous horror that can't die.

As far as I know, the only place where it's implied that the First Ones are, indeed, the "first ones to exist", is the Grimoire of the Shadowlands, which was written by a Broker. Since the Brokers are automatons created by the First Ones, it makes sense that the creature would be biased and have a partial view.

So more needs to be revealed by more reliable sources. And for the moment I trust the Titans more than the brokers, because they, unlike these glorified robots, are indeed Divine in nature.

[sighy]

At the same time we see that Demons care about "protecting the cosmos from the Void" only when it's a Fel Titan telling them to do so. Otherwise they only care about destruction.

Demons are so inherently evil and despicable that Sargeras literally had to corrupt an entire race of Arcane users to act as his top strategists, because he couldn't rely on the demon brutes.

Because they are """"good""" only by virtue of fighting the Legion alongside other Order halls.

While in reality they're all power-hungry and shady individuals, the thirst for Fel by nature is insatiable. And thus as per the facts, the term "good" here is used very loosely.

And depending on how you RP your Warlock, even the PC Warlock is a fucking repulsive individual. He could be both a Warlock and a Sylvanas loyalist, one of the most scummy and vile mortals imaginable

Don't tell me that someone would play a warlock and a Sylvanas loyalist to be the good guy

Perhaps a more suitable distinction is between those who choose to wield a cosmic force and those, who allow themselves to be wielded by it. (Or it's prominent beings, at any rate) We know that basically any force has the capacity to be detrimental in our perspective, from the Overgrowth on Dreanor to the Army of the Light turning worlds into glass or Legion leaving them charred husks. Of course the Legion is the most overtly entropic, from our perspective, because it's been consistently looming over our heads.


Void Elves have taken the same "thirsty" mentality to the Void and it nearly got them turned into Ethereals, while Shadow Priests all face the eventuality of going mad from the whispers, even when they take a great deal more disciplined approach than the aforementioned VEs.

(And if we're being honest the PCs are all like a plague of locusts anywhere they go... just picking areas clean of anything usable to improve their trade skills and sell stuff on AH lol)

[Mic_128]

As far as I know, the only place where it's implied that the First Ones are, indeed, the "first ones to exist", is the Grimoire of the Shadowlands, which was written by a Broker. Since the Brokers are automatons created by the First Ones, it makes sense that the creature would be biased and have a partial view.

So more needs to be revealed by more reliable sources. And for the moment I trust the Titans more than the brokers, because they, unlike these glorified robots, are indeed Divine in nature.

So, you don't trust the Brokers, since they were created by the First Ones...but you believe the Titans, who were created by the First Ones?

[Varodoc]

So, you don't trust the Brokers, since they were created by the First Ones...but you believe the Titans, who were created by the First Ones?

There's no evidence that the Titans were created by the First Ones, that's literally the point Where is the proof that Elune, the Titans, etc. were created by the First Ones? Proof that DOESN'T come from a book explicitly made by a First One automaton.

Of course a robot created by the First Ones would think that its creators were almighty and above everyone else, that means nothing. The robot doesn't know better and would be programmed to serve the First Ones, as all creatures of the Shadowlands are (the Janitor being the outlier).

You would have to give me undeniable visual evidence of the First Ones literally forging Elune, the Titans, and all the rest. The word of a robot created by the First Ones is not sufficient and reliable proof.

Unless the First Ones literally put Titan eggs inside the planets for whatever reason, the Titans don't seem to have been created by anyone.

[Mungho]

Where was this shown?

That's why I posted this thread to ask where. It was just someone's take about blizzard's reveal that the first ones made everything. The thread title was really stupid and I wish I hadn't made this thread.

isn' t that like everywhere ? lord of the rings, the bible,quran, marvel universe ?

There's a difference to when a god wills something into being(like God), and giving the impression the First Ones where gathered around a computer, imputing information and then watching as the result is 3d printed next to the machine.

[sunxsera]

That's why I posted this thread to ask where. It was just someone's take about blizzard's reveal that the first ones made everything. The thread title was really stupid and I wish I hadn't made this thread.




There's a difference to when a god wills something into being(like God), and giving the impression the First Ones where gathered around a computer, imputing information and then watching as the result is 3d printed next to the machine.

Well, there isn't really much difference ... they build that computer anyway.
My theory is, they created other gods and demigods - and that forge / computer is so "non-gods" can create life too.
But i really didnt follow 9.2 info too much, i' m just guessing.

[rhorle]

Or maybe they should just be wiped out. Why would you keep around creatures that are intentionally evil and constantly spread misery and destruction?

Who is doing the wiping out in your scenario? One side versus the other? Isn't that what was happening with the Burning Legion? They were winning the battle against order (and also shown to be winning against light). Intentionally evil is also subjective.

[Mace]

The problem is that Chronicles is written from the perspective of the Titans and their servants, and as far as they know, that's how the universe was created.



That still doesn't do anything to deal with the other issues of life running amok. Hell, you don't even need to terraform a planet, since you cannot die.


Even if you do go to aother world, that still won't stop plant-life growing out of control. Hell, just imagine spores and bacteria constantly, forever replicating, unable to be stopped. Imagine the mushrooms and other fungus sprouting in everyone's lungs, their bodies unable to kill the invaders.

Having a new planet to live on wouldn't' stop that. It wouldn't stop you aging into a withered, twisted, cancerous horror that can't die.

That makes assumptions though.

The fact you get withered and aged looking is actually a sign of dying. I can also make the reasonable assumption that if you didn’t die those effects would not exist for you.

If you were immortal then your cells would endlessly generate like they do in their teens/20s , no degradation. Which is why it’s weird night elf males look so old but females don’t. Even when they lost their immortality, they’d just continue aging naturally. It would be centuries before they looked aged.

Only the ones who perhaps were aged looking either by default or before they discovered how to extend their lives perpetually might look old. The lore is weird. Sometimes they don’t think everything through I suspect, or are missing key details.

Like someone should have told the art team that night elf males would look the freshest, healthiest and most peak. Not only were they immortal, they slept the vast majority of the time, thousands of years and just like the arcane they were suffused by thanks to the well. Nature energies channelled are life enhancing.

They totally dropped the ball on this one because they thought or 10,000 years old, they got to look ancient. But when it came to the females they were like, nah, we have to have hot chicks. No consideration for the lore which would have put both genders looking youthful and at their prime. As well as beautiful because elves care about such things.

Back to the excerpt expanding universe. At some point you learn to create resources from raw materials to sustain land. With infinite space, I fine planets comes infinite energy and infinite resources.

Actually with an expanding universe, at the right level of technology or magic, there would never be such a thing as over population or life needing death to control things.

Presumably by that time you would have figured out how to prolong your lives indefinitely like the night elves did in the Kaldorei empire before the well imploded.

Or be lucky like they were to have dragons tie you to an eternal tree sitting on top your well just when you had decided you could even use your Well magic to do any spells including prolong your life indefinitely.

Malfurion Ofc as a Druid would be okay with dying. You know that whole cycle. But not all druids feel they are part or should be part of the cycle of nature.

It’s hypocritical when you have the means to live forever. Do you condemn the very dragons and wild gods who you work with who are eternal and not prt of that cycle? But outside it and act as overseers or stewards just like you do?

In Warcraft there are many highly intelligent entities who do not die for MLfurion to feel his people should is so weird.

But it shows he isn’t right about everything. He is wise makes sense too most of the time. But he was wrong about the ban on magic even if it was the mages who came up with that solution to stop the Legion. He didn’t listen to the best of the mages. The Sunstriders, 3,000 years later when they said it could be used without altering the legion

[Nynax]

The Broker is a creation of the First Ones and thus its opinion is instantly dismissed as biased and partial. Of course an automaton of the First Ones would think that these creatures made everything.

The fact is that there are at least 3 Cosmic forces that do not seek to uphold any cycle; instead, they seek to destroy and consume everything in their own way.

The Light seeks to "purify" everything (based on the visions the Prime Naaru showed Yrel), the Demons have always been a force of destruction, and the Void Lords obviously want to consume all of Reality.

You can easily argue that every cosmic force isn't interested in upholding a cycle if left on it's own.
The Light would Purify all reality
The Void would consume all reality
Disorder (the demons) would destroy all reality
Order would systemize all reality into a "perfect" and unending, unchanging, machine
Life would transform all reality into an unending struggle for growth and survival
Death would organize all reality into an immortal undeath.

So the cycle can only exist with these forces standing in opposition.

[DatToffer]

As far as I know, the only place where it's implied that the First Ones are, indeed, the "first ones to exist", is the Grimoire of the Shadowlands, which was written by a Broker. Since the Brokers are automatons created by the First Ones, it makes sense that the creature would be biased and have a partial view.

So more needs to be revealed by more reliable sources. And for the moment I trust the Titans more than the brokers, because they, unlike these glorified robots, are indeed Divine in nature.

The devs in the 9.2 announcement also talk about this. Not much mystery left then.


https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxkSfwTyF...jfydzfSQyzF15D

[Varodoc]

The devs in the 9.2 announcement also talk about this. Not much mystery left then.


https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxkSfwTyF...jfydzfSQyzF15D

"The First Ones built the Universe AS FAR AS WE KNOW"

I.e., this is PR talk for "WHEN THIS GETS RETCONNED LIKE THE CHRONICLES, DON'T QQ ON REDDIT THIS TIME BECAUSE WE WARNED YOU."

[Myradin]

"The First Ones built the Universe AS FAR AS WE KNOW"

I.e., this is PR talk for "WHEN THIS GETS RETCONNED LIKE THE CHRONICLES, DON'T QQ ON REDDIT THIS TIME BECAUSE WE WARNED YOU."

Ah yes, I can't wait for the Original Ones. Who will also have robots. Cause apparently the warcraft universe is all about robots making robots, who then become fleshy either intentionally nor not intentionally.

[The Stormbringer]

So what you're saying is that the First Ones were actually created by the Before Ones?

It's possible

LOL, I'm glad my name has caught on. I thought the Before Ones was pretty clever, thank you for using it.

[DatToffer]

"The First Ones built the Universe AS FAR AS WE KNOW"

I.e., this is PR talk for "WHEN THIS GETS RETCONNED LIKE THE CHRONICLES, DON'T QQ ON REDDIT THIS TIME BECAUSE WE WARNED YOU."

Yeah, so ?

[rhorle]

"The First Ones built the Universe AS FAR AS WE KNOW" I.e., this is PR talk for "WHEN THIS GETS RETCONNED LIKE THE CHRONICLES, DON'T QQ ON REDDIT THIS TIME BECAUSE WE WARNED YOU."

That isn't PR speak but just normal speak. It also wouldn't be a retcon to learn that there is more beyond what we currently know. It really was a great tool for them to switch to perspective based lore for things like Chronicles. It means they don't need to retcon stuff because it was an unreliable narrator. It won't stop people like you from using it when ever they don't like stuff though.

[Myradin]

Yeah, so ?

I think what they're getting at is seeing the 'origins of creation' gets a bit dry when we keep seeing it over and over and get told that this time its the real true origin of the universe and that its cool and profound.

That isn't PR speak but just normal speak. It also wouldn't be a retcon to learn that there is more beyond what we currently know. It really was a great tool for them to switch to perspective based lore for things like Chronicles. It means they don't need to retcon stuff because it was an unreliable narrator. It won't stop people like you from using it when ever they don't like stuff though.

Yeah I think early blizz was an over-excited DM who wanted to tell his players too much that they really shouldn't/don't need to know.

[Varodoc]

Ah yes, I can't wait for the Original Ones. Who will also have robots. Cause apparently the warcraft universe is all about robots making robots, who then become fleshy either intentionally nor not intentionally.

No, you should know that the Warcraft universe is about Sargeras manipulating Kil'jaeden manipulating Gul'dan manipulating Ner'zhul manipulating Arthas after being scared of the Void Lords. And the Janitor who is manipulating Denathrius who is manipulating the Nathrezim was also manipulating Sargeras, from a certain angle and relatively-speaking. Oh and the Janitor was also manipulating the Lich King, but from a different angle compared to Kil'jaeden.

Did you not pay attention to WC3, this was all established decades ago

Yeah, so ?

So yours is a non-argument.

I could you link you the pic of the Chronicles clearly saying that the Universe was created from the Light and Void clashing and you'd have no way of countering this aside from citing that moment where Blizzard said that Chronicles is written from the Titans' perspective.

So yours is a non-argument. We don't have the full picture. AS FAR AS WE KNOW, based on what the Broker said in that book that only 20 people read worldwide, the First Ones created everything. The Titans however believed that the Light and Void actually created everything and their view is also acknowledged Canonically. And so you are wrong in saying that it is FACTUAL that the First Ones are the makers of all; it is not. Nowhere is it presented as an absolute, undeniable truth that the First Ones created everything.

[rhorle]

Did you not pay attention to WC3, this was all established decades ago

Blizzard has never said it was established decades ago. What they said is this is the end of stories that started decades ago. Book 9 is ending stories that started in Book 1. It didn't have to be all known for that to be the case.