Zereth Mortis

[huth]

First of all, i haven't watches the movie, so i don't know what the story is about.
Secondly, eternals are the different pantheon, not just death. Meaning, titans are as well. And, they were on Azeroth at one point.
Thirdly, how am i mixing First Ones and Titans? Cloudmaker explained how the Eternals are the equivalents of WoW Eternals while the Celestials are the equivalents of the First Ones.

Eternal Ones are the Pantheon of Death specificially. Which by itself is already a completely different situation. They are four individuals serving as direct, open leaders.
Titans may or may not be also a First One created pantheon. We don't know. Cloudmaker did not explain how they are equivalent. The explanation shows that they are, in fact, nothing alike beyond the name. Neither are the First Ones, which you're still conflating with Titans. Azeroth is a Titan, not a First One. The Titanforged were placed on her surface to protect her, not to nourish her, and only long after she first came into being. The Eternal Ones also have absolutely nothing to do with Azeroth and exist completely seperate from it in a different realm.

There's some superficial similarities here, but the actual stories are vastly different. You're still putting to much emphasis on similarities while completely glossing over the major differences.

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At one point during a quest they referred to the covenant leaders as the Pantheon of Death. Weren't the Titans referred to as a Pantheon? Are they they Pantheon of Order? Are there Pantheons for each cosmic force?

The Titans referred to their own organisation as The Pantheon. That doesn't imply any of the other things, though. Names aren't exclusive.

[Raetary]

At one point during a quest they referred to the covenant leaders as the Pantheon of Death. Weren't the Titans referred to as a Pantheon? Are they they Pantheon of Order? Are there Pantheons for each cosmic force?

Yes, the Titans are the Pantheon of Order.

And yes, each Force has its own ruling Pantheon.
How those Pantheons are structured is another topic tho.

[TheFirstOnes]

At one point during a quest they referred to the covenant leaders as the Pantheon of Death. Weren't the Titans referred to as a Pantheon? Are they they Pantheon of Order? Are there Pantheons for each cosmic force?

Yes, and they called Odyn and the keepers "servants" of the Pantheon of Order AKA the Titans. Hell, the Chronicle LITERALLY shows the Titans on the side of Order, and the Chronicle is from the perspective of Order in terms of Cosmic shit.

[username993720]

Prototypes CAN be experimented, fair. But unlike the Titans, "experimenting" isn't at all the only thing the Automa do, they literally CREATE THE SHIT YOU SEE IN THE COSMIC REALMS, or at least the Shadowlands for this Zereth specifically.

And the Emerald Dream doesn't?

"And Antorus?" Created after Argus was conquered by the Legion...it's not really that hard to understand here.

Where is it said?
Just a friendly reminder, Titans tend to appropriate things they did not create.

Yeah, and Ardenweald looks like other Azerothian zones, but that doesn't mean they're the same. Hell, Elunaria isn't even about Elune, but it does share her name at best. If you want my take on it, I simply feel the Titans got their ordering and tech shit as an attribute of their Creators AKA the First Ones. Reminder, the Cosmic Pantheons are their "children", and the Forces and Design are their machines and specimens of which they could create the Workshops from, and the Automa are their next layer down who build the realms from these shops. The Titans as the Pantheon of Order have attributes of controlling aspects of Reality and making sure it is safe and balanced, hence why they also have similar things such as Forges and whatnot, but on smaller scales. Death and Life's Pantheons help maintain and hold sway over the souls of Reality and helps make certain life and death are balanced out there, and Light and Shadow's Pantheon exist to keep the melodies of Creation intact, to make sure Darkness doesn't consume all, and to make sure Light doesn't conquer Reality and the other 5 powers in a crazy fucking blindening rampage. Chaos brings meaning to Order, and so their leadership either consumed eachother cause they are Disorder, or the First Ones simply didn't even give them a leadership at all LOL!

It's less that these are really connected cause the First Ones are "titan-ish", but it's just that people like Eonar, Elune, etc have taken aspects from the First Ones and their ordeals but not one of them were given all of these gifts and aspects for each power LOL. Also, that's also possibly coincidence tbh, as to why there's "green" there and whatnot.

I'm saying this because the developers retconned the Titan's ability to create with order. That's why it possible that they found the Emerald Dream, a First Ones realm, and ordered it instead of created it themselves.

Shadowlands has so many statements calling the Emerald Dream and Ardenweald being literal opposites of each-other, and Elune AKA the WQ's sister and counterpart apparently being in some Life Pantheon, and therefore her realm being akin to Ardenweald but for the Planes of Life. Also, Chronicle implies that Freya either made the Dream from nothing or she took the Dream from somewhere bigger and built off it.

I know all that, but you said that Elune is the ruler of the Emerald Dream and that it is but one realm in the plane of life. Where are you getting all of this?

"And who created the Shadowlands if not the First Ones?"

...The Automa, who exist to build everything from the design of the First Ones for each Workshop.

"The First Ones conceived and put in place the six governing forces of reality—Light, Void, Order, Disorder, Life, and Death—as well as the pantheons that embody them—such as the Pantheon of Order and Pantheon of Death—and the realms that they inhabit"

You know you can quote me, right?

Well, that was Legion's story, which came before the Eternals movie. Sooo Marvel copied Blizzard I guess?

How is it Legion's story if the First one were just introduced?

At one point during a quest they referred to the covenant leaders as the Pantheon of Death. Weren't the Titans referred to as a Pantheon? Are they they Pantheon of Order? Are there Pantheons for each cosmic force?

Yes.

Eternal Ones are the Pantheon of Death specificially. Which by itself is already a completely different situation. They are four individuals serving as direct, open leaders.
Titans may or may not be also a First One created pantheon. We don't know. Cloudmaker did not explain how they are equivalent. The explanation shows that they are, in fact, nothing alike beyond the name. Neither are the First Ones, which you're still conflating with Titans. Azeroth is a Titan, not a First One. The Titanforged were placed on her surface to protect her, not to nourish her, and only long after she first came into being. The Eternal Ones also have absolutely nothing to do with Azeroth and exist completely seperate from it in a different realm.

There's some superficial similarities here, but the actual stories are vastly different. You're still putting to much emphasis on similarities while completely glossing over the major differences.

"The First Ones conceived and put in place the six governing forces of reality—Light, Void, Order, Disorder, Life, and Death—as well as the pantheons that embody them—such as the Pantheon of Order and Pantheon of Death—and the realms that they inhabit".

The Titans referred to their own organisation as The Pantheon. That doesn't imply any of the other things, though. Names aren't exclusive.

All are pantheons. Do you know the meaning?

[BobAwesome]

Can't wait to see the Pantheon of Void

[huth]

All are pantheons. Do you know the meaning?

Temple of all gods. Did you know that?

That the Titans created an organisation they call The Pantheon does not mean that they actually are one of those 6 "pantheons".

[TheFirstOnes]

Can't wait to see the Pantheon of Void

The Void Lords you mean?

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Temple of all gods. Did you know that?

That the Titans created an organisation they call The Pantheon does not mean that they actually are one of those 6 "pantheons".

Why would that not be the case? Also we don't really know if the Titans can access their Order Realm, as it seems Aluneth came from a realm outside of Reality, and was brought to the Blue Dragonflight, etc.

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And we know each Titan embodies an aspect of Order, Aman'Thul being Time, etc.

[huth]

Why would that not be the case? Also we don't really know if the Titans can access their Order Realm, as it seems Aluneth came from a realm outside of Reality, and was brought to the Blue Dragonflight, etc.

Why would you assume it is? There's nothing hinting that way.

For that matter, no, they don't each embody aspects of Order. At least two even embody different cosmic forces entirely, namely Life and Death, with Sargeras embodying Disorder now, although he didn't start that way. The remainder mostly don't represent either.

Aman'thul is more of an exception than the rule.

[BobAwesome]

The Void Lords you mean?

Yeah. I wonder what the Pantheon of Life is as well.

[LordVargK]

How is it Legion's story if the First one were just introduced?

Because the First Ones are an irrelevant addition tacked upon an already existing story.

Everything described in the Eternals analogy is the story of Azeroth (the titan and WoW's game world) and the titans. First ones don't need to exist for it to work.

[username993720]

Temple of all gods. Did you know that?

That the Titans created an organisation they call The Pantheon does not mean that they actually are one of those 6 "pantheons".

Yes, it does. No double meaning here.

Because the First Ones are an irrelevant addition tacked upon an already existing story.

Everything described in the Eternals analogy is the story of Azeroth (the titan and WoW's game world) and the titans. First ones don't need to exist for it to work.

Then who are the Celestials equivalents?

[LordVargK]

Then who are the Celestials equivalents?

The Titans obviously. Azeroth is not a First one, but a Titan. In Eternals a celestial is emerging from earth. In WoW a titan is emerging from Azeroth. Ergo Celestial = Titan.
No need for the First Ones at all.

[username993720]

The Titans obviously. Azeroth is not a First one, but a Titan. In Eternals a celestial is emerging from earth. In WoW a titan is emerging from Azeroth. Ergo Celestial = Titan.
No need for the First Ones at all.

Then who are the eternals?

[LordVargK]

Then who are the eternals?

Archaedas, Loken, Thorim, Freya, Mimiron, Hodir, Tyr, Ra, and Odyn. The keepers.

[username993720]

Archaedas, Loken, Thorim, Freya, Mimiron, Hodir, Tyr, Ra, and Odyn. The keepers.

So, the titanforged want to kill the celestial (titan) and save humanity?

[LordVargK]

So, the titanforged want to kill the celestial (titan) and save humanity?

No. The plot ist not the same 1:1. Infact nobody wants to kill Azeroth.
But the overall actors and the general setting is the same.

[TheFirstOnes]

Why would you assume it is? There's nothing hinting that way.

For that matter, no, they don't each embody aspects of Order. At least two even embody different cosmic forces entirely, namely Life and Death, with Sargeras embodying Disorder now, although he didn't start that way. The remainder mostly don't represent either.

Aman'thul is more of an exception than the rule.

Tbf here, Argus is also an exception tbh. Also, why wouldn't Norgannon and Gol'ganneth represent those aspects? Also, Khaz'goroth forges and shapes worlds, which in itself can be an aspect of ordering. Eonar also takes aspects of Life to keep Nature across worlds in balance and check, hence the name "Life binder". Aggramar also created things to order the Rock and Plant-Life of Draenor. So, they certainly do represent Order in far more than enough cases.

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So, the titanforged want to kill the celestial (titan) and save humanity?

No. He's saying they would more-so represent the Eternals in terms of comparison. I mean, the Keepers are 100% more-so akin to people like Odin or Ares tbh, as players have literally fought WoW's Hymdal, Odin (Odyn), and Hela (Helya) in past expacs. The Titans representing Celestials and Greek Gods really, same with the Eternal Ones really. Zovaal also namely represents Satanic figures as well as Hades in a way, more-so Satan from Dante's Inferno and other Bliblical ordeals really, and how he stepped away from the law of God (AKA the First Ones, who are akin to TOAA/The Presence, or maybe the Endless? But I doubt that...since the Progenitors seem to scale above Destiny, Eternity, etc which simply represent gifts of the First Ones for their Cosmic Powers and Design).

[Niwes]

Firstest ones are coming!

not before we defeat the first firstest ones that created the firstest ones (that ofc created the first ones)!

at topic:

to me ZM is:

- at least some content
- nothing special
- a zone embedded into some hillarious story stuff, i cant take serious.
- but previous point make ZM fits perfectly into SL xpac
- a nice big playground i like to be in
- it looks ok. a bit rehashed and not that great hot new shit, but after Korthia and the MaW... better.
- its just typical stuff, but ok.

so, all in all for me ZM is simply „ok“. its best feature is, its at least some new content.

[TheFirstOnes]

not before we defeat the first firsted ones that created the firsted ones (that ofc created the first ones)!

But wait, after the first is 0 tho...

The First Ones are...first, by definition. And their first specimens from the language are the 6.

[huth]

Tbf here, Argus is also an exception tbh. Also, why wouldn't Norgannon and Gol'ganneth represent those aspects? Also, Khaz'goroth forges and shapes worlds, which in itself can be an aspect of ordering. Eonar also takes aspects of Life to keep Nature across worlds in balance and check, hence the name "Life binder". Aggramar also created things to order the Rock and Plant-Life of Draenor. So, they certainly do represent Order in far more than enough cases.

Of course they can do it. They're beings of Order. But they don't represent specific aspects of it.

No. The plot ist not the same 1:1. Infact nobody wants to kill Azeroth.
But the overall actors and the general setting is the same.

If you simplify to a point where that no longer means much. This is more a case of pattern recognition overreacting.