Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Saradain]

Again this basically tells Russians "Unless you mass suicide (Which is what protesting is) you're all scum fucks who even if you're in a village 1000s of miles away totally shot the gun that killed a kid that you never saw, never interacted with, never even had any thought about because like 99.99999% of humans you're just trying to live your life and realise that being alive no matter what is the goal of every life form as death means the every second of your life was meaningless shit and a waste of time."

What is the alternative in your opinion then?

We put all the blame on Putin. Who sure as hell ain't gonna visit Hague unless his own lapdogs deliver him there by force.

Then, we realize Putin himself did not fire a single bullet or rocket to Ukraine.

Which in turn shifts the blame on the soldier-terrorists themselves, who actually raped, murdered and pillaged around in Ukraine or commandeered the artillery to bomb civilians from the safety of their own land.

...And we know for fucking sure the oh-so "innocent" russian population will 100% willingly harbor these war criminal orcs in Russia, never turning them in for international justice. Because why would they? They are their own relatives, their own sons.

So what is justice then? Reparations Nazi Russia will not pay unless militarily forced to.

I guess, with this logic train, Ukraine is reduced to a special type of murder-rape-pillage vacation for those who love some thrill in their lives, having a chance to return to Russia alive and continue life with their "innocent" civilian relatives unimpeded?

This, is the reason why people see the population of Nazi Russia to collectively share guilt.

[zealo]

So, we just ignore all the people who were protesting things and getting arrested before the conscription? Because it feels better to paint an entire country with the same brush than to accept the real world is complex? Okie dokie then.

There hasn't been any actually large scale protests against the war yet in Russia.

There's some 20 million people in the metro area of Moscow alone, and all we've seen there so far is a couple thousand people doing it.

[Saradain]

@Kallisto

I'll add some mental gymnastics we can exercise here.

Russian adult men, who are conscripted or willing go to Ukraine, are going to be war criminals. Russian adult men, who are not conscripted, either are too old or have connections/powerful relatives. This will, very likely lead to them not protesting because they do not need to. So they silently turn their gaze away from the matter when they could have done something.

Russian adult women. They are not conscripted, so they have no danger of being sent to die. Are they all protesting? Not even close. No danger, no reason to bother. And if their families contain the abovementioned men, they are either harboring war criminals willingly or with connections, choose to together ignore the genocidal war, when they could have done something.

I think with the mass migration of russian men recently (what was it, 300k+ before borders closed?), we can conclude that russians do not give a fuck if they commit a genocide, as long as they themselves are not in danger of dying. We have an example of this in this very thread by that one russian guy crying that borders are getting closed, when he himself before posted lovingly how Russia is stronk and can do whatever the fuck they want, along his other gems like "burn all gay men alive" on MMO-C. Suddenly he wasn't so brave and cocky after all when the call to arms required his service.

Nothing in this world could stop a revolt that has millions upon millions of civilians protesting and revolting against their corrupt goverment. Russians chose to stay silent and harbor their war criminals.

[ArcanaXVIII]

Nothing in this world could stop a revolt that has millions upon millions of civilians protesting and revolting against their corrupt goverment. Russians chose to stay silent and harbor their war criminals.

Absolutely this. I mean, for contrast, just look at what happened in Iran recently and how it started. Iranian teenage girls have more balls than the entirety of the russian population.

[Saradain]

Let's top it off.

More than often here, people get called edgy keyboard warriors for putting guilt on the vast majority of the russian population.

The fact is, if you, as a russian citizen, didn't do shit before you ended up in Ukraine, you became a threat. Your very presence in Ukraine means the defending forces have to deplete ammunition and manpower to neutralize you. And while they do that, they put themselves to danger of death or war crimes, ergo making you an accomplice to the said war crimes.

And I am gonna sound like the edgy keyboard warrior here now:

Life is not fair.

1) If Finland was in same situation, as the defender, I would either:

- Fight or act as a civilian worker contributing to the defense, risk getting killed, losing my life

- Flee, be demonized as a coward who left his people to die

2) If Finland was in a same situation, as the attacker:

- Be demonized as a war criminal

- Flee, be demonized by the international community for not doing enough

- Fight against my goverment mounting an offensive, genocidal war, get killed in the frontlines or right at home by the goverment troops

3) Resent and condemn russian population on MMO-C for not doing shit against their genocidal nation & goverment

- Get called an edgy keyboard warrior typing things behind a computer screen, in a safe country

Looks like all the options in this example case are variations of "life is unfair". Can't win here.

It is not right that you are given unfair options that all end up in the shitter for you as a russian. But russian population for sure is not immune to criticism in their passivity when they could mount a revolution with more civilians than several other nations combined to put an end to all this. Human life is not valuable in this world and it is not special in grand scale of things in the universe.

Either fight against oppression or be forever associated with it. Iranian girls could do it in their far less impressive numbers, knowing they would just "disappear" and be found dead later on. If you as a russian citizen won't, I'm all up for the same treatment that is given to nazis of old. A hunt still active after 80+ years since the end of the last rise of nazism. Just that it's hard to hunt the russian nazis when you as a citizen chose to harbor them with no intention of giving justice for the innocents that is Ukraine.

[zealo]

I'll just repost this one our resident posters decided to ignore the last time this came up, that are acting like political apathy and keeping your head down no matter what is the height of morality.

Tens of thousands of Russians have died this year trying to deprive another country of their freedom, with many more ending up maimed for life when they survive.

People should absolutely be telling them that when the option is having their own countrymen come home in body bags and missing limbs etc on that scale, when they haven't simply been left to rot out in the open.

Russian political inaction isn't just condemning Ukrainians to the atrocities of allowing this war to go on, but sending tens of thousands of their own countrymen into an early grave in a war of naked fascist aggression.

[qwerty123456]

@Kallisto

I'll add some mental gymnastics we can exercise here.

Russian adult men, who are conscripted or willing go to Ukraine, are going to be war criminals. Russian adult men, who are not conscripted, either are too old or have connections/powerful relatives. This will, very likely lead to them not protesting because they do not need to. So they silently turn their gaze away from the matter when they could have done something.

Russian adult women. They are not conscripted, so they have no danger of being sent to die. Are they all protesting? Not even close. No danger, no reason to bother. And if their families contain the abovementioned men, they are either harboring war criminals willingly or with connections, choose to together ignore the genocidal war, when they could have done something.

I think with the mass migration of russian men recently (what was it, 300k+ before borders closed?), we can conclude that russians do not give a fuck if they commit a genocide, as long as they themselves are not in danger of dying. We have an example of this in this very thread by that one russian guy crying that borders are getting closed, when he himself before posted lovingly how Russia is stronk and can do whatever the fuck they want, along his other gems like "burn all gay men alive" on MMO-C. Suddenly he wasn't so brave and cocky after all when the call to arms required his service.

Nothing in this world could stop a revolt that has millions upon millions of civilians protesting and revolting against their corrupt goverment. Russians chose to stay silent and harbor their war criminals.

Russia is a country where 1/3rd of the people don't even have indoor plumbing, that people fall out of windows constantly, and there is a massive propaganda campaign. You think Backwater Joe from a village of 500 people knows anything other than Putin is saving Ukraine from the Nazis? They basically live in a slightly more free North Korea.

[Saradain]

Russia is a country where 1/3rd of the people don't even have indoor plumbing, that people fall out of windows constantly, and there is a massive propaganda campaign. You think Backwater Joe from a village of 500 people knows anything other than Putin is saving Ukraine from the Nazis? They basically live in a slightly more free North Korea.

Yet the civilian people of Russia are the only ones who can end their own oppression and the subsequent suffering of everyone else around them. No nation or alliance of nations will invade Russia to do it for them, as they would only be met by aggression by the civilians themselves and massive casualties in the invasion and permanent occupation to keep Russia dictator-free. Because the people themselves allow the tyranny and genocide.

Easy for me to say that russian citizens need to risk their own lives, but let's return to that matter when my country is a genocidal dictatorship, protected by its own passive citizens. Don't need a Backwater Joe from a village of 500 when it was already stated Moscow region has 20 million people alone.

Russians chose their own nations form of governance by their own passivity. And for that reason alone, everyone else suffers. The difference between North Korea and Russia is that the former can hardly hurt others outside their country. While Russia keeps doing the same shit every century, forever protected by their own population.

[Corvus]

Belarus's foreign minister is reported to have died 'suddenly'.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ta-2022-11-26/

Given the regime he works for that could mean anything. Reportedly he was a bit more open to working with the west than his masters.

On top of that there were a number of rumours swirling around that russia was getting desperate enough to take out lukashenko, install a puppet, and force the Belarus army to take part in the war.

[Iphie]

Belarus's foreign minister is reported to have died 'suddenly'.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ta-2022-11-26/

Given the regime he works for that could mean anything. Reportedly he was a bit more open to working with the west than his masters.

On top of that there were a number of rumours swirling around that russia was getting desperate enough to take out lukashenko, install a puppet, and force the Belarus army to take part in the war.

If the latter is true then Lukashenko would do well to get an exit strategy going. (One that doesn't involve running to Uncle Vova.)

[Mazza]

Belarus's foreign minister is reported to have died 'suddenly'.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ta-2022-11-26/

Given the regime he works for that could mean anything. Reportedly he was a bit more open to working with the west than his masters.

On top of that there were a number of rumours swirling around that russia was getting desperate enough to take out lukashenko, install a puppet, and force the Belarus army to take part in the war.

Just HOW would they to force the Belarus army to do anything though? Lukashenko couldn't, some other Russian puppet isn't going to be able to do so either.

[Iphie]

Just HOW would they to force the Belarus army to do anything though? Lukashenko couldn't, some other Russian puppet isn't going to be able to do so either.

Luka DIDN'T want to and so didn't order an invasion, another puppet might actually give the order to invade and then we'll see how much Belarusian bluster is worth.

[Kallisto]

Luka DIDN'T want to and so didn't order an invasion, another puppet might actually give the order to invade and then we'll see how much Belarusian bluster is worth.

Even then with what equipment? Russia has essentially stripped Belarus bare in the last couple of months due to their own shortage.

Honestly the will they, won't they conundrum is actually best for Russia. It's not February anymore and Ukraine pretty much has the entire border fortified.

The Belarus army is ill equipped, less trained and worse moral than the Russian one. If I were Putin I think I'd rather have the North Korean "volunteers."

[zealo]

Luka DIDN'T want to and so didn't order an invasion, another puppet might actually give the order to invade and then we'll see how much Belarusian bluster is worth.

The Belarusian people have shown themselves that they'll actually jump on an opportunity to try to free themselves if it should present itself.

I'm sure Lukashenko's opinion of "not wanting to" is highly motivated by not inadvertently helping to engineer a situation that sees his ass being perforated by a bayonet in the streets of Minsk.

[Iphie]

Even then with what equipment? Russia has essentially stripped Belarus bare in the last couple of months due to their own shortage.

Honestly the will they, won't they conundrum is actually best for Russia. It's not February anymore and Ukraine pretty much has the entire border fortified.

The Belarus army is ill equipped, less trained and worse moral than the Russian one. If I were Putin I think I'd rather have the North Korean "volunteers."

That is another question, and I am aware of the stripping bare of the Belarusian army.

I mean I don't realistically see it happening for those reasons but putin might try it nevertheless, I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt anymore about not doing the most stupid thing possible.

[Corvus]

It doesn't make a lot of sense, no, but pootie is getting increasingly desperate. He doesn't care if they are poorly trained and lacking equipment, he just wants another 60,000 soldiers to throw human wave style against Ukraine. And if there are protests? Well, the massive russian state security apparatus is still around, untouched by the war. They might be no good against soldiers but they are good at beating up civilians.

[Gabriel]

None of the shit russia does makes any sense.

[Slant]

I'd just apply it for double citizenships, and not go for people with visas or residency permits.

Double citizenships should not exist. I detest my Government playing along with it. You can only serve one master.

[Iphie]

Double citizenships should not exist. I detest my Government playing along with it. You can only serve one master.

That's some medieval thinking there. I literally can't wait till I'm a dual citizen. (As soon as I have time to study for it ...)

[Cthulhu 2020]

Double citizenships should not exist. I detest my Government playing along with it. You can only serve one master.

Seeing your country as your "master" is a really weird subservient take.