Russian invasion of Ukraine

[YUPPIE]

There absolutely is reasonably doubt on MAD. The hypothesis that Russia likely struggled maintaining their arsenal because of the immense cost is not new (especially considering START and New START). The level of corruption shown and the effect it has had on military preparedness for Russia absolutely makes one question how much of the Russian nuclear arsenal is actually operative. Their military complex seems to have largely been performative, spending money on expensive trailers for Wunderwaffe that never really existed. Otherwise, where are they?

Look I don’t want to be repetitive since this talk was exhausted, but the US secret services are basically omniscient; they know everything out there. If Russia’s WMD capabilities were as doubtful as you say, no doubt the US would know. And at that point, what’d hold them back from not only wiping out the Russians in Ukraine, but also invading Moscow? I mean Russia is the US’ mortal enemy, after all.

The real reason is there is indeed some degree of serious threat from Russia they hold the cards to that prevents the West from doing that.

[Edge-]

but the US secret services are basically omniscient

Fuckin rofl, no they fuckin aren't.

[DarkTZeratul]

Fuckin rofl, no they fuckin aren't.

They do have a vested interest in letting people think they are, though, so... Good job Yuppie on falling for their propaganda.

[YUPPIE]

Fuckin rofl, no they fuckin aren't.

They are actually really scary when you even read the silver lining. Remember when Clinton said the US is just playing nice with the Saudis but can pull the “stick” at any given time? Even now, the US is occasionally dialing Putin and telling him *something* that prevents him from using WMDs or doing worse, likely them already knowing where he is hiding at any given time. That's why he grumbles as he just sticks to conventional warfare.

I have faith in the US largely because of their intelligence and espionage networks to keep our country safe and a cut above.

[Edge-]

They are actually really scary when you even read the silver lining.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obam...ry?id=25879349

I'm here once again trying to talk you back to reality, reminding you of that time the USSS let an armed former-criminal into an elevator with the President of the United States. I don't even know where you conjured up this notion unless you've been drinking more heavily than usual.

Remember when Clinton said the US is just playing nice with the Saudis but can pull the “stick” at any given time?

Not specifically, but what relevance does this have?

Even now, the US is occasionally dialing Putin and telling him *something* that prevents him from using WMDs or doing worse, likely them already knowing where he is hiding at any given time.

They are? Surely you have documented evidence of this that's not, "The bottle told me."

[Corvus]

I believe the US spends more on just maintaining its nuclear arsenal than russia spends on its military, including its nukes. Nukes are crazy expensive. And Russia claims to have as many as the US. Yes they have a lot, but those numbers don't add up. Through in corruption and russia's arsenal is probably not as extensive or well maintained as they claim.

[YUPPIE]

I believe the US spends more on just maintaining its nuclear arsenal than russia spends on its military, including its nukes. Nukes are crazy expensive. And Russia claims to have as many as the US. Yes they have a lot, but those numbers don't add up. Through in corruption and russia's arsenal is probably not as extensive or well maintained as they claim.

then just please tell me why NATO and the US don't go in if there's no meaningful risk to them.

Because if Russia has no nukes, all they have is that shitty army and legion of mercs getting destroyed in Ukraine as it is. They would stand no chance and this would've ended a long time ago.

[Edge-]

then just please tell me why NATO and the US don't go in if there's no meaningful risk to them.

Because that's a war crime. You know, starting an unprovoked invasion of another country.

You know, that thing Russia is doing right now.

Seriously, stop drinking.

[YUPPIE]

Because that's a war crime. You know, starting an unprovoked invasion of another country.

You know, that thing Russia is doing right now.

Seriously, stop drinking.

No, not into Moscow. That one was purely hypothetical.

I mean putting boots into Ukraine and putting an end to Russia's invasion there.

[Saradain]

No, not into Moscow. That one was purely hypothetical.

I mean putting boots into Ukraine and putting an end to Russia's invasion there.

Because in the end USA needs to follow its own interests as well in the great game of politics. Getting rid of Nazi Russia's capability for a small price is the best outcome they could have ever dreamed of.

Ukraine is in this for its right to exist, to protect home and family.

The rest of the nations probably have more tactical reason, with some altruism in the mix depending on the country.

And no matter how great US-provided equipment could be, any falling into russian hands means they donated superior technology for a terrorist state. Probably that is why the better variants of Abrams going to Ukraine are still lacking something a media called "super armor mix". And if USA went straight to Ukraine with its standing army, the likelihood of american equipment getting destroyed in the tussle gets higher. The chance is less if some of Ukraine's equipment is american, not everything ie in case of US counter-invasion.

[YUPPIE]

Because in the end USA needs to follow its own interests as well in the great game of politics. Getting rid of Nazi Russia's capability for a small price is the best outcome they could have ever dreamed of.

Ukraine is in this for its right to exist, to protect home and family.

The rest of the nations probably have more tactical reason, with some altruism in the mix depending on the country.

And no matter how great US-provided equipment could be, any falling into russian hands means they donated superior technology for a terrorist state. Probably that is why the better variants of Abrams going to Ukraine are still lacking something a media called "super armor mix". And if USA went straight to Ukraine with its standing army, the likelihood of american equipment getting destroyed in the tussle gets higher. The chance is less if some of Ukraine's equipment is american, not everything ie in case of US counter-invasion.

ok that's a relatively satisfying answer even if it makes every other country sound self-serving.

It's also disturbing AF you just implied there are people out there (Russians) that would rape, torture, and murder uncensored before our very eyes and we don't immediately jump to the conclusion of "bring those evil fuckers to justice" and instead go "let's just observe for a while"

[Saradain]

Oh, and USA just going to Ukraine right now would give infinite shitposting supply for russian shills to make it appear like NATO started a war. And that includes gullible dumb-as-rocks nations in the world who think Russia is a friend.

[DarkTZeratul]

It's also disturbing AF you just implied there are people out there (Russians) that would rape, torture, and murder uncensored before our very eyes and we don't immediately jump to the conclusion of "bring those evil fuckers to justice" and instead go "let's just observe for a while"

It's reality. We are not the world police. It is not our job to go around fighting every nation that does bad things to people.

[Saradain]

ok that's a relatively satisfying answer even if it makes every other country sound self-serving.

It's also disturbing AF you just implied there are people out there (Russians) that would rape, torture, and murder uncensored before our very eyes and we don't immediately jump to the conclusion of "bring those evil fuckers to justice" and instead go "let's just observe for a while"

After the show that World War 2 was (and Vietnam, Afghanistan for US), I don't think many nations would happily take part in a war like this. Far better political stability to provide weaponry for other nation to defend itself, than participate directly and telling the men of your country they are going to a war abroad.

[Edge-]

It's also disturbing AF you just implied there are people out there (Russians) that would rape, torture, and murder uncensored before our very eyes and we don't immediately jump to the conclusion of "bring those evil fuckers to justice" and instead go "let's just observe for a while"

YUPPIE, when are you volunteering to fight the good fight?

[Gorsameth]

After the show that World War 2 was (and Vietnam, Afghanistan for US), I don't think many nations would happily take part in a war like this. Far better political stability to provide weaponry for other nation to defend itself, than participate directly and telling the men of your country they are going to a war abroad.

Iraq, and especially Afghanistan wasn't just the US. Plenty of nations took part with boots on the ground and had to suffer from the backlash of soldiers dying half the world away. While Ukraine is obviously closer and have has a bigger impact on Europe the same issue applies. Its a lot easier to fight wars via proxies where your own soldiers are not coming back in body bags.

[Kallisto]

Also should be added that Ukraine beating Russia with its own army and without NATO being directly involved actually would be more beneficial for the Ukraine psyche and how it looks on the world stage than if NATO did engage.

[Yunru]

So news here reports of France and Dutch may donate their fighter jets..... not sure if they will be much of any use due to a zone being AA heaven. Unless they used those to strike russan force buildup in Belorus as they may attack main city again.

If war lasts to long, Ukraine may run out of soldiers/ammo as Russa can just trow conscript out of their 146 milion population. (ukraine numbers are on 43,79 mil)
So it makes sense to donate as much weapons/support as possible to increase as much casualtys on russan side and hope for country political colapse.

There is a chance we may see a creations of a new smaller countrys in future:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_Russia

[YUPPIE]

If war lasts to long, Ukraine may run out of soldiers/ammo as Russa can just trow conscript out of their 146 milion population.

every time I suggested Russia could overwhelm Ukraine through number advantage and zerg rush tactics, I've been called insane and that Ukraine could supposedly mow down every last one of those 146 million fodder if Russian tactics mostly consist of rushing from the front.

[Edge-]

every time I suggested Russia could overwhelm Ukraine through number advantage and zerg rush tactics, I've been called insane and that Ukraine could supposedly mow down every last one of those 146 million fodder if Russian tactics mostly consist of rushing from the front.

Eyo how's Russia supposed to get millions of troops trained and sent to the front lines all at once? Aren't they still struggling with basic logistics with their current forces?