Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Sunseeker]

If you're doing mine clearing, I'd imagine you'd find some incentive to do a proper job. One simple incentive if nothing else.

If the choice is death by mine or death by your captors by mine, then you don't have an incentives to help your captors, ie: do a good job.

And as Gorsameth already pointed out, knowing your captors plan to kill you incentivizes you to fight harder and to the death.

So aside from satisfying your bloodlust, using POWs as living minesweepers helps noone.

[Azadina]

If the choice is death by mine or death by your captors by mine, then you don't have an incentives to help your captors, ie: do a good job.

And as Gorsameth already pointed out, knowing your captors plan to kill you incentivizes you to fight harder and to the death.

So aside from satisfying your bloodlust, using POWs as living minesweepers helps noone.

As opposed to Ukrainians dying as minesweepers helps....Russia? Nice. How bloodlustly terrible of me for not wanting them to die for Russias doing.

[Shadowferal]

If you want to find out how much harder a man will fight then don't give him a way out. Death by mine isn't preferable to a fight to the death.

[Azadina]

If you want to find out how much harder a man will fight then don't give him a way out. Death by mine isn't preferable to a fight to the death.

It would only reinforce them being the bad guy willingly. Otherwise they'd consider something other than killing maximum amount of innocent people before kicking the bucket, if they know they're about to either way. Also, mine clearing isn't deadly to every single person doing it, it's kind of up to them. Fighting to the death is kind of deadly to all who attempt, as the description suggests.

[Canpinter]

I'm curious how you plan to force unwilling pows to clear minefields, like spell it out what do you plan to do to them if they say no.

[Veggie50]

What others? We were talking captured ruZZki invaders, weren't we? They ARE the ones who have been doing the "deeds of others" in Ukraine. Also whether they think they're invading, murdering pillagers, doesn't concern me one bit. They are, as long as they crossed the border into Ukraine to do so. They could have picked the "let's not go there" option, but did not.



It wasn't a question of what you ideally want to happen or not. It was simply picking either innocent group of people for dangerous and fatal task, or the group who are at fault for it in the first place. One or the other, there's no option three in sight. You're picking the innocents because something something law, geneva, morality, something war is shitty etc. How nice for them right? Heartwarming I'm sure.

Shortsighted =\

Lots of russians going into ukraine with a gun to their head, and lots of those that surrender first chance they get. Let’s send them into a minefield solely for being Russian.

At which point, Putins rhetoric about this being a fight for the survival of Russia becomes actual truth.

[Azadina]

I'm curious how you plan to force unwilling pows to clear minefields, like spell it out what do you plan to do to them if they say no.

Didn't realize prisoners of war can pick and choose their own job opportunities so freely.

Shortsighted =\

Lots of russians going into ukraine with a gun to their head, and lots of those that surrender first chance they get. Let’s send them into a minefield solely for being Russian.

At which point, Putins rhetoric about this being a fight for the survival of Russia becomes actual truth.

You mean gun in their hands? Or are you saying they go unarmed into a war? Also, no. Survival of Russia has fuck all to do with anything that happens inside Ukraines borders. Don't even try.

[Canpinter]

Didn't realize prisoners of war can pick and choose their own job opportunities so freely.

Don't dodge the question, how to you plan to make unwilling pows dig mines out of the ground if they say no ? And don't be vague spell it out.

[Kralljin]

Didn't realize prisoners of war can pick and choose their own job opportunities so freely.

Okay, what else they're going to do if a POW says no?

1. Lock them up (which arguably preferable to mine field clearing duty)
2. threaten them by force (a.k.a. shooting them)

honestly, between mine field clearing duty and being shot, i'm not sure if would argue with a guy that chooses the bullet over that, because a bullet to the heart / skull is at least a quick death.
Bleeding out on a mine field, yeah, not so much.

[Edge-]

Are people really talking about seriously using POW's to clear mines?

Don't get me wrong, I get the inclination. Their team set up the mines, they should take the risk etc. but like...yo that's such a monumentally stupid idea for reasons others have already pointed out.

The goal is to make being a PoW not a nightmare scenario - that's how you get people willing to blow themselves up and take some enemies with them rather than be captured. Humane treatment of PoW's is both morally right, and usually strategically right as well - especially when your enemy is often a bunch of ill-equipped and ill-trained losers. Deal with their other crimes separately, but do not create a situation where surrender is viewed as a non-option.

And to Canpinter's point, how do you force them to do the work? Put a gun to their head and order them? What if they still refuse? Tie them up and roll them forward with a large stick or something?

[Azadina]

Don't dodge the question, how to you plan to make unwilling pows dig mines out of the ground if they say no ? And don't be vague spell it out.

Measures would depend on the persons conviction obviously. One might be convinced with a happy meal, and another wouldn't do it regardless of what happens, and anything in between. If you demand precise answers, then you go ahead and give a precise scenario.

Number of refusals also play a factor.

[Iphie]

Measures would depend on the persons conviction obviously. One might be convinced with a happy meal, and another wouldn't do it regardless of what happens, and anything in between. If you demand precise answers, then you go ahead and give a precise scenario.

Number of refusals also play a factor.

I see we've left the realm of realism and entered coo-coo land.

[Azadina]

I see we've left the realm of realism and entered coo-coo land.

The point was quite simply that they are not all going to be the same level of absolutely no. Since the word choice needed further explaining that it wasn't literal McDonalds happy meal shipped straight from Americas.

[Rozz]

Cease this line of discussion immediately and switch to something more productive. Mistreatment of POWs isn't up for debate.

[The Stormbringer]

Cease this line of discussion immediately and switch to something more productive. Mistreatment of POWs isn't up for debate.

Thank you! That whole line of discussion was seriously fucked up.

On Topic: Any recent news on new equipment Ukraine is likely to be getting or putting into service soon?

[Corvus]

Thank you! That whole line of discussion was seriously fucked up.

On Topic: Any recent news on new equipment Ukraine is likely to be getting or putting into service soon?

Abrams should start arriving next month, f16 training looks like it is finally happening and it looks like Germany might send Taurus cruise missiles.

[alach]

Thank you! That whole line of discussion was seriously fucked up.

On Topic: Any recent news on new equipment Ukraine is likely to be getting or putting into service soon?

Glad you asked!

Bulgaria’s government approves draft agreement on giving old armoured vehicles to Ukraine

August 4, 2023 The Sofia Globe staff Russia, Ukraine
Bulgaria’s government has approved a draft agreement between the country’s Interior Minister and Ukraine on donating armoured personnel carriers to Ukraine, Bulgarian National Radio said on August 4.

The move, involving about 100 armoured vehicles acquired for the police during Bulgaria’s communist era, was proposed in mid-July and approved by Parliament on July 21.

The provision of the vehicles was agreed on during Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s visit to Sofia.

Deal struck to send German-made Leopard 1 tanks from Belgium to Ukraine

BRUSSELS, Aug 8 (Reuters) - Dozens of second-hand Leopard 1 tanks that once belonged to Belgium have been bought by another European country for Ukrainian forces fighting Russia's invasion, the arms trader who did the deal said Tuesday.

A defence source told Reuters that the German government was paying for 32 of the Leopard 1 tanks to be restored and sent to Ukraine and that this was part of a support package for Ukraine that Germany announced at the NATO summit in Vilnius in July.

Also from Germany...

Sure Sounds Like Germany Is Giving Ukraine the Mighty Taurus Cruise Missile

On Monday, a Ukrainian diplomat suggested “key parliamentary factions”—including those in Scholz’s own SPD party—have reached a “consensus” in support of transferring some of Germany’s KEPD-350 Taurus stealth cruise missiles to Ukraine to aid in its struggle against invading Russian forces. Ukraine first formally requested the air-launched German-Swedish weapon in May.

Abrams Tanks Finally Set To Roar In Ukraine! US OKs Transfer Of 31 M1-A1 Abrams MBTs To Fight Russia

The United States has approved the first shipment of Abrams main battle tanks for Ukraine, with a scheduled arrival by early fall. This was announced by Army Acquisition Chief Doug Bush on August 7.

Following a comprehensive refurbishment spanning several months, the 31 designated Abrams tanks intended for Ukraine have been readied and are now positioned for imminent shipment.

I'm sure theres more, but thats just the headlines from this week.

Found something else...

Ukraine Is Reloading

Ukraine is set to get a much-needed shot in the arm in the form of more U.S. military aid. The Biden administration has unveiled its $13 billion proposal to restock weapons for Kyiv. Lawmakers got a briefing on Thursday afternoon about the plans, a congressional aide and another person familiar with the plan told SitRep.

The money could prevent the U.S. administration from pillaging the couch cushions of the Pentagon’s accounts to send more weapons to Ukraine. In June, the U.S. Department of Defense acknowledged that it had overvalued the weapons it had already sent to Ukraine by $6.2 billion, giving the agency another lifeline to send more assistance as the money from Biden’s previous aid package had waned.

Not in time? But it may not be enough, and some Republicans are frustrated that the administration’s proposal is too little, too late. Ukraine is burning through up to 7,000 artillery shells per day—a number that has likely shot up amid the military counteroffensive that formally kicked off in June—and the United States and Europe haven’t caught up to the demand.

And in todays' reminder of reasons to hate Russia...

Ukraine updates: Russian missiles strike hotel used by UN

A Russian strike on Zaporizhzhia caused damaged to a hotel frequented by NGO workers. Meanwhile, a group of Western nations condemned Russia's support for separatists in Georgia. Follow DW for more.

A Russian strike on "civilian infrastructure" on Thursday has been confirmed to have damaged a hotel in Zaporizhzhia used by United Nations staff.

One person was killed and 16 others were injured

Russia’s latest effort to sway young minds: High-school textbooks praising the conflict in Ukraine

Russia is ramping up its efforts to ensure even its youngest citizens fall in line with the official narrative when it comes to the war in Ukraine.

The country’s Ministry of Education this week unveiled new history textbooks with sections about what it calls the “special military operation” in Ukraine, the annexation of Crimea and Western sanctions. Critics say the move is a part of a sustained effort to indoctrinate school children and stifle any independent thinking.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has always maintained that Moscow’s unprovoked aggression against Ukraine is an effort to liberate the country from a “Nazi regime” and Western influence. He even went as far as suggesting there was no such thing as an independent Ukraine, insisting instead that the country has traditionally been part of Russia and that Russians and Ukrainians are “one people.”

[Edge-]

https://www.reddit.com/r/StupidFood/...is_where_meat/

If this video is to be believed, I guess the Russian army is putting some of their troops on a water-only diet. Grains of salt as I haven't verified anything with this, but it would check out with much of what we've seen elsewhere in the war.

[Flarelaine]

https://www.reddit.com/r/StupidFood/...is_where_meat/

If this video is to be believed, I guess the Russian army is putting some of their troops on a water-only diet. Grains of salt as I haven't verified anything with this, but it would check out with much of what we've seen elsewhere in the war.

I recall a story where a WWII POW said the only time they had meat was when they jumped the Russian soldier working the pot and dumped him in.

[YUPPIE]

Grave News (< link if red text is confusing)

Any suspicion that these mystery fires and bombings in Moscow were some inside-Putin job has been debunked, as Ukraine warns Moscow residents to expect more attacks; this all but confirms Ukraine is behind the incidents.

Kyiv has warned those living in Moscow to expect more attacks, adding the Russian capital’s air defenses appear incapable of protecting its citizens as the drone war between the two countries continues to escalate.

After a dramatic increase in Ukrainian attacks in recent weeks, Andriy Yusov, spokesperson for Ukrainian military intelligence (HUR), told Kyiv Post, that the “the concept of security is increasingly distant from the residents of Moscow.”

“He added: “The whole world continues to see that the Russian defense system and the country – which claims a leading role in the arms market – is ineffective, outdated, and cannot adequately respond to modern challenges.”

Yusov said this is a symptom of President Putin’s leadership which “continues to lead to the degradation of the state management system.”

He added: “Perhaps this trend will lead the residents of Moscow to some correct conclusions – whether or not to believe Russian television and Russian propaganda, and whether or not to continue to support the criminal regime.”

Yusov’s comments came shortly after an explosion was reported on the Karamyshevskaya embankment near Moscow on Friday morning.