Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Edge-]

How silly are these people to think Russia needs to "justify" the Ukraine invasion after having been blamed for invading it for years?

Yo, didn't Putin admit that the "little green men" were in fact Russian soldiers and were blocking the Ukrainian military in Crimea? And wasn't their Minister of Defense trolling about it with cat analogies?

[Yadryonych]

Russia has invaded Ukraine (Crimea and donbass). It wants to take further action (as its a scumbag imperialist power).

Yeah but is anything else on the news?

[Forogil]

Yeah but is anything else on the news?

You mean apart from Omicron, BoJo, Djokovic, Tesla accepting DogeCoin, Jan 6th, Prince Andrew, Danish leaks?

No, apart from that and all the other news there's nothing else on the news.

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Oh, I missed that REvil have allegedly been arrested. If Russia actually goes after cybercriminals that would be good - but I don't know how it matches with the cyberattack on Ukraine.

[Shalcker]

US claims Russia planning ‘false-flag’ operation to justify Ukraine invasion

Not a new claim.

People float those often enough on both sides.

Have been for years.

Let's repeat response of Politico: "offers no evidence of provocative accusations".

Great for clickbait though!

[Shalcker]

Nah, Russia won't attack Ukraine and "Russia is planning X" is not worthy of discussion.

What I think will happen is Russia will place rockets capable of delivering nukes (but not necessary nukes themselves, rockets alone should be enough for US to shit their pants) in Venezuela. That seems like a more logical answer to NATO expansion. Don't want to consider security of Russia, then why should Russia consider security of US?

If that will happen it is unlikely to happen immediately.

Some deployments to Kaliningrad as usual can be done much faster.

[Forogil]

Russia has invaded Ukraine (Crimea and donbass). It wants to take further action (as its a scumbag imperialist power).

Yes, and Russia used a pro-Russian demonstrations, and confusing referendums to justify Crimea and Donbass. It's likely some similar pretext will be used the next time.

Although the referendums weren't as blatantly one-sided as the one in Austria after the Nazi-German Anschluss, it is still the same idea of using the "will of the people" to justify imperialism; similarly as dictatorships use a fig-leaf of elections - no sane person trusts them, but the apologists can still claim they are democracies.

[Ulmita]

The issue here can be summarized as:
Russia: Please no more NATO expansion, we're afraid.
NATO: Stfu, we will do as we please.

Keep in mind ladies and gents, that Russia has tried joining NATO in the past, and got declined in more than one occasion.

[Shalcker]

Yes, and Russia used a pro-Russian demonstrations, and confusing referendums to justify Crimea and Donbass. It's likely some similar pretext will be used the next time.

Although the referendums weren't as blatantly one-sided as the one in Austria after the Nazi-German Anschluss, it is still the same idea of using the "will of the people" to justify imperialism; similarly as dictatorships use a fig-leaf of elections - no sane person trusts them, but the apologists can still claim they are democracies.

Yes, similar to US hiding behind "those countries make their own decisions" to justify their own imperialism in NATO expansion.

[Forogil]

Yes, similar to US hiding behind "those countries make their own decisions" to justify their own imperialism in NATO expansion.

I must have missed the US invasions of the Baltic states, Poland, east Germany, etc.

Or are these the alternative facts that have become popular, like Putin claiming that Russia tried to join NATO? Or is he getting old and senile?

Added: However, the main point was that Russia have used these things as pretexts for imperialism, similarly as Nazi-Germany used the pretext of a referendum for the Anschluss (and the pretext of protecting their brethren in other countries). The claim that Russia will repeat their previous pattern therefore makes sense.

[Shalcker]

I must have missed the US invasions of the Baltic states, Poland, east Germany, etc.

Is it only imperialism with invasions? Well, US did use their troops later in their invasion of Afghanistan.

Austria you mentioned above welcomed German troops too.

Imperialist expansion comes in many ways.

Or are these the alternative facts that have become popular, like Putin claiming that Russia tried to join NATO?

Russia did try to join NATO multiple times, or set up cooperation in other security projects, it's silly to deny it.

[Shalcker]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia–NATO_relations

Yes, if you refuse to talk about it then no "serious" talks ever happen, duh.

I don't think i've seen a single expert saying "Russia doesn't want to be in NATO" in 90's or 2000's.

"Russia isn't going to be subservient member of NATO and will clash with others" or "Russia wants to undermine NATO from within", sure, those existed.

[Easo]

Nah, Russia won't attack Ukraine and "Russia is planning X" is not worthy of discussion.

What I think will happen is Russia will place rockets capable of delivering nukes (but not necessary nukes themselves, rockets alone should be enough for US to shit their pants) in Venezuela. That seems like a more logical answer to NATO expansion. Don't want to consider security of Russia, then why should Russia consider security of US?

A good example when poster has no idea what he is talking about:

1. Why would Russia do that? Venezuela (and other possible candidates) is, let's put it mildly, hardly stable. Yet another big protest might turn into another revolution and topple the goverment. What then?
2. Why would these countries want said rockets putting them in the target sight of USA, what do they gain from it? This is not USSR who gave billions to Cuba in exchange, Russia can't afford to do that. Pissing in America's shoes is fun, but what is the practical benefit from that?
3. This in turns means more USA missiles in Europe closer to Russia.

Yes, similar to US hiding behind "those countries make their own decisions" to justify their own imperialism in NATO expansion.

Yet another case of Russian imperialism and chauvinism - people like Shalcker still do not understand that allies are not subjects/vassals.

[Ulmita]

Jake, can you address the Deputy Foreign Minister’s comments suggesting that the — that Russia could deploy forces — or wouldn’t rule out deploying forces in Latin America? Is that something that the U.S. is concerned about? Is that something that came up in those discussions?

MR. SULLIVAN: I’m not going to respond to bluster in the public commentary. That wasn’t raised in the discussions at the Strategic Stability Dialogue. If Russia were to move in that direction, we would deal with it decisively.

Source: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-...nuary-13-2022/

When Russia is saying the same thing about missile deployments all over their border, they are the bad guys, the aggressor, the evil ones... Where is this world heading to? Fucking brainwashed people everywhere...

[Ulmita]

You said they tried to join. They didn’t in any serious way. Why shift the goalposts instead of admitting Putin’s full of shit?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...on-in-his-rule

And that's only one of the occasions that they approached NATO

[Yadryonych]

Yet another case of Russian imperialism and chauvinism - people like Shalcker still do not understand that allies are not subjects/vassals.

The fact that a nation was allowed to send a platoon to Iraq so that they could be guarding a toilet doesn't make it much of an ally. The same way fleas are allies of the dog they are riding.

[Mayhem]

Which point doesn't make sense to you?

It is quite interesting to compare WW2 myths in different cultures.

The lend-lease program started in 1941 and supported the USSR with 17.5 mio tonns of equipment. You think a west that supported Hitler fighting USSR by proxy would've made it harder for Hitler, ultimately resulting in his defeat?

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Austria you mentioned above welcomed German troops too.

God damn it, read a book, please. I mean, it took Hitler years of propaganda and the British to ignore Austria for that to happen.

[Machismo]

It's hilarious that people still want to justify the Russian government in all of this.

They are the bad guys.

We know they are the bad guys, because they've already fucking done it.

[Dezerte]

All that’s coming through is a logo. And when they have an ulterior motive… not exactly good faith shit there.

Excerpt from that article (link):
"Vladimir Putin wanted Russia to join Nato but did not want his country to have to go through the usual application process and stand in line “with a lot of countries that don’t matter”, according to a former secretary general of the transatlantic alliance."

So it doesn't exactly paint Russia in a good light anyway.

[Yadryonych]

All that’s coming through is a logo. And when they have an ulterior motive… not exactly good faith shit there.

Nice to see your goalposts are moveable too. Quite mobile in this particular case

It's hilarious that people still want to justify the Russian government in all of this.

They are the bad guys.

We know they are the bad guys, because they've already fucking done it.

That's my point. Russia has faced so many accusation that she shouldn't even care anymore

[Shalcker]

Yet another case of Russian imperialism and chauvinism - people like Shalcker still do not understand that allies are not subjects/vassals.

Were people in Crimea subjects or vassals when they did their referendum?