Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Poopymonster]

Nothing in our 20 year drone war that has blown up schools/hospitals/weddings has been covered anywhere near with this fervor, you must know that. It doesn't get clicks or have a nice clean narrative like a war of aggression.

It don't get much play when the US does it, because it's become a common occurrence, moreso to ourselves. How many Lone Wolf attacks on churches or schools before it loses it's edge? We barely do anything about our own people killing our own, why would the US killing people elsewhere get much play when the killing of our own people is just another Tuesday? Besides #thoughtsandprayers.

[Gaidax]

It's going to make it a massive headache for them to access it, however, and the utter collapse of the Russian economy is going to make earning more money for them harder.

Hah, don't you worry about them - they have so much money, they won't be able to spend it in their lifetimes even if they go ham.

They siphoned off Russia's wealth for decades and moved it to various rabbit holes and sham offshore businesses and holdings long, long ago.

Frankly if you'd want to hurt them - you need to go after them and their families personally - but that's not really happening aside form some specific big names and even then - their families are just fine, all them kids studying and living in Europe and so on and enjoying the high life.

[snebb]

I think people here underestimate the lengths said oligarchs go for to hide their wealth.

It's like that BBC piece where the point was raised that sanctioning Putin's assets biggest trouble is finding said assets to begin with.

His pals follow the suit.

It would also be poor form to underestimate how difficult this is going to make things for them. The more 'havens' that implement these sanctions, the more difficult moving it around becomes, regardless of how well it's currently hidden.

[Vampiregenesis]

He's struggling to beat Ukraine, whom he probably had expected to surrender by now if not just completely roll over on day one.

If anything, the Russian military would look more likely right now to simply evaporate in the event of war with NATO. NATOs member nations aren't broke like Russia is.

I don't think he gives the 100%.

This war will sure be a big lesson for him, his troops have real combat experience now compared to the nato ones who haven't experienced something like this, his tactics/strategies will improve. His army will be more determined against nato compared to Ukraine. I believe if he capitulates ukraine quickly, he will have the time to fix the economy after these sanctions and then russia will be pretty much immune to further sanctions. If ww3 happens, he will also have allies who share the same vision such as china/iran/brazil/north korea, so more army for him.

Don't forget the soviet army was a joke during the nazi invasion but then improved massively and won, you can expect the same here, they are more war ready now and will hit without mercy. People in Ukraine never imagined that they will experience this and it happened, so who knows.

We are in for a shitshow pretty soon.

[Gaidax]

It would also be poor form to underestimate how difficult this is going to make things for them. The more 'havens' that implement these sanctions, the more difficult moving it around becomes, regardless of how well it's currently hidden.

I know if will blow your mind, but if you think the money they have in these havens is actually under their name or under names of companies they are directly involved in - you're a bit naïve.

This shit is an art - don't you worry about them, they have contingencies for contingencies. These people are not stupid at all, they know very well what Russia is and what could happen eventually.

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I don't think he gives the 100%.

No he doesn't, because if he did - it would be bombing of Dresden magnitude of destruction already three days ago.

But again it's apples to oranges. It's one thing to poke and pound a bunch of guys left to fend off for themselves and whole Europe + US with NATO.

[Kathranis]

Two different wars.. although US have very strict rules of engagement, the nature of civil casualties was due to high insurgency and how aggressively terrorists were manipulating civilian populous for their own gain. This is not absolute statement.

A lot of that is horseshit excuses to justify acting on bad intel and indiscriminate attacks. The Russians are making the exact same excuses right now to justify the civilian casualties happening in Ukraine.

[JohnBrown1917]

Eh, communism era leaders didn't face any repercussions, unless rekt by their competition in the party. And Putler is from that era. He is pretty safe, unless his surrounding decides he is going overboard.

Putin is closer to the tsars of 1917 than any leader of the USSR... and they went away during WWI.

[snebb]

I know if will blow your mind, but if you think the money they have in these havens is actually under their name or under names of companies they are directly involved in - you're a bit naïve.

This shit is an art - don't you worry about them, they have contingencies for contingencies. These people are not stupid at all, they know very well what Russia is and what could happen eventually.

If you think large/significant movements during these days/weeks, when the Russian economy is on it's knees (I know you'll tell me it isn't), isn't going to draw any unwanted attention, then you really can't be calling anyone naïve.
But, ye, cool.

[Shrouded]

Finland's political parties are meeting tomorrow to discuss the updated security situation since the Russian invasion. On the agenda is discussing a membership in NATO - which of course doesn't mean that they will actually apply to join, but whatever Putin tried to accomplish with this, it's having the exact opposite effect.

[Gaidax]

If you think large/significant movements during these days/weeks, when the Russian economy is on it's knees (I know you'll tell me it isn't), isn't going to draw any unwanted attention, then you really can't be calling anyone naïve.
But, ye, cool.

Again, what does it have to do with said oligarchs?

Don't worry, their assets are all safe and secure. Heck, they may yet profit out of it filling the blanks in energy corporations and buying out assets for pennies.

It's like every crisis - huge opportunity for them right there. EU/US seizing single-digit % of their wealth they manage to find is not exactly going to stop them there.


Heck the irony of it is that energy prices going to skyrocket and its a good chunk of their wealth. I am shitting you not - they might end up legit getting richer out of it.

[PC2]

I question the point and the need for such reports/news/posts.

Maybe, if Russia puts the same effort into reducing collateral damage as the West then it does seem like an overly-selective form of criticism. Unintended collateral damage should not be used as an emotional weapon if the decision makers are genuinely putting effort into avoiding that kind of damage.

I start to worry that black days are ahead.

Do you guys worry at all?

What would you need to see in order to have confidence in your society? Did you say you were European? For some reason we live in a world where Russia(and China) have too much confidence and Europe has too little, it's backwards...

[formerShandalay]

According to Amnesty International almost 6000 people have been areested in the last few days in Russia for protesting against the war.
Really, between this and all the people that were already arrested in Russia and Belarus in the last few years, I keep thinking the despots themselves do a much finer job at killing their people than any western nation would.

(which they don't, I know, but according to Russian propaganda it's the West that wants to come after them)

[Gaidax]

Maybe, if Russia puts the same effort into reducing collateral damage as the West then it does seem like an overly-selective form of criticism. Unintended collateral damage should not be used as an emotional weapon if the decision makers are genuinely putting effort into avoiding that kind of damage.

Don't see me here as praising Russia or anything, but what you see now is a very very big amount of restraint on Russia's part. The moment they take soft gloves off, you will see what real no restraint looks like.

As I see it - they slowly escalate it until they will have Ukrainian government begging for ceasefire at any cost. That's why when I hear Ukrainian delegation putting up a brave front I say here, lets see what it will be in 2 weeks from now.

[Vampiregenesis]

What would you need to see in order to have confidence in your society? Did you say you were European? For some reason we live in a world where Russia and China have too much confidence and Europe has too little, it's backwards...

If you asked me a month ago, I would say that all of these would only happen in a dream but right now I completely lack confidence as crazy as it sounds. Europe and Russia are pushing their agenda to the extreme without regard to anything. They don't seem to care about what could happen. A European country has been massacred already. When it happens it's crazy, you can't believe it but you know that you have to do something about it, you don't have the option to avoid it. I suppose many refugees in Ukraine felt that. A WW3 is a possibility right now and you might be the next who gets bombed.

I now consider relocation and stockpiling food, man what is happening now is really disruptive.

[Makabreska]

I now consider relocation and stockpiling food, man what is happening right is really disruptive.

You are being hysterical.

[Easo]

Showing the horrors of the war that Putin started?

Ye, let's not show the suffering war causes, let's not talk that it is normal people who get fucked the most.

It's primitive shock value. What is the line we do not cross showing those, what and who we chose to show? Do we show the BBQ'ed Russian troops? Do we show that human mincemeat which was one of the shot down Ukrainian Su-25 pilots? Or maybe we show the one actual legitimate grievance the "republics" had - their own pictures of their dead children, so very similar to this one?

It's gore porn to a degree. People did fucking love 2nd Karabakh War drone strike videos.

This is the same shit as the way too common waving of childrens corpses in Middle East, almost as if they were flags.

Nothing increases antiwar sentiments more than showing people the horror of war.

Or, on the contrary, "REVENGE!!!11oneone".

Putin is closer to the tsars of 1917 than any leader of the USSR... and they went away during WWI.

They also ruled for hundreds of years.

[PACOX]

Finland's political parties are meeting tomorrow to discuss the updated security situation since the Russian invasion. On the agenda is discussing a membership in NATO - which of course doesn't mean that they will actually apply to join, but whatever Putin tried to accomplish with this, it's having the exact opposite effect.

You think NATO is going to be taking any new members right now? Finland is not as strategically significant to either side, it's really not the time to be drafting people.

NATO has been pretty clear about what it is doing. Nothing. No further agitation outside of what's already been established. That means it's not adopting any new members soon. Putin's response is his to bear but he manufactured 'justificatio' because of the 'threat' of NATO adopting Ukraine. Now NATO had no actual plans to adopt NATO but you see what so little got Putin going. Finland isn't worth giving him more excuses. We have contain the madman first. Talk him off the ledge then decide what comes next.

[Shadowferal]

A WW3 is a possibility right now and you might be the next who gets bombed.
I now consider relocation and stockpiling food, man what is happening now is really disruptive.

I don't know how close you are to the action, but ww3...not likely to happen.

[PhaelixWW]

Europe and Russia are pushing their agenda to the extreme without regard to anything.

What hyperbolic garbage.

This is not "pushing their agenda to the extreme"; there are far more levels of extreme beyond.

Frankly, Russia is invading Ukraine because Ukraine was underprotected from an alliance standpoint. It's like a predator going after the weakest of the pack. And yet Putin's still have more trouble than expected with this relatively "weak" prey.

It's a whole other thing for Putin to consider going after NATO. Just as it is a whole other thing for NATO to send boots into Ukraine.

So clearly that's not "without regard to anything".

They don't seem to care about what could happen. A European country has been massacred already. When it happens it's crazy, you can't believe it but you know that you have to do something about it, you don't have the option to avoid it. I suppose many refugees in Ukraine felt that. A WW3 is a possibility right now and you might be the next who gets bombed.

I now consider relocation and stockpiling food, man what is happening right is really disruptive.

Good lord. YUPPIE, is that you?

Why are so many people quick to express their naïveté?

[Shrouded]

You think NATO is going to be taking any new members right now? Finland is not as strategically significant to either side, it's really not the time to be drafting people.

Honestly, I don't think they will be either - but just the fact that it's being discussed tomorrow is noteworthy. Finland and Sweden have both been pretty content with being partners with NATO but not being a part of it, but in not even a week support for full membership has risen sharply in both nations. Like I said, Putin trying to warn countries off from buddying up to NATO is clearly not working out the way he hoped it would.