1. #17961
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    …like, is Russia seriously trying to get other countries to believe this?

    As I said previously, they could cease trying to justify this nonsense, save us all the eye-rolling, and say they just want a chunk of Ukraine.
    I sometimes wonder if it's actually lies to them, or they honestly believe the pure delirium they spew. It wouldn't surprise me either way, really.

  2. #17962
    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    https://www.reuters.com/world/russia...ne-2022-04-28/

    Damn it, I left Poland too early, could have been present to witness this!

  3. #17963
    Quote Originally Posted by Vladier View Post
    I sometimes wonder if it's actually lies to them, or they honestly believe the pure delirium they spew. It wouldn't surprise me either way, really.
    It is likely "Say this or there's a good window view I want you to see."

  4. #17964
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    …like, is Russia seriously trying to get other countries to believe this?

    As I said previously, they could cease trying to justify this nonsense, save us all the eye-rolling, and say they just want a chunk of Ukraine.
    Someone, somewhere will believe this and a few of them may be Ukrainians.

    I saw an outline from someone in some vid a while ago about what Russia wants:

    The canal to Crimea unblocked(I think everyone is aware of this)

    Land bridge to Crimea(this too)

    To control the gas field to the west of Slovansk. Now this I had not heard of before, it is old news but in 2010 it was discovered and it has been suggested that Russia wants to control it so it does not threaten their own economy.

    This last bit suddenly makes the war have a lot more sense and I have not seen it mentioned nearly as often as the former points.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

  5. #17965
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afrospinach View Post
    I saw an outline from someone in some vid a while ago about what Russia wants:

    The canal to Crimea unblocked(I think everyone is aware of this)

    Land bridge to Crimea(this too)

    To control the gas field to the west of Slovansk. Now this I had not heard of before, it is old news but in 2010 it was discovered and it has been suggested that Russia wants to control it so it does not threaten their own economy.

    This last bit suddenly makes the war have a lot more sense and I have not seen it mentioned nearly as often as the former points.
    It was touched on, but not in depth:
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    That entirely depends on what his goal was in the first place. If he was desperate to keep Ukraine (and its newly-found oil deposits) from joining NATO (and therefore being placed out of Russia's reach), then he won't consider that a victory at all.

    This was posted earlier ITT, but it's a good discussion on Putin's potential motivations in Ukraine.

    That is probably the video to which you were referring.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  6. #17966
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afrospinach View Post
    Someone, somewhere will believe this and a few of them may be Ukrainians.

    I saw an outline from someone in some vid a while ago about what Russia wants:

    The canal to Crimea unblocked(I think everyone is aware of this)

    Land bridge to Crimea(this too)

    To control the gas field to the west of Slovansk. Now this I had not heard of before, it is old news but in 2010 it was discovered and it has been suggested that Russia wants to control it so it does not threaten their own economy.

    This last bit suddenly makes the war have a lot more sense and I have not seen it mentioned nearly as often as the former points.
    If Russia’s goal was to establish a tighter fuel hegemony to prevent alternate sources from threatening their economy I’d say that plan blew up spectacularly.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  7. #17967
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    If Russia’s goal was to establish a tighter fuel hegemony to prevent alternate sources from threatening their economy I’d say that plan blew up spectacularly.
    On that note, diesel export from the Middle East to Europe in April are expected to more than double to 379,000 barrels a day (bpd), offsetting an expected loss of 166,000 bpd of Russian diesel supply. Diesel export out of Primorsk, Russia’s key fuel shipments port on the Baltic Sea, is anticipated to slump by as much as 30 percent in May.

    That being said, Russia is still earning $66B from their energy since February 24. Germany alone accounts for $9.1B.
    Last edited by Rasulis; 2022-04-28 at 10:06 PM.

  8. #17968
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Remember when Russia tried to get everyone to believe that oil prices would reach $300 a barrel?


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  9. #17969
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    In the russian mentality everything you have, including your life, ultimate belongs to the Tsar.
    I refuse to believe that. And maybe that means the problem is me.

  10. #17970
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I refuse to believe that. And maybe that means the problem is me.
    Western people will never understand russians which is why i think west is having such a problem dealing with current situation.

    You kinda need to understand that "good russians" as some people like to call them are statistic error minority. Vast majority of them simply lack any form of empathy for anyone, often times even for themselves. They are being trained from small child to not think for themselves and blindly accept everything they are told.

    This is why, even if they KNOW something will have bad consequences or is objectively wrong they will simply approach it with dead-eyed fatalism.

  11. #17971
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I refuse to believe that. And maybe that means the problem is me.
    It's really easy to believe. Everything I have, am, and will be belongs to the Tsar. Now, swap Tsar with deity. Whole civilizations are built on the concept. Their "owner" just happens to be a person you can see. Like Jonestown or Waco. Or Trump.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  12. #17972
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Western people will never understand russians which is why i think west is having such a problem dealing with current situation.

    You kinda need to understand that "good russians" as some people like to call them are statistic error minority. Vast majority of them simply lack any form of empathy for anyone, often times even for themselves. They are being trained from small child to not think for themselves and blindly accept everything they are told.

    This is why, even if they KNOW something will have bad consequences or is objectively wrong they will simply approach it with dead-eyed fatalism.
    Nihilism is very Russian, da.



    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  13. #17973
    Russia fired missiles at Kyiv while the UN chief was visiting. One landed near the hotel he was staying at.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-...ost_type=share

  14. #17974
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Russia fired missiles at Kyiv while the UN chief was visiting. One landed near the hotel he was staying at.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-...ost_type=share
    Sounds like the perfect time to kick the ruskies out of the UN. Any other bad faith actor states start yapping their mouths about it... kick them out too. We should just stop "playing by the rules" with these people.

  15. #17975
    gerasimov is allegedly in kharkiv, cmon accurate artillery or drone strike

  16. #17976
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    Sounds like the perfect time to kick the ruskies out of the UN. Any other bad faith actor states start yapping their mouths about it... kick them out too. We should just stop "playing by the rules" with these people.
    Aside from things like disaster relief and food aid, talking shit about countries that are in the UN is about all the UN is good for. Kicking them out altogether serves no purpose.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  17. #17977
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Aside from things like disaster relief and food aid, talking shit about countries that are in the UN is about all the UN is good for. Kicking them out altogether serves no purpose.
    What purpose does it serve to keep them in? All they do is abuse the rules and then probably laugh behind our backs that we allow it.
    Bad faith actors sit in bodies like this just so they can block investigations into their human right abuses and so on.
    It's time we stop playing nice with them.
    Last edited by zorkuus; 2022-04-29 at 03:19 AM.

  18. #17978
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    What purpose does it serve to keep them in?
    Like I said, it lets you talk shit to their face in front of everyone. That's all the UN is good for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  19. #17979
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    What purpose does it serve to keep them in? All they do is abuse the rules and then probably laugh behind our backs that we allow it.
    Bad faith actors sit in bodies like this just so they can block investigations into their human right abuses and so on.
    It's time we stop playing nice with them.
    Because the main reason any of the big 5 keep the UN is international prestige and the means to use it to influence the rest of the world. It's never been about the XYZs that they claim it is. It's why countries that are just as bad, if not worse than Russia are able to get into places like the human rights council and others at the behest of the UK and the USA. That way these countries might be run by child-killing bastards, but they're western aligned child-killing bastards.

    Without the UN there's no real show and dance and it makes behind the scenes dealing a little more difficult.

    At no point is any foreign policy about who is morally right (Don't get me wrong here, in Ukraine, Russia is the morally reprehensible side with Ukraine the victim and the west taking the morally right side). It's all about power and the UN is just another part of the poker game everyone plays and cheats in. Which is why it stays and allows the worst of the worst in certain areas because USA and Russia both benefit from it.

  20. #17980
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    What purpose does it serve to keep them in? All they do is abuse the rules and then probably laugh behind our backs that we allow it.
    Bad faith actors sit in bodies like this just so they can block investigations into their human right abuses and so on.
    It's time we stop playing nice with them.
    If they are out then they are properly out of control.

    Think of it as another diplomatic channel.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

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