Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Santti]

By the end of June this will all be a distant memory just like all the covid restrictions.

Ehhh, maybe. Might last quite a bit longer, if Ukraine wants to get Crimea back, and how stubborn Russia is about it.

[Bakis]

I don't understand how the Russian Army can operate as a whole.. It kinda shows how weak it is right now, but I just don't understand how it's *supposed* to work.

Short answer is that Russia as we all know is corrupted to the bone. So much that not even areas that should not be corrupted (in the eyes of those in power) are corrupted.
The defense department place an order of 100M to buy X system, 25% of the money gets into someones pocket.
Now magnify that into every area of the military: training, weapon systems, munitions, intelligence etc etc.

Thats Russia today in a nutshell, its so deep its even in places that are counterintuitive.

[zorkuus]

Short answer is that Russia as we all know is corrupted to the bone. So much that not even areas that should not be corrupted (in the eyes of those in power) are corrupted.
The defense department place an order of 100M to buy X system, 25% of the money gets into someones pocket.
Now magnify that into every area of the military: training, weapon systems, munitions, intelligence etc etc.

Thats Russia today in a nutshell, its so deep its even in places that are counterintuitive.

The best thing about this is that Putler and friends are also pocketing some of the money that was supposed to go into modernizing their military.

[Santti]

Short answer is that Russia as we all know is corrupted to the bone. So much that not even areas that should not be corrupted (in the eyes of those in power) are corrupted.
The defense department place an order of 100M to buy X system, 25% of the money gets into someones pocket.
Now magnify that into every area of the military: training, weapon systems, munitions, intelligence etc etc.

Thats Russia today in a nutshell, its so deep its even in places that are counterintuitive.

Uhhh... there are places where corruption isn't just that?

[Bakis]

Uhhh... there are places where corruption isn't just that?

You missed the point. It depends on what your aim are and in what order.
"Their" (still up to debate who exactly that include) is to enrich themsemselves as well as the illusion of a grander russia.
At some point those collide.
There are parties of interest that heavily lean to either making money or grander russia, that is a scale that is moving among those people.

Bottom line in terms of corruption. Corrupting the state with public contracts whatnot is one thing but in regards to the war on Ukraine, then it becomes a tug of war of what has the priority.
And remember those calls were made years ago given the time needed to get a military into shape outside puppet clown parades on the Red Square.

It all comes down to the corruption had a monetary priority and suddenly Putin, just one of the mainplayers decide the visionary aspect of a grand russian should be a priority.
Guess what, you cant turn the heap of shit the russian military is around in a years buildup and planning.

[Corvus]

Chinese media were filming when the Ukrainians tried to launch a Russian afv turret to the moon. Nothing odd about that.

Except it happened 100 km behind the frontline in territory that has been in seperatist hands since 2014.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisO_wi...48245539393539

[Iphie]

Apparently, the orcs are barely listening to orders anymore, and have even been dakka'ing their own vehicles, so they couldn't be moved to the front lines.

Oooh, I want this to be true, where can I find more to read on this?

[PhaelixWW]

Oooh, I want this to be true, where can I find more to read on this?

It's a bit anecdotal.




WaPo: Mid-level Russian officers refusing orders in Ukraine, Pentagon assesses

Middle-rank Russian military officers in Ukraine are disobeying their commanders, the Pentagon assessed Monday, the latest sign of problems with discipline and morale for the Kremlin’s military in the third month of its invasion.

The officers not obeying appear to have positions as senior as battalion commander, a senior U.S. defense official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity under ground rules set by the Pentagon. In other cases, the officers are not acting with the “alacrity” that would be expected, the official said.

[Gorsameth]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Russia



I know they can be sent outside during a war, which this isn't officially according to putin, so maybe I should have said: 'Unless it's war.'.

If I remember right there were some comments about conscripts having been sent to Ukraine in the Duma at the start of the war and a request to have those conscript units pulled back to Russia.

[PhaelixWW]

If I remember right there were some comments about conscripts having been sent to Ukraine in the Duma at the start of the war and a request to have those conscript units pulled back to Russia.

"Supposedly" about 100 conscripts signed in their contracts that they could be sent to war, and thus were. Then all but four of them died before Putin countermanded their orders and brought them back home.

But then there are also reports that conscripts were killed on the Moskva, which Russia is also keeping quiet about.

So, I mean... don't assume that they're not there, I guess.

[Corvus]

Well, the Russians seem to have gone full qanon with the latest mod briefing outlining a global conspiracy to produce WMDs involving all the usual qanon boogiemen.

https://mobile.twitter.com/maxfras/s...85330652188673

[zorkuus]

Well, the Russians seem to have gone full qanon with the latest mod briefing outlining a global conspiracy to produce WMDs involving all the usual qanon boogiemen.

https://mobile.twitter.com/maxfras/s...85330652188673

Just business as usual in an autocracy. Eventually the lies venture into the realm of totally absurd and comical.

[Edge-]

Well, the Russians seem to have gone full qanon with the latest mod briefing outlining a global conspiracy to produce WMDs involving all the usual qanon boogiemen.

https://mobile.twitter.com/maxfras/s...85330652188673

I mean...I can largely understand what that chart is supposedly trying to say. Given that fact, this is a particularly bad conspiracy theory. The less understandable the connections are, the more real they are.

Why they gotta go after the Rockefellers though, man? Why not the Vanderbits? The Canegies?

[PhaelixWW]

Well, the Russians seem to have gone full qanon with the latest mod briefing outlining a global conspiracy to produce WMDs involving all the usual qanon boogiemen.

https://mobile.twitter.com/maxfras/s...85330652188673

At what point does the US GoP realize that it has more in common with autocratic Russia than it does with most Americans?

Oh, right, never.

"No collusion!"

[Edge-]

At what point does the US GoP realize that it has more in common with autocratic Russia than it does with most Americans?

Oh, right, never.

"No collusion!"

They've known for years. It's a feature of the political party though, not a bug.

[PhaelixWW]

They've known for years. It's a feature of the political party though, not a bug.

The leadership knows. But the rank-and-file still don't get the joke that's been played on them, though.

[zorkuus]

The leadership knows. But the rank-and-file still don't get the joke that's been played on them, though.

They're a lost cause at this point. That's why the leadership only doubles down on the crazy. They don't know what else to do with the tRump cult.

[Corvus]

If anything, it just shows the ties between Russia and the qanon movement, with Russia using it to try and sow discord in the west. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this started popping up in qanon talking points soon.

[Fugus]

The leadership knows. But the rank-and-file still don't get the joke that's been played on them, though.

"While it's easy to fool a man, it's hard to convince a man that he has been fooled"

Tested this saying multiple times and even if you can prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt with iron clad evidence, it still isn't enough. I know at least one who acts medically incapable of learning any fact or how anything works if it forces him to question anything he doesn't want to question.

You will have better luck teaching brain surgery to a quadriplegic bear than you will of getting them to learn a fact they don't like.

[PhaelixWW]

CNN: Video shows Russian soldiers killing 2 civilians before they ransack a business

Russian soldiers shot two unarmed civilians as they walked away after an encounter in the outskirts of the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv.

CNN has obtained surveillance video of what is now being investigated as a war crime by Ukrainian prosecutors.

Both civilians died after the heartless shooting that goes against the so-called rules of war that outlaw the targeting of civilians. CNN has identified the victims. One was the owner of the vehicle dealership that was looted, whose family does not want to be named. The other was Leonid Oleksiyovych Plyats, a 68-year-old grandfather who worked as a guard there.

His daughter, Yulia, cannot bear to watch the video of the day her father died, but she is saving it to one day show her children, so they don't forget how savage the invaders were.

"They are executioners," she told CNN. "It's awful because my father was a civilian, he was 68, a peaceful unarmed man."


Killing caught from multiple angles

The images from security cameras capture the initial Russian attempt to take Kyiv in March. On the main road to the capital, the fighting was fierce as Ukrainian forces battled Russian troops and tankers to stop the advance.

But what happened outside the car dealership on March 16 was not a battle between soldiers or even soldiers and armed civilians.

The video has been verified by CNN. It is compiled from a number of cameras around the property and, while it has no sound, its pictures are clear. It was a cowardly, cold-blooded killing of two unarmed men.

Five Russian soldiers arrive and try to break into the businesses -- firing at locks and smashing glass.

As the owner approaches with hands raised, they stop him and appear to search him for weapons. Plyats then arrives and is also frisked. There seems to be some conversation before the soldiers turn away and the two civilians begin to walk back to their guard post.

Then at least two of the soldiers come up behind the men and open fire. Both civilians drop to the ground.

CNN has requested comment from Russia's defense ministry but has not had a response.

A top Ukraine prosecutor says the incident is being investigated as a war crime after viewing the video CNN obtained.

In addition to the killing, the video shows plenty more unprofessional behavior by the group of five soldiers, identified as members of the invading force by their uniforms, analysis of who controlled what area at the time and witness statements.

The men are seen inside the dealership removing their body armor and looking through drawers and desks. One man grabs a bobble hat from a shelf and puts it on. Two men get drinks and apparently toast each other.


The grandfather tried to save himself

While the soldiers were ransacking the businesses, Plyats was still alive. The video shows him struggle to his feet, tie what looks like a tourniquet around his thigh and hobble back to his guard post.

There, he gets a phone to call for help.

That call went to his compatriots, more Ukrainian citizens who stayed to defend their neighborhoods.

The ragtag force of volunteers tried to rescue Plyats, exchanging fire with Russian forces as they struggled to reach him, said the group's commander who did not want to be identified to protect his safety.

The surveillance footage shows Plyats slumped inside the guard hut as the Ukrainians make it to him. They drag him out, leaving a wide swath of blood. He died there outside the guard shack. The commander said he bled out as the civilian fighters initially had to retreat, they simply did not have the firepower to take on the tanks and guns the Russians had in the area.

The civilian commander said Plyats and the dealership owner had been warned that the Russians were getting closer but chose to stay. Plyats' daughter said he believed in fulfilling his duty so he went to work. Neither man seemed to have any idea how they would be treated as they approached the soldiers.

The volunteer fighter said what happened has generated hatred toward those Russian troops who killed for no reason and others like them.

"It's a war crime for sure," he said. "If there is any possibility to reach and catch them, I think they deserve a death penalty."

Plyats' daughter asked for his remains to be cremated, as a proper burial was impossible amid the fighting. His ashes still await her at the morgue and she hopes she will, one day, be able to bury them in her mother's grave. All she can do now is remember her "very cheerful" father and hope for a measure of justice.

"They need to be judged," she said of his killers. "I hope for an international court. I hope that not only Ukraine but the whole world will learn about their crimes."