Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Azadina]

"Concessions" you mean accept subjugation? Fuck off. Fuck right off.

I love it. 30 years free, then it's time to "grow up" and embrace daddy Russian rule again. I'm lost for words.

[jonnysensible]

Where did you see "subjugation" in "taking Russian interests into account"?

Russia must take Ukraine's interests into account.

[DarkAmbient]

Johnson's government has been antagonistic towards Russia from day one, and they've not been diplomatic about it; remember weirdly having a BBC crew on a warship when they crossed into contested waters and "surprisingly" got buzzed by Russian warplanes?, and sudden coverage of Russian aircraft on routine patrols 'a bit too close to our airspace' in spite of it being a more than weekly event for years? It feels like theatrics at this point, we've been building this propaganda campaign up over the past couple of years, and now suddenly there's a war on? And yet, same government that refused to release a report on Russian influence and finance in UK politics, same government that worked so hard, and continues to work to destabilise the EU? Makes you wonder what side they're on. Feel like we're the perfect fucking patsy for it.

We have reasons to be antagonistic towards Putin, mostly the fact his assassins poisoned multiple people on our soil, killing two of them. But to state that our behaviour towards Russia constitutes a propaganda campaign with the intent on provoking war with them is just pants-on-head ridiculous.

[Mihalik]

Russia must take Ukraine's interests into account.

Whoa there tiger! That's not how that works...

Or whatnot.

[Mihalik]

sip

Lying, gaslighting and whataboutism.

Go lie some more about those little green men or whatnot.

[Jessicka]

So Putin made Johnson PM (how?) so Johnson could go to war with Russia?!? That is a nonsense conspiracy theory. It doesn't even make sense.

You claimed the that the government refused to release the report which is false, and now, as expected, your argument shifts when you're proved wrong.

Sorry, the detail was wrong, there was a report, but the report for what there was of it (much of it redacted) said there was never any investigation in the first place, so that's not much of a report. We just ignored Russia's influence, while the Americans found a ton of it. We continue to ignore it, straight up refused to try to investigate it, and we continue to kick the can down the road in taking meaningful action to deal with it or Russia's actions in general.

The actions really run in the entire opposite direction to the recent propaganda campaign and I find that to be quite the red flag in terms of gaslighting. Who benefits from us doing nothing about their influence right here at home on the one hand, and talking a good fight when it comes to them messing in Ukraine? At this point, it seems only to be Russia, they get to carry on passing envelopes of cash around Whitehall, while playing victim to NATO's aggression.

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We have reasons to be antagonistic towards Putin, mostly the fact his assassins poisoned multiple people on our soil, killing two of them. But to state that our behaviour towards Russia constitutes a propaganda campaign with the intent on provoking war with them is just pants-on-head ridiculous.

If it's more than propaganda, where's the full investigation into Russian influence on UK soil - the one Johnson refused to initiate? Where's the sanctions that actually impact Russia's actions? Where's the litigation and investigations into money laundering?

The antagonism is all fucking talk, and absolutely zero substance whatsoever. Everything just carries on as it was. It is obviously propaganda.

[Magnagarde]

The real problem here is that there are no men with balls left to run the West. Everyone is too busy eating their pretzel, looking down their phone or being depressed about their cat biting the dust.

Send 100.000 NATO troops to surround Königsberg as a part of "military drills", put forward a plan to reunite lands taken away by the Soviets and park nuclear weapons right in the middle of Kharkov and Odessa. That ought to send a message. If they don't want to get the message, then the same fate awaits us all. It is a lot better than being a ping-pong slave of the 21st century version of Hitler's Lebensraum, which keeps expanding every few years.

[Shalcker]

Russia must take Ukraine's interests into account.

Ukraine's interests were best served by following Minsk agreement. Noone ever proposed any better deal. That would get them Donbass back and territorial integrity restored, and everyone could go on with "business as usual"

As you see no matter how hard we tried we couldn't actually force them to follow it over 8 years; thus we had to go with alternative we could do on our own.

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LOL No. USA or any other country is not threat to Russia.

Supporting insurgencies, deposing agreeable governments, fomenting unrest with "color revolutions" - "not a threat", right. Maybe if you were born yesterday.

Russia is the only 1 threat in Europe.

The threat is quite obviously mutual.

[jonnysensible]

Ukraine interests were best served by following Minsk agreement. That would get them Donbass back and territorial integrity restored, and everyone could go on with "business as usual"

As you see no matter how hard we tried we couldn't actually force them to follow it over 8 years; thus we had to go with alternative we could do on our own.

Ukraines interests were russia not invading crimea, not arming + training + supplying violent separatists. Yet here with are with putin doing a lecture on interpretive history to justify his criminal actions.

he doesn't think Ukraine is a real country thats it.

Hes been living in his bunker afraid of covid for so long its fried his brain.

[Mihalik]

The threat is quite obviously mutual.

Horseshit. Again, Russia is the only country doing a Lebensraum here. There's no whataboutism.

[Shalcker]

Ukraines interests were russia not invading crimea, not arming + training + supplying violent separatists. Yet here with are with putin doing a lecture on interpretive history to justify his criminal actions.

Ukraine's interests were also not joining into Association Agreement and breaking ties with Russia. Somehow you never cared about that one. "Not following along with our plans? Instant sanctions and protest support!"

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Horseshit. Again, Russia is the only country doing a Lebensraum here. There's no whataboutism.

Association Agreement and following reforms are quite obviously EU version of "Lebensraum".

"Free movement in EU" so that EU could more easily exploit their workforce while giving them none of EU benefits.

[Ihavewaffles]

live

[Levelfive]

The sheer amount of gaslighting and lying the Russians engage in is absolutely monumental. If the Russians say anything whatsoever it's either a lie, a whataboutism or a threat.

I don't think they are even capable of honesty at this point.

Only the inadvertent kind: "Putin says it was 'madness' that national republics were given the right to leave the Russian Empire."

https://twitter.com/markmackinnon/st...iPS7IPrtJgqUiw

Should at least be a handy reference for those still desperately trying to pretend Putin has any other motive.

[jonnysensible]

Ukraine's interests were also not joining into Association Agreement and breaking ties with Russia.

it was in their interests. Just not Russias. Too bad you don't like it.

Watching Mad Vlad giving his non-factual history lesson, and non-factual ukraine analysis is sad and dark.

Hes been projecting what he wants to do for weeks.

Genocide the Crimean tartars, and forcibly assimilate Ukraine.

[Shalcker]

Hes been projecting what he wants to do for weeks.
Genocide the Crimean tartars, and forcibly assimilate Ukraine.

Could you point out which of his words in last few weeks give you such impression?

[Mihalik]

it was in their interests. Just not Russias. Too bad you don't like it.

Watching Mad Vlad giving his non-factual history lesson, and non-factual ukraine analysis is sad and dark.

Hes been projecting what he wants to do for weeks.

Genocide the Crimean tartars, and forcibly assimilate Ukraine.

I swear to god, it's a full Lebensraum speech. He flat out just denied the existence of Ukrainians as a national group and basically told all the ex-Soviet republics that they all really should be part his Russian empire.

[Easo]

This is it.
I don't even see the need to comment Putin's speech. Maybe someday, but the amount of shit and literal open imperialism is staggering.
Welcome to Cold War 2, in case someone still doesn't understand that.

[Ihavewaffles]

Mods, enough is enough. Ban Shalcker. You know exactly what he's doing here.

Crimea river, geez the amount of salt from you...

[jonnysensible]

This is it.
I don't even see the need to comment Putin's speech. Maybe someday, but the amount of shit and literal open imperialism is staggering.
Welcome to Cold War 2, in case someone still doesn't understand that.

cmon easo its clearly nato pushing for war here

[zEmini]

I just can't believe we live in a decade where a country still thinks it can invade another country. I really hope Putin and his supporters find their "victory" as bittersweet as defeat in the aftermath. Fuck Putin and fuck anyone and the trolls who back him.