Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Machismo]

How do you emigrate without money and without a critical high demand job?

You can't travel to another country and say 'I live here now' and expect the local government to go 'yeah sure'. (unless your a European citizen moving between EU countries)

Let them come.

Let them start a new life.

[Gaidax]

If Belarus joins the fray, all of this foreign aid will be stuck somewhere around Lviv. In fact, I will not be surprised if the whole point of the Belarus deployment will be to corner Western Ukraine in to a small pocket.

And do not, ever, under any conditions, trust the German proclamations. Notoriously duplicitous state, easily succumbs to manipulation and pressure. Deeply penetrated by Russian spies and influencers. Kyiv was promised anti-aircraft and anti-tank missiles and launchers 72 hours ago. Where are they? Are the managers of this said program clocking 9-5?
Half of the Monday has passed in Europe and still not a word on SWIFT, further sanctions on banks... nothing. Radio silence.

Do not ever trust the Western Europeans. Ever.

While I would not go to extremes, I do most certainly believe there is quite a gap between fiery statements and actual actions.

Partial SWIFT block, sanctions with loopholes and tiptoeing around energy sector the best EU/US can. They do try to help out, but in the end West interests are first and Ukraine is far off second.

I also think this military aid is both too little and too late. It should have happened a month ago and thrice the amount.

[Azadina]

Spread this far and wide.
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2022...in-the-donbas/

The effort to debunk is commendable, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter. Russia invaded, and everyone could plainly see their "justifications" were/are complete horseshit. Plain as day. Only to be more obvious as time went on.

[Machismo]

Some of my more open friends from Sweden with no connection to either countries switched from supporting Ukraine to supporting Russia.
My Russian friends were VERY careful when I asked them about what they think about the invasion, but when they noticed that I'm not against Russia or Ukraine, they really opened up how the west kept quiet when thousands of russians were targeted and killed in Ukraine. Which is not really media propaganda.

People need to understand that there is no innocent government here on either side. Only innocent civilians.
Zelenskyj is a comedian first, president second and Klitschko got hit in the head a bit too many times.
I feel that Putin went too far though, but I also hear that the orders are not to touch the civilians. Yes there are civilian deaths, but I don't see how you can avoid that in a military conflict.

And... Russia is trying to kill innocent people.

Your comment didn't age well. Hell, it didn't even take until one finishes reading it, before it rotted.

[Voidwielder]

And while I'm thinking about Germany - the legacy of Merkel will be that of a total failure to prepare Germany for the world where tanks, aircraft and missiles do, in fact, matter. Abject failure in energy, military and even diplomatic policies.

I for one welcome the continued decline of German power in the continent.

[Gaidax]

Some of my more open friends from Sweden with no connection to either countries switched from supporting Ukraine to supporting Russia.
My Russian friends were VERY careful when I asked them about what they think about the invasion, but when they noticed that I'm not against Russia or Ukraine, they really opened up how the west kept quiet when thousands of russians were targeted and killed in Ukraine. Which is not really media propaganda.

People need to understand that there is no innocent government here on either side. Only innocent civilians.
Zelenskyj is a comedian first, president second and Klitschko got hit in the head a bit too many times.
I feel that Putin went too far though, but I also hear that the orders are not to touch the civilians. Yes there are civilian deaths, but I don't see how you can avoid that in a military conflict.

Nice propaganda, comrade. You are literally pushing Russian state media crap and memes they were spamming for years. "Klichko got hit in the head a bit too many times and Zelensky is a clown" - stock Solovyev playbook crap. I heard that shit myself.

[Jessicka]

I should have added that West should lure educated, trained and skilled people. Offer generous asylum conditions.

As you already noted, western governments are pretty critically corrupted by Russian money, which is ultimately what allowed all this to come to pass already.

[Draco-Onis]

And, we are free to judge them for continuing to support those tyrant fuckwads. The evidence has been laid before them, and what do we see?

We have seen them consistently defend Putin's actions, and continue to support him. Mind you, this isn't simply a matter of them keeping their heads down, and just waiting for his regime to eventually fade... they've cheered him on through it all..

Do you honestly think that's the information Russians are getting? seriously? speaking as someone who grew up under a dictator I can say you are being delusional.

[Machismo]

Do you honestly think that's the information Russians are getting? seriously? speaking as someone who grew up under a dictator I can say you are being delusional.

I'm saying that Russian state television is shady as fuck. I'm also saying that the people have seen the actions of Putin over the past decades, and the Russian government couldn't hide it all. Russians have access tot he outside world, and have long cheered Putin on.

Ignorance can only be a defense for so long. Look at the vast majority of Russians from this very site. They were clearly able to see what Putin does, and they have spent years and years shilling for him.

[Voidwielder]

Do you honestly think that's the information Russians are getting? seriously? speaking as someone who grew up under a dictator I can say you are being delusional.

May I ask where you're from?

[ati87]

China only sides with China. Their foreign policy can be summed up as "no friends, just interests". If those interests are showing friendly, it's only because they want something.

Nobody expected them to abstain on the UNSC vote. It's pretty safe to think they're dragging their feet right now while they re-evaluate the situation and what is in their interests.

Whatever China does or does not do, nothing will save Russia from financial ruin except the, lack of, actions from the US/EU/UK.
Russia isn't just going to change the structure of it's economy overnight. After Crimea Putin did order some changes in preparation for future conflicts but we are still seeing how much damage sanctions can do because you real life isn't a Sims game.

[Gaidax]

Whatever China does or does not do, nothing will save Russia from financial ruin except the, lack of, actions from the US/EU/UK.
Russia isn't just going to change the structure of it's economy overnight. After Crimea Putin did order some changes in preparation for future conflicts but we are still seeing how much damage sanctions can do because you real life isn't a Sims game.

I think there is a bit of copium going on with this.

Sanctions that are put up can be eroded and bypassed overtime or partially lifted with various behind-the-curtains deals that are bound to happen.

Right now there is a lot of kneejerk reactions going on, but will it actually last any sort of significant time or become Crimea 2.0 - only time will tell.


And heck when you look at the sanctions themselves - they are far from being AS comprehensive as one would hope. Russian source of their wealth and gall is not very touched.

[Jessicka]

Do you honestly think that's the information Russians are getting? seriously? speaking as someone who grew up under a dictator I can say you are being delusional.

It's not apathy that gets people reported to the FSB. And that happens a lot. Plenty of them know, some of them are against it, but there's no shortage of those who support it.

[Vampiregenesis]

Zelensky still demands for full withdrawal of Russian troops from everywhere including Crimea, This basically means a surrender for Russians right?

Is this realistic considering that Russians control a decent amount of territory inside Ukraine and have the means to continue this war?

I suppose this guy has decided to sacrifice himself in a leonidas fashion.

[Jessicka]

Zelensky still demands for full withdrawal of Russian troops from everywhere including Crimea, This basically means a surrender for Russians right?

Is this realistic considering that Russians control a decent amount of territory inside Ukraine?

It's not realistic, but neither is what Russia are asking for. I'm surprised that meeting didn't turn into a red wedding.

[Gaidax]

Zelensky still demands for full withdrawal of Russian troops from everywhere including Crimea, This basically means a surrender for Russians right?

Is this realistic considering that Russians control a decent amount of territory inside Ukraine and have the means to continue this war?

Will he still demand it in two weeks when half the Ukraine is rubble? That's the problem here.

Russians have the bigger gun in these whole negotiations. Sanctions-shmanctions is not of concern for them right now.

---

Besides it's negotiations, you don't come to negotiations with huge concessions day one.

[Voidwielder]

These talks were duplicitous from the start. Kremlin will never back off from what they have - accepting any Russian demands would be the political (and possibly actual) death of that entire political establishment in Kyiv. And boy does Kremlin want that. Kremlin loves dictators in their satellites - stable, predictable. Unlike democracies, which can and do change policies on key issues.

And Kyiv could not refuse. No way.

[Gaidax]

It's not realistic, but neither is what Russia are asking for. I'm surprised that meeting didn't turn into a red wedding.

There won't be Red Wedding, because Russia too eventually would want an out. Last thing Russia wants is for this to drag on for years or even months.

[Draco-Onis]

I'm saying that Russian state television is shady as fuck. I'm also saying that the people have seen the actions of Putin over the past decades, and the Russian government couldn't hide it all. Russians have access tot he outside world, and have long cheered Putin on.

Ignorance can only be a defense for so long. Look at the vast majority of Russians from this very site. They were clearly able to see what Putin does, and they have spent years and years shilling for him.

Let me put it in terms you would understand, would you trust Chinese news outlets to shape your views of our politicians? I say given everything it's good news so many Russians do oppose Putin, we should also keep in mind that Russian polling is not exactly accurate.

[Voidwielder]

It's not realistic, but neither is what Russia are asking for. I'm surprised that meeting didn't turn into a red wedding.

Here's a bit. I know Russian so I can verify.