Russian invasion of Ukraine

[YUPPIE]

96 year-old man who survived through four concentration camps was killed today by Russians shelling apartment buildings.

Whoever is still banging the drum for Russia, or even just gives them minor benefits of the doubt, should really just stop. This is full on invasion. They are killing civilians without reason. This isn't even war, this is just invasion and slaughter.

Apologies if this is a repost but I really can't be assed to dig through 50 pages of Russia being evil to see if this has already been posted.

they are objectively evil as shit but advocating for violence or similar against Putin/them will get you torn down on social media as an extremist or racist. not to mention the amount of supporters they still have.

It's a tough situation.

[Elegiac]

What does that have to do with just saying WHATABOUTISM in the context of what I was replying to? please explain how it was WHATABOUTISM in the context of the conversation.

*gestures*

This week we send weapons to Saudi Arabia to use in a genocide

It has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand and is just an attempt at charging a party with hypocrisy without actually refuting their argument. I.e. whataboutism. Same shit as "you can't complain about Soviet human rights violations when you're lynching negroes."

[Draco-Onis]

*gestures*

WRONG

Try again, look at what I was replying to and explain yourself instead of misdirecting.

[Corvus]

So Russia's excuse for posting that they had lost 10000 KIA and then yanking the post? They were 'hacked'.

[Elegiac]

WRONG

Try again, look at what I was replying to and explain yourself instead of misdirecting.

I've explained myself quite clearly that screaming about hypocrisy is not a refutation of supporting continued sanctions on Russia and military aid to Ukraine.

[Barzotti]

So Russia's excuse for posting that they had lost 10000 KIA and then yanking the post? They were 'hacked'.

Hacking and 'poor translation'

[Edge-]

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...n-war-1324749/

Man, MAGA America needs to just move to Russia and sign the fuck up to fight the righteous fight.

[Easo]

Which reminds me of something odd: still have problem understanding is that it seems that Russia has been suggesting a similar "win" for Russia this time as Russia had after the Winter War; seemingly forgetting what happened next.

Not sure I understand you. Continuation War happened, which ended for Finland the same way as the first one. ELI5?

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...n-war-1324749/

Man, MAGA America needs to just move to Russia and sign the fuck up to fight the righteous fight.

I do not see the point of splitting off MAGA part of Murica. They are part of it, it has to be admitted and owned, otherwise there will never be a progress forward.

"Soviet Union" mention made me laugh, though. Who needs memes and stereotypes when real world is like this.

[Draco-Onis]

I've explained myself quite clearly that screaming about hypocrisy is not a refutation of supporting continued sanctions on Russia and military aid to Ukraine.

Replying to someone to point out that Georgia is not in the middle east is not WHATABOUTISM

Making you look bad for using the line "we don't give into fascist" by pointing out all the fascists we are in bed with is not WHATBOUTISM

it's pointing out facts you are uncomfortable with learn what the word means before using it.

[Barzotti]

Replying to someone to point out that Georgia is not in the middle east is not WHATABOUTISM

No one said that Georgia was in the middle east, there's no need to build imaginary arguments. And when your country has Armenia and Azerbaijan as neighbors, yeah, it's in the middle of "no one cares about them".

[Elegiac]

Replying to someone to point out that Georgia is not in the middle east is not WHATABOUTISM

When that person is replying to your insistence that you can't care about Ukraine for ethical reasons because "the international community didn't care about X", that's whataboutism.

Making you look bad for using the line "we don't give into fascist" by pointing out all the fascists we are in bed with is not WHATBOUTISM

It is in fact whataboutism when, as I said, the people saying that we should not acquiesce to fascists have consistently expressed opposition for shitty foreign policy decisions on the US' part.

Once again; trying to allege hypocrisy without directly refuting the argument is fallacious. You're not actually providing any reasons why sanctions and aid shouldn't continue.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

Why is Japan so fiercely against Russia? It's not like even halfassed obligation, they seem to genuinely hate em.

They have been technically at war since WW2 and have a pending territorial dispute over some islands.

[Poopymonster]

Hacking and 'poor translation'

10000 Russian KIA?
That's 193 US KIA given the exchange rate, or is my math off?

[Draco-Onis]

When that person is replying to your insistence that you can't care about Ukraine for ethical reasons because "the international community didn't care about X", that's whataboutism.

But it's not the international community doesn't care about Ukraine for ethical reason, Ukraine has the right geopolitical locations, natural resources and vested interests for us to "care". The facts not being to your liking doesn't make it whataboutism, the last time I checked morals don't come with conditional clauses.

You're not actually providing any reasons why sanctions and aid shouldn't continue.

How about this you go in the mirror and keep having this imaginary argument with the version of me you made up in your head because I have never once made these statements.

[Easo]

Russian news (god damn fucking blocks are starting to annoy me. Was it really necessary to block TASS as well, my dear goverment of Latvia?) are quoting Zelensky:

Зеленский заявил, что готов обсудить тему Крыма и Донбасса с Путиным, но не на первой встрече.

Он также подчеркнул, что Крым и Донбасс – тяжелая история для всех, этот вопрос нужно решать после получения Украиной гарантий безопасности.

Zelensky said that he is ready to discuss Crimea and Donbas with Putin, but not at the first meeting.
He also noted that both are hard history for everyone, this question should be solved after receiving guarantees for safety of Ukraine.
@Gaidax - as you said.

P.S.
Draco, I indeed don't see anyone specifically mentioning Middle East, unless I am blind. Though as for your point - realpolitik, again. And yes, Georgia is... less important... Ahem...

[Draco-Onis]

Russian news (god damn fucking blocks are starting to annoy me. Was it really necessary to block TASS as well, my dear goverment of Latvia?) are quoting Zelensky:



Zelensky said that he is ready to discuss Crimea and Donbas with Putin, but not at the first meeting.
He also noted that both are hard history for everyone, this question should be solved after receiving guarantees for safety of Ukraine.
@Gaidax - as you said.

P.S.
Draco, I indeed don't see anyone specifically mentioning Middle East, unless I am blind. Though as for your point - realpolitik, again. And yes, Georgia is... less important... Ahem...

I am skeptical of any talk being of importance without the international community being part of it to discuss sanction relief and what they would find acceptable as a compromise. Even if they come to an agreement without sanction relief and international support to guarantee Ukraine security it doesn't seem like something solid long term.

[Barzotti]

10000 Russian KIA?
That's 193 US KIA given the exchange rate, or is my math off?

They aren't KIA, they have been fired from the army with a retroactive effect or mysteriously unalived.

[Huehuecoyotl]

@Easo. No response from you to the post about the Russians reporting casualty figures that are HIGHER than the US estimates? Aren't you going to tell them that they can't possibly know how many troops they've lost because of the fog of war?

I saw 10,000 dead, which is presumably 10,001 now once they got hold of the guy that "accidentally" let those figures slip.

Still sticking to your belief that the US figures are an overestimate and basically propaganda?

[Elegiac]

But it's not the international community doesn't care about Ukraine for ethical reason, Ukraine has the right geopolitical locations, natural resources and vested interests for us to "care".

Uh huh; the question is why you think this refutes there being a moral imperative to resist fascism or wars of conquest by virtue of a given party failing to heed that imperative?

[Gorsameth]

You know Russia can bomb Ukraine into next century right? in real life David doesn't beat Goliath he get pummeled into the ground. I am not saying Kyiv will fall I already stated that Russians do not want large scale urban warfare they didn't bring a force for that. The longer this goes on the more innocent people die so called "experts" do not give two shits about the cost they just want to stick it to the Russians from the comfort of their chairs.

Kinda maybe somewhat?

Russia is running out of guided ammunition. Their forced to just drop dumb bombs, that will limit their deployment as you can't drop dumb bombs out of aircraft for far away while going at high speeds. So bombing Ukraine into the stone age would open up more Russian planes to more AA, something the West will happily provide to the Ukraine army.