Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Shadowferal]

You better start that this very moment. And don't forget, if you'll try to do "financial support" to keep prices low for consumers all "offsets" you add to "real price" will be going into Russian pockets. China, Korea, Japan, India.

Unsupported nonsensical claims. *yawns*

[Shalcker]

You mean aside from Russia's investment in being able to sell its energy exports to the world's richest markets?

That article has literally zero mentions of Russian investments into energy exports?

And it does mention lower contributions to GDP from energy exports over time.

You mean aside from the fact y'all have an inflation rate of 20%?

Did you read what you linked? That's "averaged analyst forecast", not actual reality yet.

And overall - not in energy, fertilizer, and food areas specifically.

If you could do this, you'd be doing it already rather than desperately trying to sell it at massive discounts.

Let's wait to see how they'll actually implement "pay in roubles" for Europe.

Did you forget that EU was "proven" to be utterly hostile just a month ago? It takes time to break previous agreements while keeping flow going.

Trying to gouge said market just increases the incentive to end any dependence on Russian energy. The West can afford to end its dependence. Russia cannot afford to lose Western markets. Simple as that.

West already declared it will drop all dependency on Russian energy at any cost, so this consideration went out of the window.

Yes, you "can afford it" - years down the line - but until you do your only option is to pay Russia as much as it will ask in whatever currency it asks.

Or destroy industrial capacity to reduce gas and oil consumption and drop into recession.

[Shrouded]

Sorry you don’t view countering Russian disinfo as worthwhile.

Please don't put words into my mouth. I just don't think anyone here is really falling for his disinformation, and the only legitimacy he gets is what we're willing to give him. From my perspective, that's absolutely nothing.

Of course, ideally the mods would step in - or at the very least clarify how this subforum is meant to work. It can't possibly be working as intended, can it?

[Shadowferal]

Aren’t China and India kinda at odds right now? So you got… China?

A losing battle; Chinese oil and gas company cancels $500m investment in Russia

The state-run Sinopec Group hit pause on plans to market Russian gas in China after realising that a senior figure at Russia’s Sibur was a long-term ally of Vladimir Putin.

The move marks a hardening in China’s policy towards Russia amid the invasion, with which it has maintained regular trade amid a slew of sanctions by the West.

China has leaned towards Russia in the conflict, declining to call out its actions and endorsing its complaints about Nato’s expansion eastward.

But the Chinese government is said to be concerned about facing sanctions itself and is encouraging companies to err on the side of caution when dealing with Russia.

[Shalcker]

Both of these countries have you under embargo, so... No.

Japan specifically noted they'll look at their energy security first as far as imports go.

And the thing is - you can't get both China and India. Contributing to one inherently alienates the other, and neither of them have the capital or interest in propping up your dying empire anyway.

We already got both China and India, with India buying Russian oil in rupees, and China getting their gas via pipelines.

Western markets are where the money is. Simple as that.

It doesn't matter how much money they offer if in the end you steal them rather then let Russia use them (remember those CBR asset freezes?)

[Shadowferal]

Japan specifically noted they'll look at their energy security first as far as imports go. We already got both China and India, with India buying Russian oil in rupees, and China getting their gas via pipelines. It doesn't matter how much money they offer if in the end you steal them rather then let Russia use them (remember those CBR asset freezes?)

You have nothing more than empty claims...but then that's what propaganda is.

[Easo]

Another round of talks - this time face to face - will happen tomorrow, again in Turkey.

Russia is already raising the torture video at state level and you can expect full propaganda push regarding it. The more this happens, the more people from countries supporting Ukraine will ask hard questions - it is not something Ukraine needs right now.

They could've done worse and doled out a bit of reciprocity all in the name of war. Which is what this is no matter what Putin calls it. But I should wonder that they aren't glad that they're pows now, and will get treated far better than active soldiers for Russia.

Can you rephrase the last sentence? I am not sure what you meant. o.O

We cannot know what really happened due to the fog of war. Maybe those prisoners shot themselves in the legs to blame Ukraine afterwards. Hard proof or GTFO.

Is there a point to your attempt of sarcasm?

It always baffles and saddens me how often some posters have some kind of twisted morality. People shelling civilians, bombing maternity wards and committing war crimes? Hey, it's war, what did you expect? Nothing to see here. War criminals being wounded and not being given a nice cup of coffed and a warm blanket for their efforts? Inexcusable.

You get what you fucking deserve. You have no rights to cry about human rights violations when you're shelling civilians on purpose.

Ah, clear, because fuck rules, emotions are more important.

And I wouldn't be surprised if they own up to it. A military court will take all into consideration including the fact that their wounds were likely seen to.

They won't. If you have followed the civil war in Donbas you should be very well aware that aside from OSCE complaining no one really got any punishment. That goes for rebels too.

You are all idioticly short sighted, you don't shoot pows because now the next group of Russians that are hold up in some building rather then surrendering are alot more likely to try and shoot you and make a breakout.

Finally, thank you! Plus add the very real possibility that your own POWs will be treated worse, it becomes a cycle.

And how would these Russians know pows are getting shot?

Rebels absolutely would and already do know, there already is a video where they are promising the same in answer, they don't have phone bans. The actual Russian army? Slowly, via rumours and the smuggled phones. This is 21st century, good luck trying to hide this.

Depends what you mean by pressing water issues I guess, but china definitely has water issues. Stirrings of drought reminiscent of US southwest, oncoming ground water depletion reminiscent of the US midwest, and fairly extreme water pollution problems, without a good referent. Ohio before the clean water act maybe, but worse & over a much larger area.

Clear. I assume this means controlling mountain rivers. Regardless, no large scale war is possible here, at least not on ground. Does not mean China might not have some agreement with Pakistan, though.

Plenty of excuses for it. They can be a deserter or fertilizer.

And another one...

Welcome to war, war is shit.

I listened to the original, judging by what they were saying, they captured an artillery team that was shelling Kharkiv, so literal war criminals, and were searching for officers - unlike grunts, those deserve to go to trial in Hague. At least they bandaged legs of those who were losing much blood...

I have a feeling some are very much dead right now. But I am sure this thread will try to smartass about me "feeling something".
Also, yes, as I have repeatedly said - war sucks.

[Shalcker]

Not so correct: 50% of Northstream 2 financing is from Gazprom.

That investment already paid off in 2021 with gas price increases (Gazprom profits there already surpassed entire pipeline cost)

[Gaidax]

That video most certainly should not have happened, feels aside, it just gives ammo for Russians.

Ukrainians need to know better, they are the ones relying on the Western support and that does come with the strings attached.

Just should be smart really.

[XDurionX]

That investment already paid off in 2021 with gas price increases (Gazprom profits there already surpassed entire pipeline cost)

Those things are completely unrelated? 100% of the investments in NS2 are lost at this point.

[Forogil]

That investment already paid off in 2021 with gas price increases (Gazprom profits there already surpassed entire pipeline cost)

Pure bullshit. That's not how financing works.

[Shalcker]

Those things are completely unrelated? 100% of the investments in NS2 are lost at this point.

Another year of record profits will allow to easily swallow this bitter pill.

[Collegeguy]

And another one...

There have been Russian soldiers shooting themselves in the legs in order to go home from low morale. How do you know that the Russian soldiers didn't ask the Ukrainians to shoot them in the legs. This is the fog of war.

[Gaidax]

I am sure that Nord Stream 2 will eventually be up and running. Putin is not eternal and neither is this new Cold War.

It will probably take some years to get to that point, but eventually it will happen. You can bet there will be a Reset 2.0/3.0 and so on.

[Shalcker]

Pure bullshit. That's not how financing works.

It's company investment paid with company money.

Billions lost on one line, even more billions gained on another, still the most profitable years ever.

[XDurionX]

Another year of record profits will allow to easily swallow this bitter pill.

Ir will be a year of 10-15% of your economy going down the drain, so no.

[Shadowferal]

Russia is already raising the torture video at state level and you can expect full propaganda push regarding it. The more this happens, the more people from countries supporting Ukraine will ask hard questions - it is not something Ukraine needs right now.

...and dismissed as you called it; propaganda.

Can you rephrase the last sentence? I am not sure what you meant. o.O

Russian soldiers freezing with substandard equipment, hungry...MREs dated 2002...seriously? And a leadership that doesn't care since...conscripts..

Rebels absolutely would and already do know, there already is a video where they are promising the same in answer, they don't have phone bans. The actual Russian army? Slowly, via rumours and the smuggled phones. This is 21st century, good luck trying to hide this.

Rebels? Those that are getting shot by Russians who don't seem to regard them as such?

[Forogil]

It's company investment paid with company money.

And still the money is lost, so we can add financing to the list of things you are unaware of.

Once more you lied, and when confronted you add some unrelated facts.

[Gaidax]

I think people should not worry much about Gazprom's P&L, I would not be surprised if the whole Nord Stream 2 project cost them less than the losses incurred by Russian corruption. It's a huge milking cow for all kinds of people.

[Easo]

Update about those talks - will last for 3 days, from 28th to 30th March.

That video most certainly should not have happened, feels aside, it just gives ammo for Russians.

Ukrainians need to know better, they are the ones relying on the Western support and that does come with the strings attached.

Just should be smart really.

Hah, good luck with that. I expect more excesses from everyone involved. The rebels were by default going on at the start how they will not spare any surrendering "Azov nazi". Well, they are mostly sparing them, but some reports are... dark.
Right now it's shitstorm on Russian channels, morons are demanding vengeance and all that. No one sees the obvious cycle of idiocy this brings, everyone thinks they have the right.

...and dismissed as you called it; propaganda. Russian soldiers freezing with substandard equipment, hungry...MREs dated 2002...seriously? And a leadership that doesn't care since...conscripts.. Rebels? Those that are getting shot by Russians who don't seem to regard them as such?

Ah yes, because everyone in the West will dismiss it. Surely.

What does some MREs gotta do with it? You have lost me.

What are you talking about? What rebels shot at by Russians? What?! Rebels are the primary force pushing from Donbas and at Mariupol. WTF? I can imagine some friendly fire incident, everyone in this war has had some, but why the hell would Russian army shoot at Russian rebels?

There have been Russian soldiers shooting themselves in the legs in order to go home from low morale. How do you know that the Russian soldiers didn't ask the Ukrainians to shoot them in the legs. This is the fog of war.

You are trying too hard.