"World of Warcraft: Exploring Azeroth - Kalimdor" Lore and Updates [Spoilers]

[florclorbromiod]

The problem we've got is contradiction.

Some could say that the return of the night elf mages could have helped the night elf numbers, but even before that - we had night elves everywhere across the continents.
We had night elves in Quel'Thalas, Outland, Northrend, Azuremyst Isle.

Don't see how, the people in Dire Maul already got massacred once. How many survivors could there have been?

[Sorshen]

Who's buying this stuff ever since they pissed on Chronicles?

[florclorbromiod]

Lets not pretend that Blizzard ever gave a single fuck about population numbers.

No universe of WoW's size does. Warhammer 40K doesn't either. But they clearly said the Night Elves are 'very few' and then they get genocided so even if we don't think about numbers, the words 'very few', 'genocide' and 'fighting the whole Horde on their own' do not make sense in the same sentence.

[Holdodlig]

Feels like the night elves will be the scapegoat for the "FaCtIoNs ArE cOrE wArCrAfT fEaTuRe". Sad. I would have loved to play with my friends in the opposite faction.

[Khaza-R]

No universe of WoW's size does. Warhammer 40K doesn't either. But they clearly said the Night Elves are 'very few' and then they get genocided so even if we don't think about numbers, the words 'very few', 'genocide' and 'fighting the whole Horde on their own' do not make sense in the same sentence.

Other than that line, I don't believe that point is ever addressed or even brought up again in the story.

And its also from 2004 where they had to justify Night Elves translating from an entire army in WC3 to just being a member of the Alliance. Because when they first announced them as an Alliance race there was a lot of whining on b.net forums that it made the factions extremely lopsided in terms of power. And that's where a lot of the problems for the Night Elves began. They were basically hamfisted into the vacant spot left by high elves.

[DatToffer]

The logistics of the Night Elf population moving from beng spread across the whole continent to mass moving into a single tree grown in the span of a few years is one of the powerful contrivances the franchise has ever produced. The only one dumber is the part where they ditch their gender roles and nocturnal lifecycles in order to become vassals of a human kingdom they never met to protect from an oppponent who's net population came from those who could fit on ships stolen from a single harbor.

There's a few steps to that process, but basically yes, I agree with that.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Just as I expected, always and always the statue quo, sigh...

[Synvanas]

Of all the races, BEs rely the most on there always been as many people of a race as the plot demands and Blizzard completely ignoring demographics and logistics whenever it suits them. Humans, Gnomes and Orcs are runner-ups.

Yes, but this is because the High/Blood Elves is the race that was treated in the most unfair way by Blizzard, population-wise. They made up the 90% loss in a time when they had not WoW in mind, so they didn't think that a number so much high was really important, they only needed a justification to shift their culture from High Elves to Blood Elves because Blizzard wanted them to become more powerful and active in the world, after they chose to create a new race of powerful Elves in Kalimdor. That percentage is canon and so officially they have to stick their guns to it to this day, but exactly because it's way too high, they have to ignore the consequences of it most of the times.

Also because realistically it's actually impossible that the Scourge killed 9 High Elves out of 10. First, because the race was spread all around Dalaran and the other Alliance kingdoms as well. Secondly, because in Quel'thalas the Scourge followed a linear path of destruction (the Dead Scar) and it's logistically impossible for the Scourge to hunt down and kill the bulk of the population of the Kingdom, especially because a lot of them hid in the forests and Arthas was in kind of a hurry to reach the Sunwell.

Silvermoon was destroyed but the majority of the people didn't live there, they were spread all around Quel'thalas and outside of it as well. This would be like saying the majority of the population of England lives in London. As you can see, it's nonsense.

So since a great injustice was done to this race with that high percentage of losses in the past , I now say it's actually fair that Blizzard mostly ignores the bad consequences about their population nowadays.

[Super Dickmann]

There's a few steps to that process, but basically yes, I agree with that.

There are further steps, like ditching their stance on the arcane for a class addition premised on them accepting dudes who practiced mass sacrifice and sucked on a demon mutation-free for thousands of years or Tyrande accepting love and peace in BFA/SL, but the neutering of the night elves began as soon as they moved from the RTS.

[Aucald]

The point I'm making is that the compendiums aren't relevant, whereas most of the books are, since they either give exclusive story info or explore the characters, notwithstanding their quality. Things like the Exploring books are basically a way for people to get a lot of the in-game lore in a condensed form with a spin attached in the form of characters commenting on it. They've the most in common with the UVGs from back in the day which are also more about the presentation and art than the content. Even the books and stories that aren't what you'd call essential do at least give new information of some kind, but these compendiums tend not to. Say, you won't be any poorer for not having read Path of the Damned or Glory back in the day or Dark Mirror or We Ride Forth now, but they flesh out emotional and story beats in the way the UVG and Exploring books don't.

The term "compendium" puts me in mind of reference-type material like the Grimoire or the Chronicle series - those contain a lot of directly relevant and linking lore that I would say is important, if not sometimes critical, to the story being told. The Exploring series, like the UVG, I agree is pretty much supplemental. Although the UVG did have some important lore bits in it that you could find nowhere else at the time, for whatever reason. Those aside, material like the manga series or the various side-stories tend to beat out important short stories like Path of the Damned, Elegy/A Good War, or Edge of Night in terms of quantity. There's a lot more in the way of supplemental side-stories than there are critical lore side-stories.

[TickTickTick]

I know it's just a fantasy, but it's easier for me to believe in an evil blue man living in a hell and needing some sigils to open a portal to a land where you can print gods, than that there's still any point in AvH war. That shit going on in Ashenvale is a forced crap at this point. Especially since in one region it seems like there's a full on war then in another A and H seem to be friends.

[Jastall]

Yes, but this is because the High/Blood Elves is the race that was treated in the most unfair way by Blizzard, population-wise. They made up the 90% loss in a time when they had not WoW in mind, so they didn't think that a number so much high was really important, they only needed a justification to shift their culture from High Elves to Blood Elves because Blizzard wanted them to become more powerful and active in the world, after they chose to create a new race of powerful Elves in Kalimdor. That percentage is canon and so officially they have to stick their guns to it to this day, but exactly because it's way too high, they have to ignore the consequences of it most of the times.

Also because realistically it's actually impossible that the Scourge killed 9 High Elves out of 10. First, because the race was spread all around Dalaran and the other Alliance kingdoms as well. Secondly, because in Quel'thalas the Scourge followed a linear path of destruction (the Dead Scar) and it's logistically impossible for the Scourge to hunt down and kill the bulk of the population of the Kingdom, especially because a lot of them hid in the forests and Arthas was in kind of a hurry to reach the Sunwell.

Silvermoon was destroyed but the majority of the people didn't live there, they were spread all around Quel'thalas and outside of it as well. This would be like saying the majority of the population of England lives in London. As you can see, it's nonsense.

So since a great injustice was done to this race with that high percentage of losses in the past , I now say it's actually fair that Blizzard mostly ignores the bad consequences about their population nowadays.

Being "realistic", an army that is highly numerous, has no feelings whatsoever, no need to ever stop, no independence of thought, multiple weapons of mass destruction via plagues and such and is ordered to not just attack but destroy an enclaved nation is probably going to be quite through in its massacre. It makes sense that the Scourge inflicts horrendous casualties. 90% is of course hyperbolic on the writer's parts because they had no thought as to who would remain if 90% of a population was actually slain. For context, the hardest hit countries in WW2, those who had cities basically razed, tons of fighting happen on their turf and some concentration camps or other joyful business on the side, suffered about 25% of their populations in casualties and that was already quite crippling. 90% requires an extremely systematic hunting down of any and every civilian and would cause irrecoverable damage to their demographics, culture, talent pool, economics and such. Yet BEs have more characters active than any race besides humans and are chilling in their capital no problem so those horrendous losses hardly seem to matter to them at all.

But then that only reinforces my point, when canon has to be ignored or the story of an entire race makes no sense at all.

[Moonrage]

- The Shatterspear trolls signed a peace treaty before the Cataclysm with the night elves (non-aggression pact), broke it afterwards, and now have renewed their peace treaty after the Battle of Darkshore, but remain within the Horde, providing them with a strategic base deep in night elf territory.

There is also a brand-new Shatterspear troll character and chieftain, Ohseso, loyal to the Horde and its interests.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Ohseso

So it's only a matter of time before these trolls turn against the night elves, got it.

- Some of the Horde honestly think they should not be forgiven for the Burning of Teldrassil, and silently contemplated its ruins for a very long time.

That's nice and all, but this doesn't mean anything. If they really regretted their actions, they'd urge their fellow Horde members to depart from Northern Kalimdor completely.

ALLIANCE:

The night elves:
- The Alliance has retaken (most of) Darkshore, except for Shatterspear Vale, but has abandoned Bashal'Aran, its base of operations after the Battle of Darkshore. Ameth'Aran, the other Highborne city in Darkshore, is also in ruins. The Night Warrior, or the “Avatar of the New Moon" empowered the Kaldorei Empire against the trolls in pre-Sundering times, and there are other avatars also, but undescribed, for each different phase of Mu'sha. The night elves still somewhat patrol Darkshore's roads, but seem to have their forces and attentions diverted elsewhere (perhaps other parts of Kalimdor). However, post-Battle of Darkshore, most life in Darkshore is seemingly gone, or essentially dead, and much of the land seems abandoned or uninhabitable. Onu, the Ancient of Lore in Darkshore, welcomed the Horde representatives to the Grove of the Ancients, and even shared some of his ancient wisdom with them.

Abandoning Bashal'Aran after it was rebuild makes no sense at all. Also all the wildlife being dead and the land being practically unhabitable would be the cause for major conflict. The night elves would never forgive the Horde for this.

- Ashenvale remains heavily contested between the Alliance and the Horde, or rather the night elves and the Horde. The night elves control Astranaar, Stardust Spire, the Howling Vale, and the Shrine of Mel'Thrandis, and successfully reclaimed the Mor'shan Ramparts (the Horde outpost entrance into southern Ashenvale). The night elves and Horde are still fighting fiercely over other bases, such as the Splintertree Post and the Warsong Lumber Camp.

No surprise right here. How can there even be talks about an armistice if the Horde keeps invading Ashenvale?

- Azshara, or at least some parts, is also a point of perpetual conflict - with the night elves of Talrendis Point constantly attacking the Horde base of Valormok, and it is feared by some in the Horde that they might seize control of the base, the Horde Council is to be contacted for reinforcements.

Tyrande did "give" Azshara to the Horde after the events of MOP. Makes little sense for the night elves to reclaim land they consider cursed anyway. Again, something the writers completely forgot about.

- Mount Hyjal and Nordrassil are not really mentioned (other than an ancient owl creature Ban'thalas being Malorne's ally and having stood together in the War of the Ancients) but the Cenarion Circle is confirmed to still accept druids from both factions. No new capital of the night elves is discussed.

The Cenarion Circle should've become a night elf only faction after the War of Thorns, I said what I said.

[florclorbromiod]

Other than that line, I don't believe that point is ever addressed or even brought up again in the story.

And its also from 2004 where they had to justify Night Elves translating from an entire army in WC3 to just being a member of the Alliance. Because when they first announced them as an Alliance race there was a lot of whining on b.net forums that it made the factions extremely lopsided in terms of power. And that's where a lot of the problems for the Night Elves began. They were basically hamfisted into the vacant spot left by high elves.

The Night Elves had been chilling for most of their history and got invaded hard by the Legion and had to sacrifice their immortality, why is it so hard to believe that they lost their top dog position and had to make alliances?

Who exactly complained in 2004 that the Nelves were too strong to be in the Alliance? Their military was getting beaten on their own turf by ONE orc clan.

[DemonHunter18]

technically no one should have any capable army at this point... literally.

[Radeghost]

- Azshara's pollution from goblin industrialization has tainted Durotar's natural water supplies, perhaps permanently, resulting in regular water shipments from the tauren in Mulgore.

False, there are none. I haven't seen even one of them.

- Gallywix's Pleasure Palace still remains, Gallywix is still gone and nowhere to be found seemingly.

That's true.

Misha (the bear) enjoys riding the cars on the rocket tracks sometimes.

Weird, never seen that.

- There is a new dock at the Echo Isles supporting travel to Zulduzar, further connecting the two troll factions of the Horde.

That's not true, there's no new dock at the Echo Isles.

- The Shatterspear trolls signed a peace treaty before the Cataclysm with the night elves (non-aggression pact), broke it afterwards, and now have renewed their peace treaty after the Battle of Darkshore, but remain within the Horde, providing them with a strategic base deep in night elf territory.

That's untrue, they are still hostile towards the Night Elves.

[quote]There is also a brand-new Shatterspear troll character and chieftain, Ohseso, loyal to the Horde and its interests.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Ohseso[quote]
He's nowhere to be seen

- Some of the Horde honestly think they should not be forgiven for the Burning of Teldrassil, and silently contemplated its ruins for a very long time.

Understandable

- The Earthen Ring is still active and open to both factions' members.

How so? Where are they now? Why can't I join them, then?

The humans:
- Control Tirisgarde Keep in Durotar, the Northwatch Expeditionary Unit remains posted there.
- Controls and has reinforced Honor's Stand in the neighboring Barrens.

Uhh, not true at all, nothing changed since Cataclysm in that case.

The night elves:

- Mount Hyjal and Nordrassil are not really mentioned (other than an ancient owl creature Ban'thalas being Malorne's ally and having stood together in the War of the Ancients) but the Cenarion Circle is confirmed to still accept druids from both factions. No new capital of the night elves is discussed.

Not true at all, I can't join CC as my druid.

- The Cenarion Hold has been re-established in Silithus, Staghelm Point is also restored, with a new Sentinel Tree planted by the druids like they did against Ragnaros in the Cataclysm.

Untrue, there's no new sentinel tree to be seen.

[quote]The draenei:
- The Exodar is successfully repaired and capable of travel, Velen is still leading the draenei! But their people favored the Vindicaar to include all of Azeroth's forces against the Legion during the last war.[quote]
No, it's still under repair, just go to Exodar to see it yourself.

- They are on cordial (if not friendly) terms with the Horde, and several draenei, Ya'rika and Kea'ton, gave the Horde representatives a tour guide of the Exodar.

Weird, last time I checked, I was hostile with them on my Horde char.


Either this book is non-cannon, or the game is.

[FlemmMinis]

[QUOTE=Radeghost;53510296]False, there are none. I haven't seen even one of them.


That's true.


Weird, never seen that.


That's not true, there's no new dock at the Echo Isles.


That's untrue, they are still hostile towards the Night Elves.

[quote]There is also a brand-new Shatterspear troll character and chieftain, Ohseso, loyal to the Horde and its interests.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Ohseso[quote]
He's nowhere to be seen

Understandable


How so? Where are they now? Why can't I join them, then?



Uhh, not true at all, nothing changed since Cataclysm in that case.

The night elves:


Not true at all, I can't join CC as my druid.

Untrue, there's no new sentinel tree to be seen.

[quote]The draenei:
- The Exodar is successfully repaired and capable of travel, Velen is still leading the draenei! But their people favored the Vindicaar to include all of Azeroth's forces against the Legion during the last war.

No, it's still under repair, just go to Exodar to see it yourself.

Weird, last time I checked, I was hostile with them on my Horde char.


Either this book is non-cannon, or the game is.

There literally is a dock though.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Guess the scale of a genocide is very relative.

Draenei were decimated in several grand cities and hunted down on a whole planet.

While Night elves lost what ? The population of an island ? With one big city ?

The tree was said to be a whole nation with multiple towns and villages out side of darnassus, it’s the equivalent out wiping out Quel'thalas pretty much.

[Khaza-R]

The Night Elves had been chilling for most of their history and got invaded hard by the Legion and had to sacrifice their immortality, why is it so hard to believe that they lost their top dog position and had to make alliances?

Who exactly complained in 2004 that the Nelves were too strong to be in the Alliance? Their military was getting beaten on their own turf by ONE orc clan.

I mean, the curse of knowledge makes it nearly impossible to see the game from the perspective from someone in 2003 but I get your point. I suppose my answer would be that it was never shown that way at the time. Yes, their forests got invaded and destroyed but for the most part it seemed like they didn't just throw their ranks at the Legion but rather evaded them until they were forced to fight at Hyjal. The whole devastated from the Legion part came after the fact as highlighted in their racial intro.

And yes, people definitely complained about Night Elves being an OP addition. Just like they argued undead would never be a race because they were too mindless. Or that people literally raged that Gnomes were the last Alliance race to be announced. The b.net forums were fun times back then.

Also that one orc clan was getting beat until they decided to drink demon juice. Not really a great example to make your point.

[Theangryone]

So the Alliance now have two space ships with Death Star lasers on them and still not use them for anything