Why aren’t dungeons auto-balanced a tiny amount each week?

[garicasha]

In coming expansions I really think it’d be wise to have mythic+ auto-adjusted a very small amount each week.

The servers would keep stats on completion rates and wipe data, then at the end of the week something like:

Dungeon that bricked the most keys: +5 sec to timer
Dungeon completed the most: -5 secs
Boss that caused the most wipes: -1% heath and damage
Boss that caused the fewest wipes: +1 health and damage
Dungeon attempted the least: -1% to trash health

The idea being that making frequent tiny adjustments early is way better than waiting 6 weeks and then having these big balance changes, adding or removing 1-2 minutes from the timer, etc.

It would also push the hardest and easiest dungeons closer to the middle in terms of difficulty much sooner.

There could be limits, too, this wouldn’t make all dungeons the same length.

The 20, 25+ crowd might want more static health values, this change is more intended for the majority

[Mysterymask]

That doesn't account for a LOT of what ifs though..
What if Dungeon X is hard with one affix and easy with another
What happens when its a bad affix on that harder dungeon and no one actually runs it except some less experienced people.
Or a week when lesser experienced players don't run said dungeons but a bunch of fully decked out folks decided to push keys.
AI and programming loves routine and there's too many wrenches thrown in for that to work properly or worse get abused.

[garicasha]

This would be in addition to some normal balancing, I mean if a dungeon at release is just way too hard (Cathedral of Night was clown pants)

Shoulda worded the title a little different.

[epigramx]

No. If anything the game should be more stable. E.g. keep all raids constantly relevant; why not have Ulduar still be hard to do on hard mode?

[XDurionX]

People would just intentionally fail the keys to make the "right" ones easier.

[epigramx]

People would just intentionally fail the keys to make the "right" ones easier.

Yes. And generally the system is inapplicable; they will never be able to keep it stable since "what fails" can depend on 1,000 factors; even if no maliciousness is involved: they'll have no idea what happened and how it happened (e.g. christmas vacation may increase "failure rate").

If anything the game needs way more stability; e.g. keep all content relevant; why not enter ICC and do it in hard mode today?

[garicasha]

People would just intentionally fail the keys to make the "right" ones easier.

I don't think that'd be as much of a problem as people think. MMO-champ is this vocal minority of 1% of the players, and people doing 15, 20, 25+ keys are way overrepresented here. And certainly some people, especially at higher keys, would be willing to brick a key to mess with the stats. But that's the thing; if you balance a tiny amount...I mean it would take thousands of people intentionally bricking their key to move the timer a whopping five seconds...people have better things to do.

But if one dungeon was really hated, that's why I'm talking about auto-balancing it...reduce the health of the trash, increase the timer, do whatever and then people won't hate it as much anymore.

I'm guessing that for every person willing to brick a key there's 10 casuals running +4s, +5s, +2s, etc., that couldn't possibly care less about which key they have.

I have posted similar ideas in the past I think and it wasn't really that popular. But ask yourself...is the way that the devs balance the game now so good it couldn't be improved upon? I mean even if it's not automatic, I still think that fine-tuning dungeons 1-3% every week right after release is better than waiting a few months and significantly changing the difficulty. Again, except at the bleeding edge where the player's desires are somewhat different. (And the toughest low level keys are not necessarily the toughest high level keys.)

[Vakna]

If there is absolutely anything that we have learned from the past in MMO's it's that any automated system can be and will be exploited. It's not a matter of if it's a matter how how badly and when.

[Mysterymask]

I don't think that'd be as much of a problem as people think. MMO-champ is this vocal minority of 1% of the players, and people doing 15, 20, 25+ keys are way overrepresented here. And certainly some people, especially at higher keys, would be willing to brick a key to mess with the stats. But that's the thing; if you balance a tiny amount...I mean it would take thousands of people intentionally bricking their key to move the timer a whopping five seconds...people have better things to do.

But if one dungeon was really hated, that's why I'm talking about auto-balancing it...reduce the health of the trash, increase the timer, do whatever and then people won't hate it as much anymore.

I'm guessing that for every person willing to brick a key there's 10 casuals running +4s, +5s, +2s, etc., that couldn't possibly care less about which key they have.

I have posted similar ideas in the past I think and it wasn't really that popular. But ask yourself...is the way that the devs balance the game now so good it couldn't be improved upon? I mean even if it's not automatic, I still think that fine-tuning dungeons 1-3% every week right after release is better than waiting a few months and significantly changing the difficulty. Again, except at the bleeding edge where the player's desires are somewhat different. (And the toughest low level keys are not necessarily the toughest high level keys.)

and that's once again the issue...

on one hand dungeons are already auto nerfed as it goes on through gear upgrades and if there is something extra egregious it will catch their attention. You cant nerf something that's a L2P issue after all. We also will end up getting the Eddy Gordo effect where a dungeon that is hard for new players but easy for experts get nerfed to the ground because the lesser skilled players are hitting a brick wall that's a small hurdle for the better ones.

[Temp name]

No. If anything the game should be more stable. E.g. keep all raids constantly relevant; why not have Ulduar still be hard to do on hard mode?

Because most people don't want to do the same content for 10+ years.
If every raid released gave relevant loot.. Why bother doing the new stuff, when your BiS gear probably comes from old raids?

[epigramx]

Because most people don't want to do the same content for 10+ years.
If every raid released gave relevant loot.. Why bother doing the new stuff, when your BiS gear probably comes from old raids?

I get your argument and I agree in part but there's a solution. Keep it as a feat of strength only (no loot and no points); that way you can prove skill without feeling the necessity to do it yet (only when the guild has nothing else to do and always optional).

The true problem here is a development one I believe; it would be hard to actually keep it stable; if they keep changing core systems and borrowed powers all the time then even the mage tower gets weird imbalances (as we saw recently).

[orgonutil]

it is not good becouse with diferent affixes each week, the worst dungeon in a week it is not necessary the worst dungeon in the next week

[shyguybman]

I don't think they should be adjusted weekly but I do think there should be adjustments more frequently. They have been better at doing it this expansion than BFA imo though.

[Alroxas]

No. If anything the game should be more stable. E.g. keep all raids constantly relevant; why not have Ulduar still be hard to do on hard mode?

First because Ulduar is old content. Old content should not be tuned to be inline with current content. Additionally, you'd have a lot more folks upset that they can't do transmog runs anymore.

Unless you're wanting some sort of TW versions of old content so that TW <old content> is just as difficult as it was back in the day. However even that has proven difficult. Just look at the return of the Mage Tower. Even stripping players of legendaries, covenant abilities, older legendaries, and still Blizzard devs had to go and make adjustments to not only the scenarios but also to various items because they were too OP relative to everything else (i.e. Timeless Tanazite gems from heroic Black Morass, Crusader enchant, Decanter trinket).

[Sucralose]

It is a massive amount of work for questionable payoffs.

[epigramx]

First because Ulduar is old content. Old content should not be tuned to be inline with current content.

That's just an unjustified desire of yours; it's completely subjective; why don't we delete "old content" if it's just 1 day old if we are that subjective.

Additionally, you'd have a lot more folks upset that they can't do transmog runs anymore.

That's a non-argument; 'timewalked' runs would have a switch.

difficult

Devs being bad at doing their only job isn't an excuse.

[Raven]

I hope not, but then again i want it dungeons to be really hard since it feels more like a accomplishment when i do finally beat it.

[Kokolums]

this should apply to pvp, not pve. as in, if you use a cookie cutter pvp team, you get a rating deduction.

[Mysterymask]

this should apply to pvp, not pve. as in, if you use a cookie cutter pvp team, you get a rating deduction.

That is beyond stupid..
"Oh you figured out the good way to do it...too bad people kept doing it so fuck you, you get less points!" I mean why punish a spike for being a spike?

[Alroxas]

That's just an unjustified desire of yours; it's completely subjective; why don't we delete "old content" if it's just 1 day old if we are that subjective.

I mean how justified is your desire to have all raids constantly relevant? Do you realize the amount of work required to make sure that hey items added in this new raid tier do not trivialize previous raid tiers or XYZ mechanic we put in this raid tier is completely invalidated because of gear from a previous raid tier?

Case in point: Tier 19 Resto Druid 4pc set bonus was so strong back in Legion that players still used it late into the next raid tier because it was "better" even at the expense of lower ilv. Blizzard devs had to nerf it twice before Legion was over.

Devs being bad at doing their only job isn't an excuse.

I mean if you believe you could do better, why don't you go work for them and make it better? Or better yet start your own MMORPG and have it out last WoW. The rest of us will be waiting.