I tell you why WoW and MMORPGs are struggling in this day and age...

[Osmeric]

Which you wouldn’t really expect if millions of chineses subs were just gone one report from the next you’d expect a big dip and then a big raise as they started to be counted again.

Didn't they pause reporting active accounts during Wrath? I mean, it was at 12M near the end, but I think China was back up by that point.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

That's only three months though, and it doesn't say the game was offline. As I recall, Blizzard counted a sub in China as anyone that logs in that month. It sounds like people with accounts could still play.

Can’t seem to find any thing that says every log in was counted as a sub, all I’ve found is some forum post about time cards and how subs are counted when the card runs out of time but wasn’t able to find any thing to back that up either.

[NineSpine]

Can’t seem to find any thing that says every log in was counted as a sub, all I’ve found is some forum post about time cards and how subs are counted when the card runs out of time but wasn’t able to find any thing to back that up either.

I think it's safe to say that Blizzard used whatever metric gave them the biggest number.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Didn't they pause reporting active accounts during Wrath? I mean, it was at 12M near the end, but I think China was back up by that point.

Looking at the old mmoc report chart they were still reporting and there was even a report in the time period in question.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...on-Subscribers

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Wrath was delayed in China due to their censorship, but I don’t recall it every being “shutdown” and I believe their payment mode didn’t change until MoP.

There was a couple months where it shut down due to publishers changing and then the game it self was allowed up but they weren’t allowed new accounts or to charge current accounts.

[Zodiark]

That is 100% pure opinion, headcanon, whatever you want to call it. You pay your sub to access the game servers as is. The end. Full stop. You have no expectations, rights, or entitlements beyond those. There's a reason "Ghostcrawler promised me a pony" is a meme. Nowhere anywhere does it say that you're entitled to be able to earn everything in the game simply because you're subbed to it.

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I saw posts on the day the Cypher was announced declaring it "dead in the water" "meaningless" "not true content" "insert other negative thing here" because it didn't contribute to player power in keys and raids.

Yeah I don't know where you think I was going with that post. However. I assure you that I never felt like each and every item in game should be attainable just with my sub. I believe that it was a popular opinion of the subscription model that by paying a monthly sub you got to play the game and in doing so could have a chance to earn rewards in the form of gear and mounts etc.
Thus people got their knickers in a twist whenever a cash shop item came out that was cooler looking that most things they could otherwise attain themselves for their sub fee alone.

[MoanaLisa]

What kind of copium are you smoking that makes you look at WoW dying & FFXIV thriving so much they have to pause purchases of the game & say "it must be the genre's fault"

Why does everyone ignore the plain fact that all of this happened after they offered a free trial for most of the game with no subscription required? Does anyone really believe that they would be in this mess if you still had to pay for the base game + expansion + subscription? Most of the restrictions on the trial are trivial if you want to check out the game solo. There's about 100 hours of MMO game there for free. Of fucking course people are going to check it out.

[Sucralose]

Why does everyone ignore the plain fact that all of this happened after they offered a free trial for most of the game with no subscription required? Does anyone really believe that they would be in this mess if you still had to pay for the base game + expansion + subscription? Most of the restrictions on the trial are trivial if you want to check out the game solo. There's about 100 hours of MMO game there for free. Of fucking course people are going to check it out.

I don't know to be honest. FF14 has a far more engaged and thought out leveling system then wow does. There is even a hard mode style leveling system via deeper dungeons. WoW leveling feels kind of like a waste of time. Everything including dungeons are to trivial to be engaging unless you really go out of your way to do so like doing dungeons without a tank or healer.

WoW's big issue isn't its endgame. It is the fact everything is way,way,way to easy until endgame mythic or normal-heroic raiding. It isn't really even a game anymore just a lightshow they lowered the bar so much.

[Vampyrr]

This is so ridiculous. The biggest games most of the time are games that have its players completely invested, like Fortnite and LoL

? You can literally do 1 - 2 matches and just be done for the day. There is no push to stay logged in and playing. You cant generally push high end wow content in 20-40m batches. It requires significantly more investment.

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I don't know to be honest. FF14 has a far more engaged and thought out leveling system then wow does. There is even a hard mode style leveling system via deeper dungeons. WoW leveling feels kind of like a waste of time. Everything including dungeons are to trivial to be engaging unless you really go out of your way to do so like doing dungeons without a tank or healer.

WoW's big issue isn't its endgame. It is the fact everything is way,way,way to easy until endgame mythic or normal-heroic raiding. It isn't really even a game anymore just a lightshow they lowered the bar so much.

Mmmm a SIGNIFICANT part of the FF14 leveling is fetch quests, basic kill quests, and go talk to this person then this person then this person messenger quests. You are correct on the dungeons thing but their run around the world quests are dull and nothing special.

[Soon-TM]

WoW's big issue isn't its endgame. It is the fact everything is way,way,way to easy until endgame mythic or normal-heroic raiding. It isn't really even a game anymore just a lightshow they lowered the bar so much.

The game has a difficulty level of 2 while levelling up and during early endgame, but suddenly you are expected to put up with a difficulty level of 8 if you want to progress your toon beyond WQ gear or slightly higher. It can be definitely jarring for new players (assuming they exist at all, that is).

[NineSpine]

? You can literally do 1 - 2 matches and just be done for the day. There is no push to stay logged in and playing. You cant generally push high end wow content in 20-40m batches. It requires significantly more investment.

Notice how for wow you only counted "pushing high end content" and for other games just being a casual player was enough?

Mmmm a SIGNIFICANT part of the FF14 leveling is fetch quests, basic kill quests, and go talk to this person then this person then this person messenger quests. You are correct on the dungeons thing but their run around the world quests are dull and nothing special.

The FF15 MSQ is only done on the first job you level. You don't have to repeat it on every job. After that, leveling other jobs has a ton of variety.

[HansOlo]

WoW is supposed to struggle after 17 years. This doesn't conclude anything. If you consider everything - it still doing extremely well - and will do so for decades. WoW is the only pillar we have left in classic MMO.

The MMO genre in general is for the kids of the 1990s era. The same with old school dungeon and dragon games.

Kids these days are more into shooters, MOBA and mobile games. Quick in and out - 10min focus capacity, before watching Netflix. You can't make any MMO for this group.

[Miffinat0r]

WoW is supposed to struggle after 17 years. This doesn't conclude anything. If you consider everything - it still doing extremely well - and will do so for decades. WoW is the only pillar we have left in classic MMO.

The MMO genre in general is for the kids of the 1990s era. The same with old school dungeon and dragon games.

Kids these days are more into shooters, MOBA and mobile games. Quick in and out - 10min focus capacity, before watching Netflix. You can't make any MMO for this group.

MOBAs are better than MMORPGs instant action everyone starts at the same level. Good game.

DND is a better game than MMORPGs because the game isn't about rewards or player power but about your character adapting to wierd situations (Also I'm pumped tonight I'm playing a lvl 8 Ancients Paladin...who's a MINOTAUR!)

[Sucralose]

The game has a difficulty level of 2 while levelling up and during early endgame, but suddenly you are expected to put up with a difficulty level of 8 if you want to progress your toon beyond WQ gear or slightly higher. It can be definitely jarring for new players (assuming they exist at all, that is).

I think 2 is a bit to high don't you. Can you name a situation while leveling where you could pull three mobs with only +stam gear on spamming whatever spell was assigned to your number 2 key by default and actually have a realistic chance of dying?

[Miffinat0r]

I think 2 is a bit to high don't you. Can you name a situation while leveling where you could pull three mobs with only +stam gear on spamming whatever spell was assigned to your number 2 key by default and actually have a realistic chance of dying?

I think this is Activision's work tbh. They made the rest of the game a .5 then when you get to M+3 and Normal it goes to a solid 7 and only further from there.

This is also why more new players never stay because there's no community for them it's either you're a 1-hour a day LFR player or hardcore that's who mythic raider. One is focused on because Activision wants more money, the other is focused on because that's who the devs are.

What's the result? Players leave.

[Sucralose]

I think this is Activision's work tbh. They made the rest of the game a .5 then when you get to M+3 and Normal it goes to a solid 7 and only further from there.

This is also why more new players never stay because there's no community for them it's either you're a 1-hour a day LFR player or hardcore that's who mythic raider. One is focused on because Activision wants more money, the other is focused on because that's who the devs are.

What's the result? Players leave.

It is the danger of having a niche product and thinking you appeal to everyone.

[Miffinat0r]

It is the danger of having a niche product and thinking you appeal to everyone.

Well I mean WoW did at one point have a universal product but the market has moved past the game now because players are used to a certain QoL and WoW's outdated systems aren't providing it.

[OrangeJuice]

WoW is shit but Blizzard isn't struggling @400m/quarter. If you want the game to stop being shit then quit playing it. If you're too addicted then simply stop buying anything from the cash shop. If everyone did that then blizzard would have to rely on making a good game to profit instead of depressed addicts who spend their entire disability check every month on mounts/pets. It is that simple. Period. There is nothing else you can do and there isn't some hidden secret reason why WoW is so bad. Thats all it is.