Should WoW adopt a tougher stance on Toxicity in-game?

[m4Zzo928]

Rules for people who can’t be civil. I mean that’s what it is essentially. They can’t even be bothered to be decent, and they need rules or they just fly off the chain? It’s just a joke, people need to start being better human beings, and then things get better. These degenerates want their cake and eat it too, while spreading cancerous behavior into the game.

[Amarys]

So you're saying that companies that punish people for harassing other players in game are actually bad companies? How utterly asinine. As I just mentioned, just telling someone to put the harasser on ignore does nothing but show them and other toxic people that their actions will have absolutely no negative consequences for them. The narrative you are pushing in your post is exactly why WoW's community has gotten so toxic. Because instead of punishing problem players, Blizzard tends to let them run rampant. And if banning players who harass others somehow damages pvp, too bad. People can learn to either be civil or start getting hit with punishments for making someone else's playtime a negative experience.

Again, these action should have zero consequences if there is an ingame tool to safeguard against this. Some players enjoy it, some don't but it's this kind of authoritarian BS that I was talking about. You don't have to play or even interact with "toxic" players in any way if you don't want to, other than that initial message that may cause you to ignore them.. but this would happen anyway, whether a company bans them later or not. If your negative experience is improved knowing that the offending player is punished, then maybe you are also one of those toxic players and shouldn't be playing online games.

[TheRevenantHero]

Imagine if that instantly stopped them from interacting with me in any way shape or form?

Again this is a video game...

I'm not going to repeat myself again. All I will say is that harassment is against WoW's ToS. So either you don't play WoW or you think the rules don't apply to everyone.

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Again, these action should have zero consequences if there is an ingame tool to safeguard against this. Some players enjoy it, some don't but it's this kind of authoritarian BS that I was talking about. You don't have to play or even interact with "toxic" players in any way if you don't want to, other than that initial message that may cause you to ignore them.. but this would happen anyway, whether a company bans them later or not. If your negative experience is improved knowing that the offending player is punished, then maybe you are also one of those toxic players and shouldn't be playing online games.

LMFAO AUTHORITARIAN?! How incredibly overdramatic. Letting toxic players run rampant without threat of punishment is what actually makes a company terrible. If there is never punishment for people being incredibly toxic then the game is definitely trash. I also don't at all follow your logic that if my playtime improves after someone harassing me gets banned that it somehow makes me the real toxic player. As I've said numerous times, harassment is against the ToS. If you don't like that then maybe you should stick to single player games.

[Miffinat0r]

I'm not going to repeat myself again. All I will say is that harassment is against WoW's ToS. So either you don't play WoW or you think the rules don't apply to everyone.

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LMFAO AUTHORITARIAN?! How incredibly overdramatic. Letting toxic players run rampant without threat of punishment is what actually makes a company terrible. If there is never punishment for people being incredibly toxic then the game is definitely trash. I also don't at all follow your logic that if my playtime improves after someone harassing me gets banned that it somehow makes me the real toxic player. As I've said numerous times, harassment is against the ToS. If you don't like that then maybe you should stick to single player games.

People claimed the same thing when Yahoo banned their comments sections. If you went into the cesspit all you found was racism, sexism, and basically opinions from Archie Bunker while hungover. What they forgot about is what made Archie Bunker as a character sellable, it wasn't that he had these opinions, but he could move past them and demonstrate love. That's what sold. Without that callback to love and ignoring our opinions, what you're left with was the Yahoo comments section.

[Dejiko]

I`m going to say yes.
People often argue that they should be allowed to call others "shit" and "trash" based on performance but
if you can`t be civilized and your immediate response to someone underperforming is to debase and browbeat,
i`m not sure your contribution is all that valuable to begin with.

Not everyone will be receptive to even the mildest form of criticism but perhaps they can`t be persuaded to change their habbit regardless of intention.
It takes effort to reach out with a gentle approach, asking and being openminded instead of just rattling off "you`re bad, delete the game." but we`re better
off cultivating an enviroment that wants and attempts to care, rather than one that makes no effort to.

So yes, a tougher stance on toxicity would be nice.

[LTN]

Wow imagine that, leaving a group without insulting them, sounds like a horror story for wow players

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"this is a video game" what kind of nonsense argument is that? Does a public space being video game suddenly allows for normally socially unacceptable behaviors?

It kind of does when you have the powers of a god and can click someone out of existence...

Some people here want a massive bot net style security system watching over every interaction when the problem is instantly solved by right clicking on a frame and scrolling down to mute.

At some point you have to help yourself and stop crying for big brother.

[Amarys]

LMFAO AUTHORITARIAN?! How incredibly overdramatic. Letting toxic players run rampant without threat of punishment is what actually makes a company terrible. If there is never punishment for people being incredibly toxic then the game is definitely trash. I also don't at all follow your logic that if my playtime improves after someone harassing me gets banned that it somehow makes me the real toxic player. As I've said numerous times, harassment is against the ToS. If you don't like that then maybe you should stick to single player games.

You still haven't explained why there has to be a punishment. If ignoring them is the end of it, why do you care?

Harassment on the other hand is completely different an I'm sure they would deal with it but it's definitely not calling someone a mean word. If someone for example tried to bypass the mute by logging into other accounts you can report them and I'm sure they would act.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Problem is their is a lot of sides to toxic behavior. Sometimes you can be ultra toxic by breaking down everything someone says and attacking it or you can break it down and find anything you can possibly nit pick to report and "positively" be toxic as hell as well as you follow the rules and community guidelines of the game, forum, discord, or whatever.

[Grimbold21]

"this is a video game" what kind of nonsense argument is that? Does a public space being video game suddenly allows for normally socially unacceptable behaviors?

The same sort of nonsencial argument that the poster you quoted responded to: A false equivalence

[Triceron]

What people don't fully understand is that the reason why games like FF14 have a successful, less-toxic community doesn't come from enforcement and fear-of-consequences. It comes from the community actually loving and supporting the game.

FF14 has a toxic community. It absolutely still does. People are still getting banned for saying stupid shit. And they will run into the 72 hour suspensions for repeated actions. There are definitely still people being dicks in the game. So is enforcement actually working to dissuade these players? Not really. They aren't really learning enough to continually repeat their actions. They're just gonna find ways to be more careful about expressing their toxicity the next time, or reserve it for the right time.

The rest of the time you're interfacing with people who aren't toxic? You're playing with people who genuinely support the game and the community. It's not something you can foster through having bans and suspensions. It's something you gotta provide through the actual game. Cuz assholes are gonna be around in any game, every game, regardless of what means there are to enforce the rules.

Like look at it this way, this forum is actively moderated and has rules. Can ANYONE say that this place is free from toxicity? Even remotely close to it? It all stems from the community losing faith in supporting the game itself.


Blizzard needs to turn that shit around if any improvement over the community is expected. This includes updating the damn systems so the game isn't fostering expectations that all content has to be done a certain way.

[Miffinat0r]

What people don't fully understand is that the reason why games like FF14 have a successful, less-toxic community doesn't come from enforcement and fear-of-consequences. It comes from the community actually loving and supporting the game.

FF14 has a toxic community. It absolutely still does. People are still getting banned for saying stupid shit. And they will run into the 72 hour suspensions for repeated actions. There are definitely still people being dicks in the game. So is enforcement actually working to dissuade these players? Not really. They aren't really learning enough to continually repeat their actions. They're just gonna find ways to be more careful about expressing their toxicity the next time, or reserve it for the right time.

The rest of the time you're interfacing with people who aren't toxic? You're playing with people who genuinely support the game and the community. It's not something you can foster through having bans and suspensions. It's something you gotta provide through the actual game. Cuz assholes are gonna be around in any game, every game, regardless of what means there are to enforce the rules.

Like look at it this way, this forum is actively moderated and has rules. Can ANYONE say that this place is free from toxicity?

It's a lot better than WoW's forums lol.

[vincink]

That's not how harassment is handled. I really hope you don't work for HR at any company. Because just telling people "just ignore them" when it comes to harassment is asinine.

Having worked in HR, one of the options presented to victims of harassment is "ignore and see if it goes away". Another option is "ask the person to stop and see if it goes away". These are options among other options, including registering a formal complaint and pursuing corrective action. Believe it or not, most harassment cases stop at "ask the person to stop and see if it goes away" because the accused usually gets the idea and stops it. (A record of the harassment incident is retained, though.) Although its importance is dwindling in most HR departments, there is a psychological toolkit for modifying the behavior of another person. One tool in that toolkit is... don't respond to undesired behavior of another person.

[Triceron]

It's a lot better than WoW's forums lol.

I'd even argue that the rules here are more relaxed.

At least you can say FUCK and swear all you want, and it's still not as toxic as the official WoW forums.

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Having worked in HR, one of the options presented to victims of harassment is "ignore and see if it goes away". Another option is "ask the person to stop and see if it goes away". These are options among other options, including registering a formal complaint and pursuing corrective action. Believe it or not, most harassment cases stop at "ask the person to stop and see if it goes away" because the accused usually gets the idea and stops it. (A record of the harassment incident is retained, though.) Although its importance is dwindling in most HR departments, there is a psychological toolkit for modifying the behavior of another person. One tool in that toolkit is... don't respond to undesired behavior of another person.

HR is different because your environment has accountability. Your job is on the line.

In WoW, you're the paying customer here. All they can do is continue to slap you on the wrist. We're also hiding behind anonymity, which contributes to bringing out the worst in people in social situations. Very different things being compared here.

[TheRevenantHero]

You still haven't explained why there has to be a punishment. If ignoring them is the end of it, why do you care?

Harassment on the other hand is completely different an I'm sure they would deal with it but it's definitely not calling someone a mean word. If someone for example tried to bypass the mute by logging into other accounts you can report them and I'm sure they would act.

Again, because harassment is against the ToS. Disobeying the ToS deserves punishment. I feel like you are being purposely obtuse at this point.

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Having worked in HR, one of the options presented to victims of harassment is "ignore and see if it goes away". Another option is "ask the person to stop and see if it goes away". These are options among other options, including registering a formal complaint and pursuing corrective action. Believe it or not, most harassment cases stop at "ask the person to stop and see if it goes away" because the accused usually gets the idea and stops it. (A record of the harassment incident is retained, though.) Although its importance is dwindling in most HR departments, there is a psychological toolkit for modifying the behavior of another person. One tool in that toolkit is... don't respond to undesired behavior of another person.

Whatever company you worked for in the HR department was a really shitty company. Every company I've worked for had zero tolerance for harassment.

[kaminaris]

It kind of does when you have the powers of a god and can click someone out of existence...

Some people here want a massive bot net style security system watching over every interaction when the problem is instantly solved by right clicking on a frame and scrolling down to mute.

At some point you have to help yourself and stop crying for big brother.

No it doesn't.
Its still a public space and you still interact with other humans.

You want to be toxic? Make your private space, then you can run rampart with anything you imagine, threats, shaming, naming hell even racism. But dont expect that others should tolerate that shit in public.

[LTN]

No it doesn't.
Its still a public space and you still interact with other humans.

You want to be toxic? Make your private space, then you can run rampart with anything you imagine, threats, shaming, naming hell even racism. But dont expect that others should tolerate that shit in public.

It isn't a public space it is a private space. You have all the tools you need but rather then directly solve the problem you want to punish others like a petulant child.

I have no desire for more broken unusable systems because someone is on a " righteous " crusade to harm people who annoy them.

[kaminaris]

It isn't a public space it is a private space. You have all the tools you need but rather then directly solve the problem you want to punish others like a petulant child.

I have no desire for more broken unusable systems because someone is on a " righteous " crusade to harm people who annoy them.

No, its not. You are not the owner so you do not set the rules, blizzard owns it and harassments is not suppose to be allowed.

Oh the irony, the current system IS broken and unusable.

[LTN]

No, its not. You are not the owner so you do not set the rules, blizzard owns it and harassments is not suppose to be allowed.

Oh the irony, the current system IS broken and unusable.

Why throw you are not the owner at me when you are the one begging for change?

Just use the ignore function. It's the same as that old Simpson episode, " just dont look"

[Miffinat0r]

Why throw you are not the owner at me when you are the one begging for change?

Just use the ignore function. It's the same as that old Simpson episode, " just dont look"

The problem with that logic is that eventually even if we're all not looking that toxicity finds a way to seep into your play time.

Blizzard went through this with OW. Kaplan wanted hard bans, Blizz said no, and as a result sponsors started pulling out because Blizz lacked the moral authority to do the right thing. Instead they cowered, like good libertarians do when the going gets tough.

[LTN]

The problem with that logic is that eventually even if we're all not looking that toxicity finds a way to seep into your play time.

Blizzard went through this with OW. Kaplan wanted hard bans, Blizz said no, and as a result sponsors started pulling out because Blizz lacked the moral authority to do the right thing. Instead they cowered, like good libertarians do when the going gets tough.

Overwatch became a shit hole where you got banned/suspended for nothing more then playing off meta champs.

I rather ignore over a 1984 surveillance state...