EoA 10.0 LEAK

[Mace]

Their are only 2 classes for 3 of the Elves that make sense right now and Shaman isn't one of them.

Night Elf Paladin - should have happened in 8.1, but didn't.
Void Elf Demon Hunter - should happen in the next expansion.
Nightborne Demon Hunter - should happen in the next expansion.

Blood Elves get nothing - they already get an additional questline, plus plate armor set.

You clearly don't seem to understand what suggestions are.

Or what people are doing when they expand an existing thing.

Things that are not currently around make up the jist of such topics, not things that already are. Coming on and saying elves don't have shaman or can't be shaman is not really the point here.

[Tanaria]

You clearly don't seem to understand what suggestions are.

Or what people are doing when they expand an existing thing.

Things that are not currently around make up the jist of such topics, not things that already are. Coming on and saying elves don't have shaman or can't be shaman is not really the point here.

And I have made suggestions, including 2 for Elves which make the most sense - 1 of which, should have been in from 8.1 to further enhance the Night Warrior story.

How cool would it have been for Delas Moonfang to come back and join her Kaldorei kin in destroying the Horde with both Elune's light and the heavy hitting that goes with being a Paladin.

Void Elf and Nightborne Demon Hunters should just be a thing now anyway. They don't do the Mardum Questline but you meet with Kor'vas and she issues you with a quest where you choose either Kayn or Altrius to be the Champion.

Blood Elves can sit that one out. Get your Blood Elf Warrior, Paladin or Death Knight to 60 and have fun with the new questline + armor set.

[Mace]

And I have made suggestions, including 2 for Elves which make the most sense - 1 of which, should have been in from 8.1 to further enhance the Night Warrior story.

Good for you. So because you have already made suggestions, including 2 for elves - others cannot? Or are elves only allowed 2? And the two you suggest?

How cool would it have been for Delas Moonfang to come back and join her Kaldorei kin in destroying the Horde with both Elune's light and the heavy hitting that goes with being a Paladin.

So you expect people to go with your suggestions because you think they're cool, but disqualify others becuase you don't like them or you don't find them cool. There is a difference between not liking something and try to argue that something doesn't qualify based on some arbitrary criteria.

Anyway, I will say, that what you mentioned about Delas Moonfang would be cool, and I'd be on board with it

Void Elf and Nightborne Demon Hunters should just be a thing now anyway. They don't do the Mardum Questline but you meet with Kor'vas and she issues you with a quest where you choose either Kayn or Altrius to be the Champion.

I'll be onboard with this also. I am very flexible when it comes to new class combo - they just have to be plausible and done in a way that fits the race and it's lore.

I think void elves could already be DHs, because the void elf transformation happened after/during 7.3 legion event. Technically it was after - because Alleria goes to help them defeat the void lord.

Now it is plauisble that some Illidari interested in harnessing the void to use as a weapon were among them.

Alternatively, you could say that some Illidari joined the SIlvermoon scholars and high elf wayfarers to study the void after that event.

Because void elves no longer have to be racially purple, i.e. racially ren'dorei, just be part of that faction, we could have a bunch of blood elf Illidari choose to join up with the ren'dorei to explore this power whether they identify more with the alliance, or find themselves utterly rejected by Silvermoon for having both fel and void access.

As for Nightborne, it's still possible, but unlike the void elf route above I prefer, which counts on the elf already being an Illidari that goes void focused, rather than a void elf that learns to become a demon hunter - the nightborne doesn't have that luxury - at least not immediately.

What would motivate a Nightborne to born with the necessary vengeance to want to take on this life? Night elves off course had a compelling reason. Blood elves had theirs explained nicely in TBC.. NIghtborne?

Well one path we could choose is create a group of Nightborne that became felborne to essentially do the same in the Suramar campaign, and tell a unique story for them.

TO avoid telling a unique story, we can do the following instead: They were a group of Felborne who since the events of Legion, want to use that power to destroy the demons. We could alternatively give them a new reason for their faction and a new name. Whiles they are the demon hunter for class selection, in lore they are actually Fel magic hunters - who are driven by finding powerful means to fuel their race - they got the idea by seeing the Illidari in action and these felborne feel that the most powerful thing you can be is what the demon hunters do.

Take your pick. These are the complications involved. However there is always a way if you can be creative enough.

Blood Elves can sit that one out. Get your Blood Elf Warrior, Paladin or Death Knight to 60 and have fun with the new questline + armor set.

I don't understand this.

[Tanaria]

SNIP

I make suggestions for those that make sense and most likely to happen. Also requests that people have voiced for the longest time and had backing.

I don't foresee elf shamans as playable, yet Night Elf Paladins, Void Elf Demon Hunters and Nightborne Demon Hunters - yes, I do foresee them as playable. I don't mind which route they take for Void Elves and Nightborne - so long as they can be Demon Hunters. Also - why wouldn't a Nightborne want to be a Demon Hunter? After being terrorized by Demons, why wouldn't they want to take up such arms and ensure that sort of issue never arises again. They could be Felborne or they could just be Nightborne who are looking at becoming a Demon Hunter.
Now, we've got Kaldorei and Ren'dorei Demon Hunters who could take up their main base on Kalimdor and Sin'dorei and Shal'dorei Demon Hunters, on the Eastern Kingdoms.

EDIT: I think the Alliance Illidari could be based in Felwood, near the corrupted moonwell over looking Darkshore. The Horde Illidari could be based at the Quel'lithien Lodge

Blood Elves have no need for extra classes. Being everything besides Shaman and Druid is alright. We get a brand new quest-line that puts emphasis on the Magisters and Blood Knights.

[Mace]

I make suggestions for those that make sense and most likely to happen. Also requests that people have voiced for the longest time and had backing.

Good for you, just know that everyone has their own reasons for making suggestions.

And they don't have to make sense to you, nor do you have to understand them if you don't.

This is not an official competition on who's ideas make the most sense will see them implemented.

Nor are you the judge of that competition. It is okay for something not to make sense to me , I won't spend 3 pages arguing with you that it shouldn't happen - it's not my place to determine such things should happen or not in game.

However, It is my place to make a suggestion on a topic discussing possibilities. I think this is one of my bigger issues with you.

Even the suggestions of yours I don't agree with, I'd say why I don't like it and what I prefer, but I won't say you're wrong for suggesting it or that it shouldn't or can't happen as if you're in error for wanting what you want because I don't like it - that would frankly be immature and ignorant of me as well as a little fool

It appears to me you are making posts for some sort of development proposal - like some fan marshalling to present viable options for the devs in some united fan front - so you only go for options you feel make sense to you, because you're not posting for fun purely, you're posting to influence development and cna't understand those of us who are just sharing our thoughts and don't care whether they'll be most likely to be implemented.

I don't foresee elf shamans as playable

My foresight is irrelevant - but I feel any class combo is possible and possible to do well. I can't foresee what will happening, but there is enough already in elven arcane arts, druidism and the void by lore of what they do for shaman to be a possibility in the alliance elf groups at the very least, , but for all elves

Can they handle the elements? Yes, night elves can through the arcane, so can the void elves, and they can do so through the void too - as per twilight cultists, and void entropists.
Can they talk to or deal with elementals too? yes, elven mages are able to summon them for sure, night elven druids can definitely speak with elemental spirits - so is a group of Nelves who have some mage and druidic training as special unit focused on elements plausible? IMO, yes, in fact in lore some of the Highborne mages amongst the Darnasisans that returned to the arcane when the Shen'dralar showed up had actually been druids - so they already have training in both. And this does not exclude them from creating a new unit specialised in this and training on them only in the areas of arcane and druidism that enable them to manipulate elements, which is why orcs call them shaman even though they call themselves Valewalkers as an example.. .

We see the void being able to be used to handle elemental spirits too, and anyone who has access to a priest class is able to deal with spirits. This certainly makes void elf shaman and night elf shaman a go on those level s alone.

Is the new mage-druid unit a mage? or a druid? or is it a shaman because it specialise in handling elements even though it's background training is the arcane and druidism?
Same with the void elementalist we shall call an entropist - who specialise in wielding the elements and handling elementals though his magical mastery is the arcane and the void - what is he? a mage because of the arcane? a void specialist because of the void? or a shaman because he employs his mage and void knowledge to specifically deal elementals and use elemental magic whether it's through burrowed power or arcane generated elements.

, yet Night Elf Paladins, Void Elf Demon Hunters and Nightborne Demon Hunters - yes, I do foresee them as playable. I don't mind which route they take for Void Elves and Nightborne - so long as they can be Demon Hunters.

Well, I mind what route they take. Just because I see something as plausible doesn't mean that I think it's just enough to lump it in. you only seee those combos as plausible. I can see every class combo as plausible on the basis that any intelligent sentient humanoid we play is able to master any of the calsses - because in the lore classes are not restricted to a unique racial feature only one race or a bunch of races can have. they are more like a science, anyone can learn them and in the magic world of warcraft every race has a talent for any of the cosmic powers

SO saying that, I then focus on the how, the reason is important, because through it a race's identity is preserved and I feel that is important to keep them feeling unique rather than homogenous if you're going to have so many class combos around..otherwise I'd have been much much stricter and cut down

Also - why wouldn't a Nightborne want to be a Demon Hunter? After being terrorized by Demons, why wouldn't they want to take up such arms and ensure that sort of issue never arises again. They could be Felborne or they could just be Nightborne who are looking at becoming a Demon Hunter.

They could do, but I'd have to look into showing a compelling reason to subject yourself to that type of training. Most blood elves who trained to be demon hunters didn't make it, it was that tough, - with blood elves barely having compelling enough reason in the story, I would want to be sure to show how desperate and greatly motivated new Nightborne were to go through what it takes to be DH.

So I'm not saying your way won't work.

Now, we've got Kaldorei and Ren'dorei Demon Hunters who could take up their main base on Kalimdor and Sin'dorei and Shal'dorei Demon Hunters, on the Eastern Kingdoms.

EDIT: I think the Alliance Illidari could be based in Felwood, near the corrupted moonwell over looking Darkshore. The Horde Illidari could be based at the Quel'lithien Lodge

Could work. Although I think the Illidari should now be based on the broken shore, on the otherside of the Cathedral the Order of Elune is cleansing and fully restoring. That would be the highest concentration of Fel.. I'm sure they can help the priestesses by sucking the fel corruption from the temple grounds to empower their base allowing the Priests to more easily cleanse.

Blood Elves have no need for extra classes. Being everything besides Shaman and Druid is alright. We get a brand new quest-line that puts emphasis on the Magisters and Blood Knights.

Its' not about need. It's about want. Blood elves haven't needed anything new since the opening classes.. no one has. No one needs all these combinations and classes, they are not given because of need. They are given to give you more options, so you play more, give you more fantasies, new things to look forward too in your race that you can marvel at and identify with or desire.
It's not any stupid need system... based on what? Because they have enough? because you don't feel you want to play more. Stop looking at yourself, think like a developer, or think like their are other fans besides you who may want what you don't care for. it's fine if you don't agree with them, but don't fight them in arguments like they're wrong to want something you don't want or feel is necessary.

[Tanaria]

Could work. Although I think the Illidari should now be based on the broken shore, on the otherside of the Cathedral the Order of Elune is cleansing and fully restoring. That would be the highest concentration of Fel.. I'm sure they can help the priestesses by sucking the fel corruption from the temple grounds to empower their base allowing the Priests to more easily cleanse.

Actually that doesn't work as well anymore.
It was confirmed in the Ebon Blade novella, before Shadowlands, that the fel that engulfed the Tomb of Sargeras has been all but extinguished.

I would personally think that to avoid another "Teldrassil disaster" the Night Elf and Void Elf Illidari reside overlooking Darkshore, from the corrupted Moonwell.
To minimise the Scourge and Cult of the Damned threat, the Blood Elf and Nightborne Illidari reside outside Quel'Thalas, within the Quel'Lithien Lodge.

Due to recent data leaks surrounding the Winter Queen and a new Wild Seed and a tree, I don't think Blizzard are intending on using the Tomb of Sargeras again. The last time it was mentioned, it was said to have had it's fel flames, gone out.

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Its' not about need. It's about want. Blood elves haven't needed anything new since the opening classes.. no one has. No one needs all these combinations and classes, they are not given because of need. They are given to give you more options, so you play more, give you more fantasies, new things to look forward too in your race that you can marvel at and identify with or desire.
It's not any stupid need system... based on what? Because they have enough? because you don't feel you want to play more. Stop looking at yourself, think like a developer, or think like their are other fans besides you who may want what you don't care for. it's fine if you don't agree with them, but don't fight them in arguments like they're wrong to want something you don't want or feel is necessary.

I look at what they are giving us.

The fact is, I just don't think we need extra additions when we've got a pretty good story surrounding the Blood Knights and Magisters.
Less is more. 3 sectors of Sin'dorei society, but more time to focus on those 3 sectors.

Again, remember the saying "less is more."

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They could do, but I'd have to look into showing a compelling reason to subject yourself to that type of training. Most blood elves who trained to be demon hunters didn't make it, it was that tough, - with blood elves barely having compelling enough reason in the story, I would want to be sure to show how desperate and greatly motivated new Nightborne were to go through what it takes to be DH.

So I'm not saying your way won't work.
.

Well considering Illidan basically told them that the creator of the Lich King, who instructed their land be destroyed, was also a large leader of the Burning Legion, I'd say that the Blood Elves had plenty of reason.

Plus, it wasn't just the Blood Elves who didn't survive the training. Yes, more Blood Elves on the ratio didn't survive, but that was because it was confirmed that their were more Blood Elves in the Demon Hunter's underground den. So, if you have 7 blood elves for every 4 night elves, then of course - you will have more blood elves not surviving.

However, from what I saw as well - an equal amount of night elves also joined the Legion and gave into the fel. Those like Cyana.
Others - we had an equal number who couldn't contain their powers anymore. Manathriel, Varedis, Caria and Sirius just to name 4. (2 blood elves, 2 night elves. Ironically, no important/named female blood elves seemed to lose control.)

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Good for you, just know that everyone has their own reasons for making suggestions.

And they don't have to make sense to you, nor do you have to understand them if you don't.

This is not an official competition on who's ideas make the most sense will see them implemented.

Nor are you the judge of that competition. It is okay for something not to make sense to me , I won't spend 3 pages arguing with you that it shouldn't happen - it's not my place to determine such things should happen or not in game.

However, It is my place to make a suggestion on a topic discussing possibilities. I think this is one of my bigger issues with you.

Even the suggestions of yours I don't agree with, I'd say why I don't like it and what I prefer, but I won't say you're wrong for suggesting it or that it shouldn't or can't happen as if you're in error for wanting what you want because I don't like it - that would frankly be immature and ignorant of me as well as a little fool

It appears to me you are making posts for some sort of development proposal - like some fan marshalling to present viable options for the devs in some united fan front - so you only go for options you feel make sense to you, because you're not posting for fun purely, you're posting to influence development and cna't understand those of us who are just sharing our thoughts and don't care whether they'll be most likely to be implemented.


My foresight is irrelevant - but I feel any class combo is possible and possible to do well. I can't foresee what will happening, but there is enough already in elven arcane arts, druidism and the void by lore of what they do for shaman to be a possibility in the alliance elf groups at the very least, , but for all elves

Can they handle the elements? Yes, night elves can through the arcane, so can the void elves, and they can do so through the void too - as per twilight cultists, and void entropists.
Can they talk to or deal with elementals too? yes, elven mages are able to summon them for sure, night elven druids can definitely speak with elemental spirits - so is a group of Nelves who have some mage and druidic training as special unit focused on elements plausible? IMO, yes, in fact in lore some of the Highborne mages amongst the Darnasisans that returned to the arcane when the Shen'dralar showed up had actually been druids - so they already have training in both. And this does not exclude them from creating a new unit specialised in this and training on them only in the areas of arcane and druidism that enable them to manipulate elements, which is why orcs call them shaman even though they call themselves Valewalkers as an example.. .

We see the void being able to be used to handle elemental spirits too, and anyone who has access to a priest class is able to deal with spirits. This certainly makes void elf shaman and night elf shaman a go on those level s alone.

Is the new mage-druid unit a mage? or a druid? or is it a shaman because it specialise in handling elements even though it's background training is the arcane and druidism?
Same with the void elementalist we shall call an entropist - who specialise in wielding the elements and handling elementals though his magical mastery is the arcane and the void - what is he? a mage because of the arcane? a void specialist because of the void? or a shaman because he employs his mage and void knowledge to specifically deal elementals and use elemental magic whether it's through burrowed power or arcane generated elements.

Right, I see.

It's an unusual route to take the Shaman class, but it can work. It's not about the race for me, it's about the class. The class fantasy of the Shaman must be preserved and what Shaman players were doing in Legion is a Shaman. So, I don't want to see elves take up leadership of the Shaman class nor do I want the Earth Ring Orcs, Dwarves and Trolls to start going gah gah over them.
Personally, again - I don't see Blizzard doing it. Probably just add a class skin to the Mage that works on an individual basis for each elf race. so, no new race/class combos for anybody - but you get lore based class skins that are appropriate.

So Pheonix Mage for Blood Elves. Summon a fire or arcane pheonix.
A Magister skin could work, but a "Magister" could also involve the Blood Elf Warlocks.

Personally, a good Warlock class skin for Blood Elves would be "Blood Mage."

Elf Shaman requests only come about every once in a while and have been shut down, quite quickly.

[Mace]

Actually that doesn't work as well anymore.
It was confirmed in the Ebon Blade novella, before Shadowlands, that the fel that engulfed the Tomb of Sargeras has been all but extinguished.

I would personally think that to avoid another "Teldrassil disaster" the Night Elf and Void Elf Illidari reside overlooking Darkshore, from the corrupted Moonwell.
To minimise the Scourge and Cult of the Damned threat, the Blood Elf and Nightborne Illidari reside outside Quel'Thalas, within the Quel'Lithien Lodge.

Due to recent data leaks surrounding the Winter Queen and a new Wild Seed and a tree, I don't think Blizzard are intending on using the Tomb of Sargeras again. The last time it was mentioned, it was said to have had it's fel flames, gone out.

Okay, I still think it would be better to put the illidari in the broken shore, where they have easy access to all the lef races and are also tied to their origin - I mean Suramar is Illidan's city anyway, He first realises he must do more when leading the Moonguard at Black Rook hold, and the area has the highest concentration of fel.

Yes the fel that engulfed teh Cathedral aka ToS, is all but extinguished, and I would bet priestesses are purifying the taint and restoring their most holy site.. but tha'ts just for the temple and the temple grounds. There is still a lot of areas where there was fel concentration, much more so than Felwood or Darkshore that were already been cleansed in Cata.

Also the broken shore landscape does fit for the Illidari, and it sort of feel cool to have the contrast of a starlight/moonlight pure temple in restoration in contrastand right next to a plague warped landscape.

Also it feels symbolic of Illidan next to Tyrande if you look at it that way.

However, the Illidari should have bases all over the world, and a ahigher concerntration in the lands of thier people. Thereofre

1. 3 bases in Azsuna
2. 1 in Felwood
3. 2 in Desolace
4. 1 in Feralas
5. 1 in Darkshore
6. 3 in Ashenvale
7. 1 in Azshara
8. 1 in Ghostlands
9. 1 in EPL - Quel'lithien
10. 1 in Suramar
11. 1 in Val'sharah
12. 2 in Highmountain
13. 1 in Stormwind
14. 1 in Orgrimar
15. 1 in Silverpine
16. 1 in Barrens
17. 1 in Azuremyst
18. 1 in Bloodmyst
19. 2 in Shadowmoon Valley Outland
20. 1 in Hellfire Peninsula Outland
21. 1 in Nagrand Outland
22. 2 in Bladesedge Mountain Oultand
23. 2 in Netherstorm Outland
24. 2 in Burning Steppes
25. 2 in the Blasted lands
26. 1 in Swamp of Sorrows
27. 1 in Darkshire
28. 1 in Searing Gorge
29. 2 in Blasted Lands

HQ is ths Mardum.
HQ on Azeroth is on Brokenshore



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I look at what they are giving us.

The fact is, I just don't think we need extra additions when we've got a pretty good story surrounding the Blood Knights and Magisters.
Less is more. 3 sectors of Sin'dorei society, but more time to focus on those 3 sectors.

Again, remember the saying "less is more."

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Well considering Illidan basically told them that the creator of the Lich King, who instructed their land be destroyed, was also a large leader of the Burning Legion, I'd say that the Blood Elves had plenty of reason.

Plus, it wasn't just the Blood Elves who didn't survive the training. Yes, more Blood Elves on the ratio didn't survive, but that was because it was confirmed that their were more Blood Elves in the Demon Hunter's underground den. So, if you have 7 blood elves for every 4 night elves, then of course - you will have more blood elves not surviving.

However, from what I saw as well - an equal amount of night elves also joined the Legion and gave into the fel. Those like Cyana.
Others - we had an equal number who couldn't contain their powers anymore. Manathriel, Varedis, Caria and Sirius just to name 4. (2 blood elves, 2 night elves. Ironically, no important/named female blood elves seemed to lose control.)

You're veering off topic dear, I was looking at the BT DHs, and the blood elves did not suffer at the hands of the legion anywhere near the extent the Night elves did - which is my case for compelling reason imo (even though you could say the legion was behind it, but then it was more the Lich King acting on his own - since the story had the legion try to stop the Lich King too and now we know Zovaalwas the architect of all of that.) . Anyway blood elves do have a reason, and through them so do void elves, not denying that, TBC also gives another path for them that isn't entirely venegenace focused, but vengeance is a huge part - all elves suffered - perhapss I am being preferential by stating night elves did more.. They would have to give the basis of the reason for the Nightborne.

It's not impossible, they have a lot to draw from. Nightborne are afterall night elves and would have suffered the first invasion of both Suramar and the empire - so there would be hate, hate you could describe as been given new life during the Legion invasion most recently, the brutal soul engines, starvation at their hands and the destruction they have wrought on the kaldorei empire. Explain how the 10,000 years of peace in Suramar for these Nightborne kept a cold flame alive because for them it was more like a prison that the legion was responsible for, some of these Nightborne/Felborne remember family lost to the legion in the first invasion and had been training and honing their skills for 10,000 years for the opportunity to pay back - some of these took fel for that reason becoming Felborne in a similar approach to Illidan, others were part of the Nightfallen resistance and couldn't do much in that starved state, but did make contact with the Illidari after the liberation of Suramar, but were in training when the events that led to Argus took place, so were not ready. They hate all demons, so although the legion as an entity is defeated because of Sargeras, they want to wipe out every Eredar and demonic entity they come across, and are fuelled by a need to get their own revenge, in a sense having felt that missing Argus denied them.

or Something like that - whatever it is, it has to be compelling.

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Right, I see.

It's an unusual route to take the Shaman class, but it can work. It's not about the race for me, it's about the class. The class fantasy of the Shaman must be preserved and what Shaman players were doing in Legion is a Shaman. So, I don't want to see elves take up leadership of the Shaman class nor do I want the Earth Ring Orcs, Dwarves and Trolls to start going gah gah over them.

I have several thoughts on this. I know what you mean, I don't want elves to be perceived as shaman because they don't have that identity (i never have, which is why to access teh shaman class - they were doing it through the Orders they are well established, and they've been with the arcane and druidism and priesthood for over 10,000 years, they more so than younger races can believably pull this off by how the lore describes the arcane, druidism and the void), this is why I went this way - it's to preserve their identity while still giving them access.

This type of route to access the shaman I laid out allows them to be operating as mage-druids, mage-void, or mage-priests who are specially trained to focus on using the elments - in their culture they belong to these institutions for the new one they call themselves - based on their arcane/druidic/void- priestly orders - but orcs and tauren call these guys shaman, even if they don't refer to themselves as such because they also have expertise with the elements and handle elementals - even if done as some mage-druid hybird or mage-void hybrid or mage-priest hybrid.

Notice to happen, they form a specialised unit - this always them to perceived as no longer just mages or druids, but something else, which is akin to shaman even though it's m a combination of mage and druid or mage and void o or priest or all. (based on the elven race). This is why their inception comes from a group of elves that simply focused their arcane and druidic knowledge to specialise in elemental control - and they had an ancient name for this in the kaldorei empire as Valewalkers. (placeholder name), for void elves, those who are focusing on this aspect call themselves entropists, they are mages who are studying the void specifically with respect to elements and elemental spirits and it is one of the many areas of study the void elves are applying themselves too to fulfil their mandate of fully exploiting the void to protect Azeroth from it. It is this mandate that took them to druidism too and nature leading them to team up with the night elf druids to help increase Azeroths' defences against the void in the nightmare..

In all these cases they are groups that have formed in each of these races. For night elves you could say this use to be a very well established field amongst them. It wasn't called shamanism because it was taught in the mage academies of magic that had druids and other magic users studying magic - when the kaldorei picked up magic again, and the moonguard returned too, well, they started this up again, because it is useful and a powerful asset to be good at handling the elements.

The blood elves, like the night elves also don't want to rely on any one else for anything magical, so Belves had already commissioned training in the arcane to focus on elemental usage

Personally, again - I don't see Blizzard doing it. Probably just add a class skin to the Mage that works on an individual basis for each elf race. so, no new race/class combos for anybody - but you get lore based class skins that are appropriate.

I can see it happening, but for me it's more like, if they are going to extend race-class combos and elves were going to get shaman - I'd prefer them to get shaman like this.

Still you must admit though the void elves have a very strong case for shaman as a lot of the void does deal with the elements and elementals, and night elves already have people who have both mage and druidic training and that combination is easy to yield mastery of both elements and elemental spirits. Nightborne I felt could have access because they also have both the arcane and druidism through Farodin and the Val'Sharah druids that could produce this. Blood elves perhaps are the furthest away, but priest/warlock expertise as well as a drive to have all things magical at their fingertips could be their motivation.

So Pheonix Mage for Blood Elves. Summon a fire or arcane pheonix.
A Magister skin could work, but a "Magister" could also involve the Blood Elf Warlocks.

Personally, a good Warlock class skin for Blood Elves would be "Blood Mage."

Elf Shaman requests only come about every once in a while and have been shut down, quite quickly.

I want Phoenix mages to happen, and Blood mages - as class identities or skins for mages, this is totally separate from the shaman like Mage Thermatauge (the blood elf name) that allows shaman access.

However I respect that you are not too keen on the idea. I see classes as playstyles. And whiles lore wise elves don't need to be shaman because their arcane and druidic/void knowledge covers all of that and more, then what's the harm in giving them access to the shaman playstyle (i.e the gameplay class) under the identity of a mage druid, or a void mage Entropist or a mage priest Thermatauge?

I like the idea of it because it gives more magical options, more lore, I get a new group of elves that are doing something elven like and achieving the same results as a shaman in their own way. This is how a lot of new class combos have worked. The dark iron shaman aren't actually shaman, they've achieved the same thing in their own way, as are the Wildhammer Stormhammers, the kult'iran tidesages.

The same went for the Zandalari druids and the Drust druids, they are not the same as the night elven based druidism, they are something that is similar enough or produces the same or similar enough effect to be called a druid, it doesn't have to be the same philosophy- and the reason this happens in wow is because playable classes aren't fixed identities, they are often an amalgamation of several identities or classes in different races, furthermore, the class tooltips don't change to fit the races identity. eg. when you play a blood elf ranger as a hunter, the hunter tooltips don't gain unique names nor animations that switch to be called ranger, even though that is what it is. But ranger is close enough to hunter that while not technically a hunter, well it's the blood elf version.


Classes in wow have always worked like this.

[Tanaria]

Still you must admit though the void elves have a very strong case for shaman as a lot of the void does deal with the elements and elementals, and night elves already have people who have both mage and druidic training and that combination is easy to yield mastery of both elements and elemental spirits. Nightborne I felt could have access because they also have both the arcane and druidism through Farodin and the Val'Sharah druids that could produce this. Blood elves perhaps are the furthest away, but priest/warlock expertise as well as a drive to have all things magical at their fingertips could be their motivation.

Why is Blood Elf different than the others? You talk now about Priest/Warlock? Where's the Mage? Mage/Arcane is also the legacy of the Sin'dorei.

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I want Phoenix mages to happen, and Blood mages - as class identities or skins for mages, this is totally separate from the shaman like Mage Thermatauge (the blood elf name) that allows shaman access.

However I respect that you are not too keen on the idea. I see classes as playstyles. And whiles lore wise elves don't need to be shaman because their arcane and druidic/void knowledge covers all of that and more, then what's the harm in giving them access to the shaman playstyle (i.e the gameplay class) under the identity of a mage druid, or a void mage Entropist or a mage priest Thermatauge?

I like the idea of it because it gives more magical options, more lore, I get a new group of elves that are doing something elven like and achieving the same results as a shaman in their own way. This is how a lot of new class combos have worked. The dark iron shaman aren't actually shaman, they've achieved the same thing in their own way, as are the Wildhammer Stormhammers, the kult'iran tidesages.

The same went for the Zandalari druids and the Drust druids, they are not the same as the night elven based druidism, they are something that is similar enough or produces the same or similar enough effect to be called a druid, it doesn't have to be the same philosophy- and the reason this happens in wow is because playable classes aren't fixed identities, they are often an amalgamation of several identities or classes in different races, furthermore, the class tooltips don't change to fit the races identity. eg. when you play a blood elf ranger as a hunter, the hunter tooltips don't gain unique names nor animations that switch to be called ranger, even though that is what it is. But ranger is close enough to hunter that while not technically a hunter, well it's the blood elf version.

I'm just not sure your ideas for all this "arcane" change to Shamanism is something Blizzard is willing to do? Why would they do it?
Legion set the most clear stage for the core of being a Shaman - I just don't think they're going to make elf players feel special because we want more.

Class skins is the better way to go.

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Okay, I still think it would be better to put the illidari in the broken shore, where they have easy access to all the lef races and are also tied to their origin - I mean Suramar is Illidan's city anyway, He first realises he must do more when leading the Moonguard at Black Rook hold, and the area has the highest concentration of fel.
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Well that could just have a higher Horde Illidari presence since Nightborne come from Suramar and Nightborne are part of the Horde.

But I reckon the core races should be the main ones who have the Illidari presence.
Now - again, Broken Isles / Broken Shore - it's all speculation about what's going on there. As far as the Ebon Blade novel - nothing is happening to that location. You can speculate that some random priestess cult is trying to cleanse it, but we have no evidence and with the story going in the possible direction of a new world tree...I wouldn't place my bets on any presence on the broken shore, let alone a night elf priestess only presence.

[Mace]

Why is Blood Elf different than the others? You talk now about Priest/Warlock? Where's the Mage? Mage/Arcane is also the legacy of the Sin'dorei.

Context. It was Mage + priest or warlock or priest and warlock, just like for night elf it is mage + druid or druid and priest

I'm just not sure your ideas for all this "arcane" change to Shamanism is something Blizzard is willing to do? Why would they do it?
Legion set the most clear stage for the core of being a Shaman - I just don't think they're going to make elf players feel special because we want more.

Class skins is the better way to go.

Well it isn't an arcane change to shamanism - Firstly the arcane isn't changing, nor are these guys changing roles. What other races call shamanism, the elves simply view as elemental manipulation - they have ways of doing this through their arcane knowledge and druidic, priestly and void knowledge , to other races like orcs it's shamanism because it deals with the elements and that's what they call those who talk to spirits and can produce fire and ice - elves don't call those people shaman, elves have had millennia mastering magic , every aspect of it has a speciality. The mage umbrella is a very very wide one that covers a lot of areas that other races have a different name for.

Orcs don't have priests, but elven priests can communicate with spirits, so to can elven druids - who tend to deal with nature and elemental spirits. Furthermore, elven mages can summon elemental spirits from the elemental planes. What is wrapped up under the umbrella of shaman for orcs, elves have taken it and gone into much more detail, study - orcs may say these are all spirits, elves would have them separated by type - whether demon (warlocks) humanoid ( priest), void (void/warlock), nature (druid), elemental (druid/conjurer mage etc. This just comes by how blizzard designed their magic system.

In Warcraft the chief studiers of magic are mages. While you have sub-specialists like druids that focus on nature and the balance between nature and arcane, or warlocks that focus on demonic entities with a bit of shadow and fel, or priests that are light focused (if high elven/human) or void focused (if shadow), death focused (domination/necromancy) the principle study of magic is what is mages do, and the biggest portion of that is the arcane category which is the fundamental building blocks of matter in the great beyond This is why mages can produce fire, water/ice, air, earth - without the need for elemental spirits to lend them power or do it through them. and based on how knowledgeable the mage is or how skilled the race's mage institutions are in that field of magic, you can have a lot or little progress.

This is why it behooves elves to get to the level of elemental manipulation through the arcane that at least equals the shaman elemental spirit wielders, as opposed to humans or forsaken - it's easier to swallow or accept that because of their long mastery of magic, elves would have had elemental specialists (night elf and Nightborne, possibly high elves) or be much quicker than other races at forming such a group, because the expertise and knowledge is already there. This is part of the core principle behind it.

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Well that could just have a higher Horde Illidari presence since Nightborne come from Suramar and Nightborne are part of the Horde.

It could do, or it could not. I don't think the Nightborne been horde would necessarily affect the proportion at all, seeing that the Illidari aren't faction aligned - even if they do help one faction more, it's likely to be a racial assistance to whichever group needs it more. And Suramar is still very international. I can imagine Kirin'tor, and a lot of night elven groups are still there.

The way I view Suramar is not very horde centric. That is if you keep look at the world through the lens of the factions. Suramar is an international city, a bit like Dalaran and Shattrath, the native population might be members of one faction, but many factions operate there and are home and it remains so. While a Draenei city and the Draenei are in the alliance, Shattrath on the other hand is open to all factions.

But I reckon the core races should be the main ones who have the Illidari presence.
Now - again, Broken Isles / Broken Shore - it's all speculation about what's going on there. As far as the Ebon Blade novel - nothing is happening to that location. You can speculate that some random priestess cult is trying to cleanse it, but we have no evidence and with the story going in the possible direction of a new world tree...I wouldn't place my bets on any presence on the broken shore, let alone a night elf priestess only presence.

Yes, it is all speculation. I think ti is the better spot for them. They should be based int eh amin expansion area they were introduced, rather than be split between the night elves and blood elves. Have your focused base in the broken isles and Mardum, but you can ahve representatives going out to blood elves and night elves in their various locations.

You are focused on watching for demonic manipulation , so you would likely be in all the racial capitals in the world, and likely in areas with heavy demonic concentration. Night elven lands have the most of this, due to their long involvement with the legion - Satyr and naga, so you'd have more DHs in those areas.

That's just how I think it would or should go. Would it make any difference ifI am right? or you are right? To me it won't. But if they do it your way, I can't help but think it would have been better to distribute it my way, unless there is a particular story development for the Illidari that warrants it, like splitting them up along faction lines.

[Tanaria]

That's just how I think it would or should go. Would it make any difference ifI am right? or you are right? To me it won't. But if they do it your way, I can't help but think it would have been better to distribute it my way, unless there is a particular story development for the Illidari that warrants it, like splitting them up along faction lines.

Let's be honest though - people want a revamp to Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms, so my way is a way to bring the Illidari into that.

Yours is just very, very big which will probably happen, but not in one expansion. We won't get an Outland Revamp and a Broken Isles Revamp, with an Kalimdor and EK Revamp in one expansion. Especially not the Broken Isles when Legion is only 6 years old.

[Mace]

Let's be honest though - people want a revamp to Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms, so my way is a way to bring the Illidari into that.

Yours is just very, very big which will probably happen, but not in one expansion. We won't get an Outland Revamp and a Broken Isles Revamp, with an Kalimdor and EK Revamp in one expansion. Especially not the Broken Isles when Legion is only 6 years old.

Not really, my way has the HQ in the broken isles, but Illidari embassies/bases all over EK and Kalimdor - so why won't my way work even better in a EK/Kalim revamp? It's got more relevance too.

[Aedruid]

Echoes of Azeroth?

[Tanaria]

Not really, my way has the HQ in the broken isles, but Illidari embassies/bases all over EK and Kalimdor - so why won't my way work even better in a EK/Kalim revamp? It's got more relevance too.

Because we're not focusing on the Broken Isles.

Their HQ is Mardum, whilst the Blood Elves and Nightborne keep the Eastern Kingdoms secure, the Night Elves and Void Elves keep Kalimdor secure.

I'm not saying we won't get this - but we won't get it in 1 expansion. It will be over the course of the future expansions. I'd love to see Sin'dorei and Shal'dorei Demon Hunters in Netherstorm, but it isn't likely to happen right now. Maybe (hopefully) in the future, but not in the next expansion.
For now, the Illidari could set themselves up on the borders of Sin'dorei and kaldorei land and then as we move forward, they establish themselves further on the main continents and then we get to Outland and the Broken Isles.

[Playintrafic]

Bro just stop, dh is night elf and blood elf

There was at least 1 Eredar/Draenei DH you kill on Argus in Legion. It was a rare or something, I remember killing it a few times.

This is one of those cases where, just because they didnt learn to DH at illidan's hogwarts, doesn't mean due to game mechanics a similar class wouldn't just be called DH.

Kinda how Belf Paladins, and Tauren Paladins didn't learn how to paladin from the Silver hand, but they are mechanically paladins, instead of Blood Knights, and Sunwalkers.

[Mace]

[QUOTE=Tanaria;53715688]Because we're not focusing on the Broken Isles.

Their HQ is Mardum, whilst the Blood Elves and Nightborne keep the Eastern Kingdoms secure, the Night Elves and Void Elves keep Kalimdor secure. [/uoqte]That makes no sense. Does having their HQ in the broken isles mean we are focusing there? No.


It's like saying the Legion class hall for monks in Pandara as their HQ will not happen because the expansion is focused in the broken isles. Having their HQ in the broken isles makes sense for what it is.. doen't matter where the expansion is focused. They will have representation int he focused areas. Besides, it's not even as if it's going to be aobut demon hunters. The HQ could be on MArdum - it won't matter.

It's just that it makes more sense to be in a fel focused or contaimnated zone and then have them have other bases elsewhere.

I'm not saying we won't get this - but we won't get it in 1 expansion. It will be over the course of the future expansions. I'd love to see Sin'dorei and Shal'dorei Demon Hunters in Netherstorm, but it isn't likely to happen right now. Maybe (hopefully) in the future, but not in the next expansion.

Why the Netherstorm in particular? Do you have hopes for a really good revamp there or more story focus there? I guess it has potential for sure.

[Tanaria]

Why the Netherstorm in particular? Do you have hopes for a really good revamp there or more story focus there? I guess it has potential for sure.

You said that's one location where they could set up on Outland?

Ideally, they set up there and the Night Elves and Void Elves set up in Shadowmoon. But again, not what I'm expecting to see in the next 14 minutes.

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That makes no sense. Does having their HQ in the broken isles mean we are focusing there? No.

It's like saying the Legion class hall for monks in Pandara as their HQ will not happen because the expansion is focused in the broken isles. Having their HQ in the broken isles makes sense for what it is.. doen't matter where the expansion is focused. They will have representation int he focused areas. Besides, it's not even as if it's going to be aobut demon hunters. The HQ could be on MArdum - it won't matter.

It's just that it makes more sense to be in a fel focused or contaimnated zone and then have them have other bases elsewhere.

So do we want Illidari back in the story or not? I'd like them, but it's got to be realistic with what is most likely. The Broken Isles, just isn't likely to get a revamp at only 6 years old. Probably in the next decade to be honest. If it is, then I'd be glad. If I hear Silvermoon is going Alliance, but Azsuna will be the Blood Elf homeland and new introduction for Blood Elf characters then I'd be alright with that...I'm just not expecting the Broken Isles to be relevant again until...much later..

Let's go with what is most likely now and then we can see where it takes us for the future.

[Mace]

You said that's one location where they could set up on Outland?

Ideally, they set up there and the Night Elves and Void Elves set up in Shadowmoon. But again, not what I'm expecting to see in the next 14 minutes.

That makes sense. Although Netherstorm has a much stronger vibe for void elves to be fair.

I'd split them up so both faction elves are in both locations, but not ship it as a faction thing. You have blood elves and void elves in Netherstorm - makes sense. Night elves and Nightborne in Shadowmoon. As Illidari they will be working together, and those races seem to fit better there.

So do we want Illidari back in the story or not? I'd like them, but it's got to be realistic with what is most likely. The Broken Isles, just isn't likely to get a revamp at only 6 years old. Probably in the next decade to be honest. If it is, then I'd be glad. If I hear Silvermoon is going Alliance, but Azsuna will be the Blood Elf homeland and new introduction for Blood Elf characters then I'd be alright with that...I'm just not expecting the Broken Isles to be relevant again until...much later..

Let's go with what is most likely now and then we can see where it takes us for the future.

Yes ofc I'd like them back more. They have a lot of potential. But I don't htink having their base in the Broken isles is any rel hinderance, i'ts jsut their base you travel you. They don't need to have the zone fully revamped, you just have the ship there or the ship in Mardum, with the min portal to a small town or base in the broken isles, from there they travel to do their business in Azeroth.

THis is because it makes moresense tehmatically for them..rather than force their main base into an area just because it is getting revamped. WE all agree when they did that with Ashran, it wasn't good, people much prferred the originally planned horde and alliance bases in WoD before teh change. Suramar would have made a good neutral city that you would have moved from Dalrana to it in 7.2 .. sobut as DHs won't be the centre of a new expansion, that hardly matters, their HQ could be on another world

[Tanaria]

That makes sense. Although Netherstorm has a much stronger vibe for void elves to be fair.

I'd split them up so both faction elves are in both locations, but not ship it as a faction thing. You have blood elves and void elves in Netherstorm - makes sense. Night elves and Nightborne in Shadowmoon. As Illidari they will be working together, and those races seem to fit better there.

Personal preference, but I prefer Blood Elves and Nightborne to be together. The links drawn between Keal'thas' folly and Elisande's folly could bring some interesting lore.
The high volumes of Arcane is something that is food and drink for the Nightborne.

Or, they just fully mix between the two zones.
All Elven Demon Hunters are in both Shadowmoon and Netherstorm. That works, as well.

If the Outland is revamped at some point in the future and Blizzard wanted a "Horde" zone and "Alliance" zone, then between the two, I'd say Shadowmoon for Alliance (Night Elf and Void Elf Demon Hunters) and Netherstorm for Horde (Blood Elf and Nightborne Demon Hunters.)

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Yes ofc I'd like them back more. They have a lot of potential. But I don't htink having their base in the Broken isles is any rel hinderance, i'ts jsut their base you travel you. They don't need to have the zone fully revamped, you just have the ship there or the ship in Mardum, with the min portal to a small town or base in the broken isles, from there they travel to do their business in Azeroth.

THis is because it makes moresense tehmatically for them..rather than force their main base into an area just because it is getting revamped. WE all agree when they did that with Ashran, it wasn't good, people much prferred the originally planned horde and alliance bases in WoD before teh change. Suramar would have made a good neutral city that you would have moved from Dalrana to it in 7.2 .. sobut as DHs won't be the centre of a new expansion, that hardly matters, their HQ could be on another world

But that's going back to class fantasy and not so much about the races.

I'm focused on the races and where the Demon Hunter class could take all 4 elves. We've got to be realistic and practical and everywhere you mentioned can work. But the realistic side is that it won't happen in 1 expansion.

[Mace]

Personal preference, but I prefer Blood Elves and Nightborne to be together.

The high volumes of Arcane is something that is food and drink for the Nightborne.

Void Elves and Night Elves can be in Shadowmoon Valley as the "Alliance zone."

But the Netherstorm is all about the void - it's the twisting nether - and it's the biggest void centric zone in the Outland's too, having the void elves missing there because of the nightborne...

Shadowmoon valley on the other hand has all the night elf related lore with Illidan, the Illidari base, the naga there too, the broken, ofc the shadow moon itself it really fits the nocturnal (or night) elven races more.. os if you were to split htem up they'd be there.

I don't see why nightborne need to be joined at the hip with blood elves all the time.. not that I'm trying to separate them at all, it's just that the Netherestorm is more a void and arcane thing - which is basically the void elves everything..

I can also argue that the fel concentration is more of interest to the night elf and nightborne - given the felborne lore - so it makes sense there.

[Tanaria]

But the Netherstorm is all about the void - it's the twisting nether - and it's the biggest void centric zone in the Outland's too, having the void elves missing there because of the nightborne...

Shadowmoon valley on the other hand has all the night elf related lore with Illidan, the Illidari base, the naga there too, the broken, ofc the shadow moon itself it really fits the nocturnal (or night) elven races more.. os if you were to split htem up they'd be there.

I don't see why nightborne need to be joined at the hip with blood elves all the time.. not that I'm trying to separate them at all, it's just that the Netherestorm is more a void and arcane thing - which is basically the void elves everything..

I can also argue that the fel concentration is more of interest to the night elf and nightborne - given the felborne lore - so it makes sense there.

And arguably, the fel thing could also be a Blood Elf thing with the felblood lore as well. Also considering that Blood Elves were the first playable Elves who could be Warlocks. They had both "fel" classes open to them, first.

At the end of the day, both zones actually work for all 4 races. So maybe instead of arguing who should be where, all 4 should be between the two zones, serving as the Ambassadors.
We're already settling the respective Horde and Alliance Illidari in their revamped EK and Kalimdor zones. (Not saying this is what will happen.)

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Well buddy - we were both wrong.
Still - Blood Elves are going to serve as the main Horde force at the start with the Reliquary whilst the Alliance has the Explorer's League (primarily Dwarves.)