Sepulcher of the First Ones World Race

[CasualVader]

Imagine being Team Liquid going from two World First and then one World Second to all the way to World Fifth...

I honestly wonder what happened since they clearly did very well until Jailer, did they just mentally break down or did the leadership just go bonkers?

[epigramx]

did they just mentally break down or did the leadership just go bonkers?

The only terrible thing I noticed about them, was their raid caller going passive aggressive to defend himself in the middle of the rygelon pulls (because he had called a wipe too early) and others telling him to shut up because they knew he was wrong and he was wasting their valuable time.

They have two options I guess; one: replace him: two: since he is still exceptional at calling stuff in a calm way to fix himself and stop being selfish.

[Bakis]

Imagine being Team Liquid going from two World First and then one World Second to all the way to World Fifth...

I honestly wonder what happened since they clearly did very well until Jailer, did they just mentally break down or did the leadership just go bonkers?

At that point in the race
Outplayed in two ways: player skill & raidleading, a more methodical approach of pulls/analysis
Better WA staff
Better mental fortitude (it also helps alot being in the lead)
Better overall organisation

[Feral Druid ist Op]

Lmao this explains the obsession... 36 year old dude sounding like an 8 year old at a celebrity meet event.

LMAO im Dying, so i was not that war off with him being related to Max

[gobarj]

Say what you want about Max, but he's steamrolling that cash. He mentioned something north of 20k subs during the race which even after the race he's still going to retain a healthy amount (ignoring donations/sponsors/ad rev), all whilst you guys are discussing whether to spell it as Liquid or Liquit. LOL, man's making bank.

[otyknip1]

Since I know a lot of people won't be watching the stream, here's the highlights from Max's post-mortem --

• Jailer bug is kind of bullshit but they decided to use it when it became clear it was the fastest way to kill the boss.
• The decision to quit was mostly a team one. Max made the final decision but it had more to do with the race having already being lost and staying longer at the venue to solidify a World 2nd would not have been beneficial for team morale.
• Echo played better than Liquid on The Jailer, full stop. Max feels Echo's pull strategy was a lot more beneficial for their guild, where analyzing heavily between pulls helped immensely with progression. Obviously Echo simply playing better was the bigger factor in their L.
• RE: Max's tweet about LoD where Echo initially pulled ahead: He stands by what he said, though he does acknowledge he made have the decision to move onto Rygelon may have been premature and also may have cost them some progression.
• A bit annoyed by the Anduin stars bug because they spent a bunch of time formulating a strategy around avoiding it only to find out all guilds after them would be able to plant and kill it. Also major tilt from Gingi's outburst.
• Overall much more difficult raid tier. Probably the best designed WoW encounters of all time.
• Tuning for the last three bosses was tight, tough bosses requiring a God pull to kill is okay.
• Loot RNG bad but didn't have a huge impact on the race due to the length of the race. He doesn't feel that ML is necessary to come back because Blizzard shouldn't change loot for everybody because of the RWF. Splits get worse with ML. Please shut the fuck up and stop asking him about it because there isn't a way to fix split raiding. He views big guilds paying huge lump sums to helpers for loot as charitable.
• If the race continues to go this long it's less likely that they'll come together like they did this time.
• Liquid's vibe is to have bits in between pulls. It doesn't mean they're not focused, it's just how they roll. They were memeing excessively once they pulled out of the race because they gave no fucks.

That's it for now.

I just imagine you with a pen and taking notes. Having his picture framed on your desk, probably a Liquid poster behind you and your favorite max-cup filled with tears.
You should tweet more often, you two might become friends. Or more than friends?

[Gorsameth]

Exploiting bugs to get kills were punished a lot harder before, guess blizzard got a lot more lenient these days.

I'm fairly confident Blizzard doesn't care about the silence bug right now because the race is over anyway.

If Echo hadn't gotten the kill yet and they found the silence bug Blizzard would have despawned the boss, similar to when N'zoth decided to not do his final phase.

[epigramx]

Say what you want about Max, but he's steamrolling that cash. He mentioned something north of 20k subs during the race which even after the race he's still going to retain a healthy amount (ignoring donations/sponsors/ad rev), all whilst you guys are discussing whether to spell it as Liquid or Liquit. LOL, man's making bank.

That's off topic. The point is they want to see good play. Do you want Warren Buffett to play in the world race?

[Millyraynge]

The Paragon vs. Echo discussion can be boiled down to the question of who do you consider better - someone who does a couple incredible feats that no one is even close to but then disappears fairly quickly, or someone who is consistently number one for years. One could say it's a question of quality vs. quantity, but that's not really that either, since Echo's quality is also top notch, it just isn't quite up to what Paragon did in a couple singular events. In the end it's probably impossible to point out who is flat out "better", but we can definitely say who has more wins overall, or who has more impressive feats.

If we talk about one hit wonders like SK Gaming, KIN Raiders or Stars you might be correct. Paragon played constantly on a whole different dimenson compared to all other teams during their life time. They won 3 RWFs in a row. All of these feats had something special on there own.

[epigramx]

Paragon had the best strats. I member seeing Method's strat videos and I was totally confused because they used like 8 different groups and 16 different markers and 32 different movements.

Paragon was like: just split the raid in 2 groups and move here and there only; beautiful; make it as simple as possible but not simpler.

[Skillurs]

I think most people are upset that liquit went bowling instead of atleast waiting til Echo killed jailer to call the race. Even Echo mentioned it felt weird to win the race before they even killed the boss.

[Dranged]

Just the mmo-c threads on rwf are now like 5 times as long as they used to be in the past. Also, following this event has nothing to do with subbing to the game because that is not required. A lot of people who no longer play watch it.

Where did you get that from? The world first progression threads used to be way longer then they are nowadays. The last two expansions the interest in the race as well as the game itself has plummeted.

I did a little bit of searching here on mmo-c.

Sanctum of Dominion: 156 pages
Castle Nathria: 126 pages
Ny'alotha: couldn't find it
The Eternal Palace: 168 pages
Battle of Dazar'alor: 179 pages
Uldir: 160 pages

If we go back to Legion and Warlords of Draenor:

Tomb of Sargeras: 384 pages
The Nighthold: 417 pages
Hellfire Citadel: 465 pages
Blackrock Foundry: 324 pages


Sources:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...to-World-First
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...st-Megathread/
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-First-Thread/
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ffical-Thread/
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ession-thread/
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ession-Thread/
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...e-Progression/
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ession-Thread/
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ession-Thread/

[Sneek]

stalking people on twitter is the most b.itch move ever

[Vynx]

Where did you get that from? The world first progression threads used to be way longer then they are nowadays. The last two expansions the interest in the race as well as the game itself has plummeted.

I did a little bit of searching here on mmo-c.

Sanctum of Dominion: 156 pages
Castle Nathria: 126 pages
Ny'alotha: couldn't find it
The Eternal Palace: 168 pages
Battle of Dazar'alor: 179 pages
Uldir: 160 pages

If we go back to Legion and Warlords of Draenor:

Tomb of Sargeras: 384 pages
The Nighthold: 417 pages
Hellfire Citadel: 465 pages
Blackrock Foundry: 324 pages


Sources:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...to-World-First
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...st-Megathread/
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-First-Thread/
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ffical-Thread/
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ession-thread/
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ession-Thread/
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...e-Progression/
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ession-Thread/
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ession-Thread/

That's an exquisite burn. Well done.

I'm not following this thread closesly, but all I got was that Paragon is the best guild all time and Relapses chokes on Max's dick.

[Bakis]

Azerate: you got owned
But you write out of passion so you're excused

--------

On the topic of the tier. Already stated it was overall great but I wish two things.

That guilds start feeding Twitch with a (optional) 1440p source feed. Cant see shit on my monitor or 4K tv in terms of text like raid frame names, blurry icons etc.

That BLZ either deliver a freecam view for production (the guild ones) or tone down some on ground clutter of AoE, some fights are just too messy to watch, even though I think implementing 1440p & freecam would solve it while keeping the messy clutter.

[Sprucelee]

stalking people on twitter is the most b.itch move ever

Yeah there is some next level cringe in this thread. MMO never fails to bring out those who haven’t touched another human being in years.

- - - Updated - - -

Imagine being Team Liquid going from two World First and then one World Second to all the way to World Fifth...

I honestly wonder what happened since they clearly did very well until Jailer, did they just mentally break down or did the leadership just go bonkers?

Simply being at a venue for that long is the wrong choice if this is the new standard; “mental health” is such a poorly used term these days, but yeah they buckled under the stress, and have said as much.

[antelope591]

Where did you get that from? The world first progression threads used to be way longer then they are nowadays. The last two expansions the interest in the race as well as the game itself has plummeted.

I did a little bit of searching here on mmo-c.

Sanctum of Dominion: 156 pages
Castle Nathria: 126 pages
Ny'alotha: couldn't find it
The Eternal Palace: 168 pages
Battle of Dazar'alor: 179 pages
Uldir: 160 pages

If we go back to Legion and Warlords of Draenor:

Tomb of Sargeras: 384 pages
The Nighthold: 417 pages
Hellfire Citadel: 465 pages
Blackrock Foundry: 324 pages


Sources:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...to-World-First
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...st-Megathread/
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-First-Thread/
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ffical-Thread/
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ession-thread/
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ession-Thread/
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...e-Progression/
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ession-Thread/
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ession-Thread/

Ooof that's a harsh burn. Man came with receipts lmao. But honestly, just spending some time in game you can see interest in raiding is way down compared to what it was even in WoD. There were like 10x the amount of pugs back then. Blizz is just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks these days. Personally I think Sepulcher was a step in the wrong direction.

[tomten]

The Paragon vs. Echo discussion can be boiled down to the question of who do you consider better - someone who does a couple incredible feats that no one is even close to but then disappears fairly quickly, or someone who is consistently number one for years. One could say it's a question of quality vs. quantity, but that's not really that either, since Echo's quality is also top notch, it just isn't quite up to what Paragon did in a couple singular events. In the end it's probably impossible to point out who is flat out "better", but we can definitely say who has more wins overall, or who has more impressive feats.

Yeh, no... Paragon solo healing garrosh is the most impressive end boss kill in history and something that will probably never even come remotely close to being repeated... And thats just one of MANY MANY very impressive kills paragon did... Echo is fantastic, brilliant, top of their game... But they will never come close to paragon lol, its not even a debate xD

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Ooof that's a harsh burn. Man came with receipts lmao. But honestly, just spending some time in game you can see interest in raiding is way down compared to what it was even in WoD. There were like 10x the amount of pugs back then. Blizz is just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks these days. Personally I think Sepulcher was a step in the wrong direction.

I don't think threads on a forum really have any meaningful data.

[gobarj]

Yeh, no... Paragon solo healing garrosh is the most impressive end boss kill in history and something that will probably never even come remotely close to being repeated... And thats just one of MANY MANY very impressive kills paragon did... Echo is fantastic, brilliant, top of their game... But they will never come close to paragon lol, its not even a debate xD

Method back then was not on the same level as Paragon, things change. Paragon wouldn't really work today because they only recruited Finnish members and there's just so much player base. The involvement is massive too now from the community and others.

I'm sure if you put today's Echo or Liquid vs Paragon, it'd be a different story. The raiders spend WAY more effort today than they did in the past.