Dark Ranger Customizations (Coming in 9.2.5)!!!

[Cheezits]

Well...

[Gaidax]

Well...

It sounds like Ghostlands theme based on remix of Blood Elf zone theme. We already know there is a Ghostlands quest line in 9.2.5. So this is not it.

---

I do, however, think that based on Danuser words it will either happen in 9.2.5 or many years from now. 9.2.5 makes sense because there is a forsaken story there, so might as well. But if not there, then it won't be on the table for many years.

[Ersula]

It sounds like Ghostlands theme based on remix of Blood Elf zone theme. We already know there is a Ghostlands quest line in 9.2.5. So this is not it.

First off, it's a new cello cover of Lament of the Highborne, a song associated with Sylvanas & Banshees. Secondly, typically they don't make new songs for questlines, nor is it a loop which is also unusual: Someone pointed out it matches the format of the music played during allied race cutscenes, as in the ones that play during the voice over after you first create a character. For example:



So its a good guess that the new file is what plays over the Darkfallen Character introduction cutscene.

[username993720]

The RPG had something similar called the "Primal"

I know that.
But, i'm specifically talking about the Beastmaster's abilities to mimic animals through aspects.

I said that Blizzard never officially referred to Cenarius as a 'Druid' in the lore, and to my knowledge continue to refrain from directly calling him or any Keeper a Druid. Dryads are in the same boat, never officially being referred to as Druids. The closest you get is a non-canon Hearthstone Lunara representing the Druid.

My point about shapeshifting is merely an example of one difference between Keepers and Night Elf Druids. At no point did I say Druids must exclusively have shapeshifting.

Just like I can make a point that Necromancers don't use fire magic while Warlocks do, making an observation of a difference between the concepts. It doesn't mean Necromancers can never use Fire magic, or Warlocks have exclusive use of Fire magic. That would be twisting my example of a difference between the two identities. These classes aren't being defined by specific abilities if I'm merely pointing out the differences between their overall titles and themes.

If a Druid doesn't exhibit lunar capabilities, is he not a Druid?

Right, so we establish that Blizzard can do whatever they wish with the lore, regardless of whether you think they make sense or not.

So when you ask what a Blood Mage would be without Arcane or Fel addiction? Anything Blizzard wants them to be moving forward.

The definition of 'Death Knight' has changed multiple times over the course of the entire series. It started as a Orc Necrolyte soul in an undead Human Knight's body. That is now very far removed from the definition of the Player Death Knight class.

That's all nice and dandy. But, do we actually have anything right now to point at such direction?

Vampires aren't playable now, and what Blizzard allows in the future is totally up to them.

And just saying, even if Blizzard can always fudge the lore, so far they wrote a dead end for new Death Knights now that the Helm of Domination is gone. I would say it's unlikely that any new races would have access to Death Knights unless Blizzard works around this one complication.

You think playable Vampires wouldn't have access to Death Knights?

While not lore, gameplay-wise there is the Necrolord Frost Mage that uses what seems to be Necromancy to take the form of a Skeletal Mage.

Why do you ask?

Skeletal Mages. Though, not directly said to be specifically Frost users in lore, they seem to do so in Archerus.

WC2 Blizzard does, as far as lore is concerned.

The current Mages likely do not conjure from a location, rather they create it using Arcane magic. Arcane magic didn't officially exist in WC2 lore.

I guess we need an expansion about that location spot, akin to Northrend in WotLK.

Which is due to the Blood Runes that they tap, which sources back to Shadowlands where Venthyr reside.

That is the connection in lore. Their powers come from the same source that Venthyr live.

I do not dispute that.

HOTS takes references from WoW, so that's no surprise. This is why Tyrande has 'Hunter's Mark' too. HOTS is not reflective of lore, it is an abstraction of gameplay.

Like look at Yrel's entire gameplay kit. She wields a 2H hammer, has abilities that support a 2H Hammer style gameplay, yet she has abilities and role of a Prot Paladin, even though she doesn't use a Shield. Yrel is merely an abstraction of Prot gameplay onto a classic 'Draenei Paladin with Crystal Warhammer' archetype.

Yes, but it's not just HotS.
"Mana tap is unique in that it is (or was) one of the few racials not only directly referenced in the lore, but a large part of it. Via Illidan Stormrage, Kael'thas Sunstrider was able to learn a formidable technique by which to sate the elves' magical addiction: the process of forcibly taking arcane magic from external sources. A servant of his, Rommath, went on to spread these teachings back home in Quel'Thalas, allowing the general sin'dorei populace (of which we the players belong to) to better deal with the pangs of addiction."

To be honest, it's really up to Blizzard what they decide to do. When Demon Hunters were added, I still argued that Warlocks could have kept their version of Metamorphosis gameplay, because I think it was different enough from DH melee style. Blizzard begged to differ, and felt a complete rework was necessary. That's really up to them.

For a Blood Mage to ever be playable, there has to be a good reason for Blizzard to choosing it in the first place. I don't think there is a good reason for a new Blood Mage class at this moment.

Right now we're hot on the heels of 'Evoker', which has a new style of Fire and Arcane Spellcaster gameplay and has unique features like 'Empower'. In a different multiverse, maybe Evokers could have been designed as a Blood Mage class instead.

Otherwise, I wouldn't be opposed to Blood Mage being an official Class Skin customization for Blood Elf Mage; changing all Frost and Arcane specs to appropriately themed Fire(or fel) abilities and presenting the Verdant Spheres as a permanent customization option. I'm all for full representation of a well known Warcraft Concept in the game, regardless of whether it is a completely new class or not.

Forgot that Evokers literally fill that niche. Yea... not gonna see any Mage-like class anytime soon.

Why keep Metamprphosis in the Warlock? It could have literally been a DH aspect. It'd have just blurred the fantasy differences between the two.

Why get rid of Arcane? Blood Mages use Arcane as well.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/mimic

https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/emulate

Hunters use spells to have the same effects As animals(see emulate 1) they do not take up speech mannerisms or behaviour of them (see mimic and emulate 2), the magical effect of cheetah for example doesn’t make them case gazelles or run on all fours which is what the second use of the verb means and both uses of the verb have different synonyms.

We're literally arguing about a gameplay representation in a fantasy game. Twist it how you want, that's an aspect of the Beastmaster.

no it’s not a solution Illidan is always a demon he is distinctly apart from other demon hunters including the illidari.

Obviously. He's a main character.
Just like only the Lich King wore the Helm of Domination.

sigh…it’s on the illidan page I just linked you.
From the ultimate visual guide.

The change to it being fel is a retcon in chronicles.

Thanks.

I think you miss understand, though I don’t quite see how as I laid all of this out in a earlier post.

2/3 is referring to the parts of each class 1/2 in DH’s cause. Blood and frost are not based off of WC3 abilities, wind walker and most weaving aren’t, and vengeance for demon hunters.

But, we're not talking about them. I've already acknowledged that Blizzard can expand on a concept.
We're talking about the WC3 abilities which were translated into WoW, showing that they are indeed canon to lore.

then take my word for it, or don’t, I don’t care.

When your not willing to put in the effect to read even a couple of paragraphs linked in a tweet or glance at wowpedia I’m not willing to dig through books for quotes.

It's much easier for someone who had actually read that paragraph.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

We're literally arguing about a gameplay representation in a fantasy game. Twist it how you want, that's an aspect of the Beastmaster.

it’s not as the definitions prove as mimicry and emulation are not the same thing unless you think hunters are using magic to walk around on all fours.

Obviously. He's a main character.
Just like only the Lich King wore the Helm of Domination.

yes which is why all the things you’ve claimed about him and the other demon hunters is bunk as they are not the same

But, we're not talking about them. I've already acknowledged that Blizzard can expand on a concept.
We're talking about the WC3 abilities which were translated into WoW, showing that they are indeed canon to lore.

no actually we were never talking about what the translation between WC3 and wow means for the lore that a totally different topic we haven’t touched at all.

It's much easier for someone who had actually read that paragraph.

the world is your oyster you can read all the paragraphs you want, you just might have to find the books they are in.

[Triceron]

If a Druid doesn't exhibit lunar capabilities, is he not a Druid?

Ask Blizzard. Seems like an interesting lore question, doesn't it?

That's all nice and dandy. But, do we actually have anything right now to point at such direction?

No, we don't.

That's why I was using it as a speculative example.

If you'd like, I could point at Evokers being playable as an example of Blizzard doing anything they want with lore to make a new class playable.

Skeletal Mages

I think you misunderstood. I wasn't talking about Skeletal Mages of Acherus that use frost magic.

I was talking about the Player Frost Mage, using Necrolord Covenant, which grants them the ability to turn into a Skeletal Mage. That would be an example of a Player Frost Mage who is using Necromancy, while not being either a Death Knight or a Lich. And just to reiterate - this is merely an answering your question of 'What else uses Frost and Necromancy'. This is merely a gameplay example, and by no means lore or canonical at all.

You think playable Vampires wouldn't have access to Death Knights?

I don't think Vampires would be playable, so it goes hand in hand that a non-playable race wouldn't have access to classes.

And let's be clear, you asked me my opinion, so don't go twisting this as some sort of factual statement. You literally asked what I think. If you don't want me giving you an opinion you disagree with, then you shouldn't be asking for opinions.

I guess we need an expansion about that location spot, akin to Northrend in WotLK.

Okay.

Yes, but it's not just HotS.
"Mana tap is unique in that it is (or was) one of the few racials not only directly referenced in the lore, but a large part of it. Via Illidan Stormrage, Kael'thas Sunstrider was able to learn a formidable technique by which to sate the elves' magical addiction: the process of forcibly taking arcane magic from external sources. A servant of his, Rommath, went on to spread these teachings back home in Quel'Thalas, allowing the general sin'dorei populace (of which we the players belong to) to better deal with the pangs of addiction."

Racials are abstractions of gameplay, not lore. I've made this point before about Masteries and Specs. Racials fall into this same category.

It shouldn't be assumed that any of this is actually lore, because gameplay mechanics like summoning a Mole Machine that appears for you when you're in Shadowlands or in some cosmic off-world location that takes you back to Azeroth is not a good example of lore.

Racials, like abilities, can be changed by Blizzard any time, any expansion. It's not lore.

Forgot that Evokers literally fill that niche. Yea... not gonna see any Mage-like class anytime soon.

Yep, which is actually why I used Blood Mage as an example. I can always point out that Blizzard had left a niche open for Fire and Arcane magic, and filled it with Evokers. So if you ever have an argument that the Fire Mage took up some theme that leaves no room for another Fire Arcane Magic class, I'd just point at Evokers existing in that very spot. Blizzard doesn't care about what themes are already being covered in the game. They can make up new spells, new abilities and new gameplay mechanics that cover those same themes.

Devastation could literally have been a Blood Mage spec.

Why keep Metamprphosis in the Warlock? It could have literally been a DH aspect. It'd have just blurred the fantasy differences between the two.

Because Warlocks already had it for multiple expansions and it fits the Spellcaster gameplay.

It would be messy for Demon Hunters because in order to utilize a spellcasting spec, they need a full range of Int Leather gear and Int weapons.

I think in this case, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Blizzard felt otherwise.

Why get rid of Arcane? Blood Mages use Arcane as well.

I wouldn't get rid of Arcane, I'd just theme it closer to the Blood Mage's theme. I'd probably change the color of the Arcane abilities from purple to green, mostly to match Kael'thas' Gravity Lapse and Verdant Spheres, which may have represented a 'hint of fel' in his spelllcasting.

[Chain Chungus]

Steve just said in the live Q&A they would add Dark Ranger customizations when it made sense for the story.

We just had 3 expansions with Sylvanas and Nathanos as prime characters...

Unless making sense in the story is 9.2.5?

Still death expansion, Tirisfal being updated, you never know.

[username993720]

it’s not as the definitions prove as mimicry and emulation are not the same thing unless you think hunters are using magic to walk around on all fours.

They are synonymous with one another.
Why do you think the Cheetah aspect gives you a speed boost?

yes which is why all the things you’ve claimed about him and the other demon hunters is bunk as they are not the same

Well, main characters usually do this so you can recognize them in a crowd..

no actually we were never talking about what the translation between WC3 and wow means for the lore that a totally different topic we haven’t touched at all.

What does it mean, then? If not an acklowledgment of their existence, what is it?

the world is your oyster you can read all the paragraphs you want, you just might have to find the books they are in.

And the page, and the paragraph, and the line.
I don't get it. If you are so versed in the matter, what's so difficult?

Ask Blizzard. Seems like an interesting lore question, doesn't it?

Your words. Just with shapeshifting.

No, we don't.

That's why I was using it as a speculative example.

If you'd like, I could point at Evokers being playable as an example of Blizzard doing anything they want with lore to make a new class playable

.

Anything? Aspects' powers are not grounded in lore?

I think you misunderstood. I wasn't talking about Skeletal Mages of Acherus that use frost magic.

I was talking about the Player Frost Mage, using Necrolord Covenant, which grants them the ability to turn into a Skeletal Mage. That would be an example of a Player Frost Mage who is using Necromancy, while not being either a Death Knight or a Lich. And just to reiterate - this is merely an answering your question of 'What else uses Frost and Necromancy'. This is merely a gameplay example, and by no means lore or canonical at all.

Then, don't mind me disregarding it.

I don't think Vampires would be playable, so it goes hand in hand that a non-playable race wouldn't have access to classes.

And let's be clear, you asked me my opinion, so don't go twisting this as some sort of factual statement. You literally asked what I think. If you don't want me giving you an opinion you disagree with, then you shouldn't be asking for opinions.

No? Venthyr? San'layn?
For christ sake, we have playable werewolves. It's part of the fantasy.

Racials are abstractions of gameplay, not lore. I've made this point before about Masteries and Specs. Racials fall into this same category.

It shouldn't be assumed that any of this is actually lore, because gameplay mechanics like summoning a Mole Machine that appears for you when you're in Shadowlands or in some cosmic off-world location that takes you back to Azeroth is not a good example of lore.

Racials, like abilities, can be changed by Blizzard any time, any expansion. It's not lore.

It is lore.
For gameplay purposes, it isn't restricted.
For gameplay balance, it is changed.
But, by all mean, it is lore-based in its core.

Yep, which is actually why I used Blood Mage as an example. I can always point out that Blizzard had left a niche open for Fire and Arcane magic, and filled it with Evokers. So if you ever have an argument that the Fire Mage took up some theme that leaves no room for another Fire Arcane Magic class, I'd just point at Evokers existing in that very spot. Blizzard doesn't care about what themes are already being covered in the game. They can make up new spells, new abilities and new gameplay mechanics that cover those same themes.

Devastation could literally have been a Blood Mage spec.

Don't go that far. Blood Mages have nothing to do with Dragons.
As for overlapping themes, how many times do you think a theme can repeat? Like, we have Warlocks and Demon Hunters. Do you see a third fel user being added?

Because Warlocks already had it for multiple expansions and it fits the Spellcaster gameplay.

It would be messy for Demon Hunters because in order to utilize a spellcasting spec, they need a full range of Int Leather gear and Int weapons.

I think in this case, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Blizzard felt otherwise.

It took away from the summoning aspect of Demonology - what the whole spec was built around.

I wouldn't get rid of Arcane, I'd just theme it closer to the Blood Mage's theme. I'd probably change the color of the Arcane abilities from purple to green, mostly to match Kael'thas' Gravity Lapse and Verdant Spheres, which may have represented a 'hint of fel' in his spelllcasting.

That's fire.
Arcane is another matter entirely, and is being used by Blood Mages as it is.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

They are synonymous with one another.
Why do you think the Cheetah aspect gives you a speed boost?

no they are not synonymous different uses of words have different meanings and different synonymous as Webster shows on the links I provided.

And as the wow manual says it’s a spell with a magical effect it emulates the speed of a cheetah it doesn’t make one take on there mannerisms or behaviour.

Well, main characters usually do this so you can recognize them in a crowd..

you think illidan is the way he is for crowd recognition? That they set up all this unique lore and transformations so you wouldn’t mistake him for some one else even though he’s a characters who rarely showed up with more then two other people at a time prior to legion?

What does it mean, then? If not an acklowledgment of their existence, what is it?

it could mean any number of things you’d have to take on ability by ability basis.

Any thing from “We like this idea, his has a cool even if the design doesn’t work, the design does work, this is canon, this doesn’t fit X archetype but we can fit it into Y, fans like this.” and so on and so on. The process of designing games lore and sequels is not nearly as binary as “we kept the same thing so it’s cannon”

And the page, and the paragraph, and the line.
I don't get it. If you are so versed in the matter, what's so difficult?

simple, it requires me to have the book on hand when posting, to find the chapter, then page, then paragraphs, then the line and to copy it out(and not just lie).

But here’s the key part where it really gets hard. It requires me to care enough to do all the above, and in this case I’ve ran out of care.

[ro9ue]

Unless making sense in the story is 9.2.5?

Still death expansion, Tirisfal being updated, you never know.

I hope so but if it doesn't happen then I think we aren't getting them for the foreseeable future. They had plenty of story opportunities to introduce since BFA.

[wowrefugee]

Steve just said in the live Q&A they would add Dark Ranger customizations when it made sense for the story.

We just had 3 expansions with Sylvanas and Nathanos as prime characters...

lol yeah, if its not added in 9.2.5, theyre never getting added

It would be like if Legion happened and yet demon hunters weren't added, but in BfA they said "we'll add them when it makes sense"

they use that "when it fits the story" answer so much, I can only hope they actually mean it this time and its in next patch

[Triceron]

Anything? Aspects' powers are not grounded in lore

Not ones that have access to all 5 Dragonflight powers simultaneously.

Chromatic Dragonflight would have been the only ones.

No? Venthyr? San'layn?
For christ sake, we have playable werewolves. It's part of the fantasy.

Darkfallen is a possibility. San'layn less so since they only had diplomatic relations with Sylvanas, but we will have to see how far Blizzard chooses to bridge that connection.

We will see how Blizzard chooses to represent them overall.

It is lore.
For gameplay purposes, it isn't restricted.
For gameplay balance, it is changed.
But, by all mean, it is lore-based in its core.

It needs to be recognized having been in the story to be recognized as lore.

It is not lore that all Pandarens are 'Bouncy'. This feature has never been applied or used in canon.

Don't go that far. Blood Mages have nothing to do with Dragons.

I never said they did. I was making a point that most of the spells we seen from Evoker could have been used directly for a Blood Mage instead. Pyre is an explosive AoE, Fire breathing is a bursty gout of flame, they have a channeled arcane Disintegration beam, and they can Empower their abilities. These are all themes and abilities that Blood Mages would be fully capable of, and well within their theme to use. A singular Fire+Arcane DPS spec would be different enough from regular Fire Mage.

As for overlapping themes, how many times do you think a theme can repeat? Like, we have Warlocks and Demon Hunters. Do you see a third fel user being added?

Fire Mage, Destruction Warlock and Elemental Shaman all use Fire spells, and now we have Evokers on top of this. 4 Fire based Spellcasting specs.

Did I see a 4th Fire based spellcaster being added to the game? No, I did not. Yet here we are. What exactly stops Blizzard from adding more anything? I never saw Blizzard outlining any rule. Any such overlap issue came directly from overzealous fans, and most of that was thrown out the window when they were arguing that only Warlocks would be Fel users and Demon Hunters wouldn't be playable.

It took away from the summoning aspect of Demonology - what the whole spec was built around.

They always had demon summoning in every spec. Have you never played a Warlock?

Metamorphosis never took any demon summoning away from Warlocks. This is just a big misunderstanding on your part

That's fire.
Arcane is another matter entirely, and is being used by Blood Mages as it is.

Heroes of the Storm turns any of his spells green when you empower them with Verdant Spheres. Gravity Lapse is naturally green as well, so no not just fire.

[username993720]

no they are not synonymous different uses of words have different meanings and different synonymous as Webster shows on the links I provided.

And as the wow manual says it’s a spell with a magical effect it emulates the speed of a cheetah it doesn’t make one take on there mannerisms or behaviour.

Yes.
"Same same. But different".

you think illidan is the way he is for crowd recognition? That they set up all this unique lore and transformations so you wouldn’t mistake him for some one else even though he’s a characters who rarely showed up with more then two other people at a time prior to legion?

That's how you know a character is significant.
They're also usually larger than us, the players, in-game.

it could mean any number of things you’d have to take on ability by ability basis.

Any thing from “We like this idea, his has a cool even if the design doesn’t work, the design does work, this is canon, this doesn’t fit X archetype but we can fit it into Y, fans like this.” and so on and so on. The process of designing games lore and sequels is not nearly as binary as “we kept the same thing so it’s cannon”

You seem to know what's behind their reasoning?

simple, it requires me to have the book on hand when posting, to find the chapter, then page, then paragraphs, then the line and to copy it out(and not just lie).

But here’s the key part where it really gets hard. It requires me to care enough to do all the above, and in this case I’ve ran out of care.

Just go look for it in WoWpedia.

Not ones that have access to all 5 Dragonflight powers simultaneously.

Chromatic Dragonflight would have been the only ones.

Divided by specs. So, instead of choosing a flight to be blessed by, you're either a Red\Blue or Green\Bronze.

Darkfallen is a possibility.

To be honest they are more Undead Elves than Vampires. We will see how Blizzard chooses to represent them overall.

We'll see.

It needs to be recognized having been in the story to be recognized as lore.

It is not lore that all Pandarens are 'Bouncy'. This feature has never been applied or used in canon.

I can't tell you about Pandaren. But, other races (up to Cataclysm) have lore reasons for their racials.

Honest question - what stops Blizzard from adding one?

Fire Mage, Destruction Warlock and Elemental Shaman all use Fire spells, and now we have Evokers on top of this. 4 Fire based Spellcasting specs.

Did I see a 4th Fire based spellcaster being added to the game? No, I did not. Yet here we are.

You're generalizing. Two are using Fel Fire (Warlocks and Demon Hunters), two are using Arcane Fire (Mages and Evokers), one is using elemental Fire (Shaman) and one is using explosives (Hunter).

They always had demon summoning in every spec. Have you never played a Warlock?

Metamorphosis never took any demon summoning away from Warlocks. This is just a big misunderstanding on your part

Not as much as Demonology.
You got rid of your Demons once you got into Metamorphosis.

Heroes of the Storm turns any of his spells green when you empower them with Verdant Spheres. Gravity Lapse is naturally green as well, so no not just fire.

I've checked his raid abilities and it is, indeed, Arcane.
All abilities? I know Flamestrike and Gravity Lapse do.

[Triceron]

Divided by specs. So, instead of choosing a flight to be blessed by, you're either a Red\Blue or Green\Bronze.

There's no difference here. It's the same problem.

We're talking about a Class that has to have access to all Dragonflight powers. It doesn't matter if it uses them together, or has a dedicated spec for each. The only known creature in the lore capable of having access to all Dragonflight powers was a Chromatic Dragon.

We'll see.

9.2.5 is shaping up with a lot of strong datamine evidence, yes. Could very well be possible.

I can't tell you about Pandaren. But, other races (up to Cataclysm) have lore reasons for their racials.

So every Goblin racially has Rocket Boots and a Hobgoblin minion? I don't think so.

You're generalizing. Two are using Fel Fire (Warlocks and Demon Hunters), two are using Arcane Fire (Mages and Evokers), one is using elemental Fire (Shaman) and one is using explosives (Hunter).

Don't forget Monks use Elemental Fire as well.

So yes, that's a lot. I don't see it being a problem, do you? If they wanted to add another Elemental or Arcane or Fel fire user, then as long as Blizzard feels it's right, I'm not opposed to them adding it. Cuz why not have a Blademaster that also wields Elemental Fiery blades? That could be a 3rd Elemental Fire user.

The blademasters are known to have existed long before the corruption of the orcs at the hand of the Burning Legion when the Burning Blade clan was still dwelling in Hallvalor in Nagrand and using elemental fire magic.
blademasters are shown to be capable of manipulating fire, with many of them using abilities such as "Blazing Coil"
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Blademaster

Not as much as Demonology.
You got rid of your Demons once you got into Metamorphosis.

And Warlock players praised Blizzard for it. Metamorphosis was the most popular and well praised Warlock spec because of Metamorphosis gameplay. And it should be a no brainer since they literally lifted the entire Metamorphosis gameplay from Guild Wars 2's "Death Shroud" Necromancer, which was already really fun.

Blizzard fucked up the Summoner gameplay when they reintroduced it in Legion, and it remains the second least played spec today

https://wowanalytica.com/statistics

2. Warlock
Demonology
156 246 1.18%

I mean, if you played a Demonology Warlock, you would know this first hand.

I've checked his raid abilities and it is, indeed, Arcane.
All abilities? I know Flamestrike and Gravity Lapse do.

I'm not talking about his Raid abilities, I'm talking about his representation in Heroes of the Storm. I much prefer them theming a Blood Mage class to more modern representation like in HOTS rather than WoW Raid mechanics circa 2007.

Look at how they didn't even use any of Illidan's TBC Raid abilities when theming the Demon Hunter. It's all completely themed on Heroes of the Storm Illidan.

And same applies for Evokers. Much of their look and style for abilities comes from Heroes of the Storm's style as well, rather than using old Vanilla or TBC raid mechanics.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Yes.
"Same same. But different".

that’s not how the English langue works. It’s not the same but different it’s just different meaning a totally different thing with different synonyms.

Just like how keeping to the hunter theme a bow can be a bow and arrow, a knot you tie, something you wear, something you do to show deference. All of these use the same word all of them have different meanings all of them have different synonyms, they are not the same but different.

That's how you know a character is significant.
They're also usually larger than us, the players, in-game.

No it’s not. Anduin was Significant in clsssic but looked the same as any other human kid, so did Tyranda, varian, garrosh, Moria, ect ect ect.

They don’t make the lore for all these characters so they will stand out in a crowd they do it because they are fundamentally different in terms of scope and importance.

Illidan doesn’t look the way he does so he will stand out in a group of other demon hunters he looks that way because he is different from them in almost every way and his lore reflects that.

You seem to know what's behind their reasoning?

actually no your the only one who acted like that when you said they are in both games so they are canon all I said is that there could be any number of different reasons that vary from ability to ability and not just the binary if ingame = canon as you made it out to be.

Just go look for it in WoWpedia.

you want me to look for a specific line from the book where sylvanas thinks of her self as a ranger while a banshee on wowpedia?

You must know that’s not how wowpedia works that they don’t transcribe the books in full and instead just grab quotes or page numbers of new info or things of great import.

[username993720]

There's no difference here. It's the same problem.

We're talking about a Class that has to have access to all Dragonflight powers. It doesn't matter if it uses them together, or has a dedicated spec for each. The only known creature in the lore capable of having access to all Dragonflight powers was a Chromatic Dragon.

You know you can only choose one color for your Dracthyr, right?

9.2.5 is shaping up with a lot of strong datamine evidence, yes. Could very well be possible.

They better not make it a cheap replacement.

So every Goblin racially has Rocket Boots and a Hobgoblin minion? I don't think so.

Most. Racial traits is something that is characteristic to most of the population.

Don't forget Monks use Elemental Fire as well.

So yes, that's a lot. I don't see it being a problem, do you? If they wanted to add another Elemental or Arcane or Fel fire user, then as long as Blizzard feels it's right, I'm not opposed to them adding it. Cuz why not have a Blademaster that also wields Elemental Fiery blades? That could be a 3rd Elemental Fire user.

The blademasters are known to have existed long before the corruption of the orcs at the hand of the Burning Legion when the Burning Blade clan was still dwelling in Hallvalor in Nagrand and using elemental fire magic.
blademasters are shown to be capable of manipulating fire, with many of them using abilities such as "Blazing Coil"
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Blademaster

You're right. Blademaster incoming.

And Warlock players praised Blizzard for it. Metamorphosis was the most popular and well praised Warlock spec because of Metamorphosis gameplay. And it should be a no brainer since they literally lifted the entire Metamorphosis gameplay from Guild Wars 2's "Death Shroud" Necromancer, which was already really fun.

Blizzard fucked up the Summoner gameplay when they reintroduced it in Legion, and it remains the second least played spec today

https://wowanalytica.com/statistics

2. Warlock
Demonology
156 246 1.18%

I mean, if you played a Demonology Warlock, you would know this first hand.

Then, you invalidate the existence of Demon Hunters.

I'm not talking about his Raid abilities, I'm talking about his representation in Heroes of the Storm. I much prefer them theming a Blood Mage class to more modern representation like in HOTS rather than WoW Raid mechanics circa 2007.

Look at how they didn't even use any of Illidan's TBC Raid abilities when theming the Demon Hunter. It's all completely themed on Heroes of the Storm Illidan.

And same applies for Evokers. Much of their look and style for abilities comes from Heroes of the Storm's style as well, rather than using old Vanilla or TBC raid mechanics.

I agree. HotS is more relevant.

that’s not how the English langue works. It’s not the same but different it’s just different meaning a totally different thing with different synonyms.

Just like how keeping to the hunter theme a bow can be a bow and arrow, a knot you tie, something you wear, something you do to show deference. All of these use the same word all of them have different meanings all of them have different synonyms, they are not the same but different.

Dude. Stop trying to overcomplicate things. Aspects are meant to be the representation of Beastmaster's mimicry of wild animals.

No it’s not. Anduin was Significant in clsssic but looked the same as any other human kid, so did Tyranda, varian, garrosh, Moria, ect ect ect.

They don’t make the lore for all these characters so they will stand out in a crowd they do it because they are fundamentally different in terms of scope and importance.

Illidan doesn’t look the way he does so he will stand out in a group of other demon hunters he looks that way because he is different from them in almost every way and his lore reflects that.

Anduin was nothing special in Vanilla. Just a trophy model for the throne room.

actually no your the only one who acted like that when you said they are in both games so they are canon all I said is that there could be any number of different reasons that vary from ability to ability and not just the binary if ingame = canon as you made it out to be.

I bet it's just random pickings, right?

you want me to look for a specific line from the book where sylvanas thinks of her self as a ranger while a banshee on wowpedia?

You must know that’s not how wowpedia works that they don’t transcribe the books in full and instead just grab quotes or page numbers of new info or things of great import.

Then, how do you expect to have a serious discussion?

[Triceron]

You know you can only choose one color for your Dracthyr, right?

Not really. You can use Barbershop any time to change your Dragon colors, and also they showed hair colors sporting multiple color options.

They better not make it a cheap replacement.

I've been saying this would be the case for a long time. I mean if there was any time to say "I told you so"....

Most. Racial traits is something that is characteristic to most of the population.

The ones that are explicitly featured in lore, yes.

Then, you invalidate the existence of Demon Hunters.

Warlocks still have lore implying they can turn into Demon Form. It still doesn't invalidate Demon Hunters.

I agree. HotS is more relevant.

It's the best template we have for more WoW classes right now really.

A shame they won't be updating with more heroes. We sorely needed a proper Vol'jin and Vashj in Heroes of the Storm.



One of my favourite takes

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Dude. Stop trying to overcomplicate things. Aspects are meant to be the representation of Beastmaster's mimicry of wild animals.

it’s not over complicating any thing it’s just calling it what it is and that’s magic that has the same effect as the respective animals which isn’t mimicry as the definitions of the words prove.

Anduin was nothing special in Vanilla. Just a trophy model for the throne room.

I assume by leaving out Tyranda, varian, garrosh and Moria the same goes for them in your view?

Is no one a significant character to you until they have a unique model?

I bet it's just random pickings, right?

if you want to believe that go ahead it’s not any of the reasons I gave.

Then, how do you expect to have a serious discussion?

well ideally a serious discussion would be had between two or more people who have a under standing of a subject and have looked into it on even a basic level so there is a common ground of knowledge to use as a starting point and then further knowledge can be introduced for the benefit of mutually understanding.

So in short I don’t expect to have one. you have demonstrated numerous times that you don’t understand the basics and even when you are provided with them you refuse to go over what has been linked for multiple post.

[username993720]

Not really. You can use Barbershop any time to change your Dragon colors, and also they showed hair colors sporting multiple color options.

Hair color doesn't define your flight.

I've been saying this would be the case for a long time. I mean if there was any time to say "I told you so"....

Whoa... hold on. It didn't happen yet.

The ones that are explicitly featured in lore, yes.

Like Shadowmeld?

Warlocks still have lore implying they can turn into Demon Form. It still doesn't invalidate Demon Hunters.

Gameplay-wise. Though, there are Holy Priests and Paladins.
It's just that the Metamorphosis used the Illidan model, which killed the fantasy of it being a Warlock. I'd rather have it like Gul'dan's Demon form in the Nighthold. And no, not those lame-ass purple horns and wings that demonic fury granted you. They can potentially take inspiration from the Dracthyr, who show draconic features in visage form and eventually turn into a dragonman.

It's the best template we have for more WoW classes right now really.

A shame they won't be updating with more heroes. We sorely needed a proper Vol'jin and Vashj in Heroes of the Storm.

They will. Once in a while. Like they did with Deathwing.
Do you see any other relevant Heroes that can serve as a template for a new class?

it’s not over complicating any thing it’s just calling it what it is and that’s magic that has the same effect as the respective animals which isn’t mimicry as the definitions of the words prove.

So what, Rexxar gets down on all four, roars and starts running?

I assume by leaving out Tyranda, varian, garrosh and Moria the same goes for them in your view?

Is no one a significant character to you until they have a unique model?

Varian wasn't in vanilla. Neither did Garrosh. They were special characters, though. So was Tyrande, the racial leader of the Night elves. Moira was a hostile mob NPC back then.

if you want to believe that go ahead it’s not any of the reasons I gave.

It's not like they looked at them and realized their relevancy to the class. It's all by chance.

well ideally a serious discussion would be had between two or more people who have a under standing of a subject and have looked into it on even a basic level so there is a common ground of knowledge to use as a starting point and then further knowledge can be introduced for the benefit of mutually understanding.

So in short I don’t expect to have one. you have demonstrated numerous times that you don’t understand the basics and even when you are provided with them you refuse to go over what has been linked for multiple post.

Provided? You only use your own words.

[Triceron]

Hair color doesn't define your flight.

Dracthyr don't have a 'flight'.

Like Shadowmeld?

Partially. That is still more gameplay than lore, since shadowmeld hasn't explicitly been a part of WoW lore. In WC3 its lore was specifically a blessing granted by Elune to her followers. Druids and male Night Elves like Demon Hunters did not have because at the time of WC3 lore they were not Elune's followers. Also it only activated at night, when the moon was out.

Shadowmeld hasn't actually gotten lore updates since the WC3 manual. It just exists in gameplay as a race-wide ability usable at any time. No lore explanation given, not even a simple update to say every Night Elf has it. It just exists as a gameplay that works for any Night Elf, including the Highborne Mages, during any time of day.

So WoW's Shadowmeld isn't actually lore based at all.

Gameplay-wise. Though, there are Holy Priests and Paladins.
It's just that the Metamorphosis used the Illidan model, which killed the fantasy of it being a Warlock. I'd rather have it like Gul'dan's Demon form in the Nighthold. And no, not those lame-ass purple horns and wings that demonic fury granted you. They can potentially take inspiration from the Dracthyr, who show draconic features in visage form and eventually turn into a dragonman.

To be honest, Warlocks could have had more Pitlord and Eredar style forms to give more of an homage to WC3. Shadow Illidan was merely used because Illidan is cool. And it worked, cuz Warlock Metamorphosis was actually quite cool.

They will. Once in a while. Like they did with Deathwing.
Do you see any other relevant Heroes that can serve as a template for a new class?

Every Hero could literally be its own class in WoW. WoW is simply not flexible enough to ever get around to realizing them as new classes.