Are people really okay with the "new" race restrictions?

[Syegfryed]

Your post just proves a point you are not being truthful in your posts,

My post literally means what reality is, dracthyr is a race of dragonkin, period.

[Aresk]

If they are different the concept is not the same

I said the underlying concept. Two different things can absolutely have the same underlying concept. What you're talking about are models. Both races and classes have models attributed to them. The armor is tied to the model, not the race nor the class. A balance druid shows armor with one glyph but not without the glyph because it uses a different model. A dracthyr shows armor in one form and not the other because it's a different model. A demon hunter shows armor in one form and not the other because it changes models.

However, if you are adamant that only racial models count (despite the fact that a model is a model) then mechagnomes cannot display all their armor slots either. The precedent was set back in BfA. If a model has a key feature that does not work well with representing armor, that armor slot is not displayed on it. Be it druid, demon hunter, dracthyr, or mechagnome. And as I mentioned, I think this is a good thing, as it allows for more unique models to be added to the game without having to unduly worry about clipping or proportion issues.

[Syegfryed]

I said the underlying concept. Two different things can absolutely have the same underlying concept. What you're talking about are models. Both races and classes have models attributed to them. The armor is tied to the model, not the race nor the class. A balance druid shows armor with one glyph but not without the glyph because it uses a different model. A dracthyr shows armor in one form and not the other because it's a different model. A demon hunter shows armor in one form and not the other because it changes models.

Correction, a dracthyr don't show armor in other form because blizzard sold the class, as a race, thats why it gets this messy and thats why you people keep comapring the RACE with another class, without evne realazying.

They jsut did something lazy, thats it, there is no reason for the dragon not use armor other than they nto bothering with it.

However, if you are adamant that only racial models count (despite the fact that a model is a model) then mechagnomes cannot display all their armor slots either. The precedent was set back in BfA. If a model has a key feature that does not work well with representing armor, that armor slot is not displayed on it. Be it druid, demon hunter, dracthyr, or mechagnome. .

Mechagnomes still use your own armor, you can see it, and not some defautlt set pieces you can change in the barber shoip. so, yeah, not rly the same. Besides.

And as I mentioned, I think this is a good thing, as it allows for more unique models to be added to the game without having to unduly worry about clipping or proportion issues

its rly weird to say blizzard being lazy as "being more unique", but sure. Don't wear the armor, other people want it.

[kenn9530]

My post literally means what reality is, dracthyr is a race of dragonkin, period.

You dont know what reality is, dracthyr and the evoker class is the same thing, you cant be an evoker without being a dracthyr and the same goes the other way.

They are not suited to using armour or weapons because dragons dont have any need for them, just the same for druids they have no requirement for armour or weapons in thier transformed state. Its makes no sense at all for animal classes to use armour, no dragons at all use armour in WoW why would the dracthyr need to either.

[LionSinMaikeru]

I don't mind the class being race specific. But what I *do* mind is that Dracthyr for some reason can't decide to pick up a sword or use a dagger.

[Supertoster]

no dragons at all use armour in WoW why would the dracthyr need to either.

All humanoid dragon species use armor. Dracthyr are humanoids as well.
Actually, even non-humanoid dragons wear armor. Look at mounts.

[Katchii]

This is why I stand for "gameplay first - lore later". If lore says that Dracthyr are dragons and this creates limitations for players choice - then screw this lore, it is bad, rewrite it and create a new one.
If you want to make a draconic race - just make a regular race and allow players to choose whatever class they like.
If you want to embrace draconic theme and create more draconic abilities - just make a new class that transform you into a dragon in combat and allow players to choose whatever race they like.
And then and only then invent lore justifications why it works in that way. In first case just call them Drakonid or whatever. In second case just get rid of Dracthyr part and write lore that Evokers are a product of Deathwing experiment of turning mortals into dragons or whatever. It is not a huge change and only a small % players will care about it anyway, all they want is to have more options to play new toys.

In current form Dracthyr Evoker has too many red flags for many different people.
You want a new class but dislike being naked geckos? Screw you.
You want a new race but not interested in a new class? Screw you.
You like dragon form but hate this deviant art colorful mess of visage form? Screw you.
Or maybe you like this colorful mess but dislike geckoboys? Screw you.

To many unnecessary limitations for sake of what? Lore? Not worth it.
It is not a middle ground. It is a bottom of a pit.

Would allowing the Drac'thyr visage form to be any race of a given faction solve your issue?

Because the way the class is being created is based on the race itself having draconic powers and attributes. That includes the racials.

I don't disagree that the Drac'thry should be able to be other classes besides Evoker, but based on what was shown and their ideas behind it I'm not aligned with other races being able to be Evokers.

Limitations based on lore are fine (and I'd argue absolutely necessary), that's why you can't be an Orc playing on the Alliance. Boundaries are a requirement for any kind of choice to matter. This is just another one.

[Syegfryed]

You dont know what reality is

The reality is that Dracthyr is a race and evoker is a class.

why are you trying to distort things?

They are not suited to using armour or weapons because dragons dont have any need for them,

Nonsense, they are not dragons, they are dragonkin.

And they do need then, because they are not as big as powerful as real dragons.

[kenn9530]

All humanoid dragon species use armor. Dracthyr are humanoids as well.
Actually, even non-humanoid dragons wear armor. Look at mounts.

There are no real human dragonoid species, you do know those 4 legged things are not decended from dragons dont you. Dracthyr is the only one actually properly made from dragons.

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The reality is that Dracthyr is a race and evoker is a class.

why are you trying to distort things?



Nonsense, they are not dragons, they are dragonkin.

And they do need then, because they are not as big as powerful as real dragons.

No the reality is the race and evoker are one, you cant be one without the other so try and come back to reality.

They dont need armour for one they are not a melee class, they have dragon skin and that is more than enough for defence, they will have far better defences without armour than the average mage in cloth, it doesnt matter what they are they dont need armour plain and simple, it just gets in the way for animal forms/races.

[haediff]

Evoker is a dragon specific class because the abilities are their dragon powers. You can't teach someone to be a dragon, you either are or you aren't.

[Supertoster]

There are no human dragonoid species, you do know those 4 legged things are not decended from dragons dont you.

Don't care. Drakonids, dragonspawns and dragonmen - all of them are related to dragons, they have draconic features, they are all in Dragonkin category on wowpedia.

Also: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dracthyr
Dracthyr are not dragons, but they are dragonkin.

The dracthyr are an ancient race of humanoid dragonkin. They have the ability to wield the magic of all five primary dragonflights as evokers, and, like true dragons, shapeshift between a draconic form and a humanoid visage.[1] The dracthyr were created in the ancient past by the black Dragon Aspect Neltharion, who combined the essence of dragons with the adaptability of the mortal races to create a race of ideal soldiers

So there is literally no reason to limit their visage to just male belfs and female humans.

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Evoker is a dragon specific class because the abilities are their dragon powers. You can't teach someone to be a dragon, you either are or you aren't.

This is how all heroic classes work. They are not about skill, knowledge or training. They are about nature of character. Deathknight cannot be trained, they are resurrected. The same with DH, but with demonic infusion instead of resurrection.
Dracthyr are a result of combining of dragon essence with mortals.

[bruxx]

Are we seriously arguing about the lore behind the choice to not show armor on a playable race? At one point, you are just shitting on people's fun for the sake of shitting on people's fun. Who cares if the dragon scales would technically be enough to protect you? You can also wear armor for cultural reasons, and dragonspawns/drakonoids not technically being dragons does not change the fact that they have scales like any other, yet they still chose to wear armor.

Like, how does it hurt you people for Dracthyr players to get the choice to show their mog if they so wish?

[Supertoster]

Are we seriously arguing about the lore behind the choice to not show armor on a playable race? At one point, you are just shitting on people's fun for the sake of shitting on people's fun. Who cares if the dragon scales would technically be enough to protect you? You can also wear armor for cultural reasons, and dragonspawns/drakonoids not technically being dragons does not change the fact that they have scales like any other, yet they still chose to wear armor.

Like, how does it hurt you people for Dracthyr players to get the choice to show their mog if they so wish?

Some people just love making lore excuses for devs laziness.

[Aresk]

Correction, a dracthyr don't show armor in other form because blizzard sold the class, as a race, thats why it gets this messy and thats why you people keep comapring the RACE with another class, without evne realazying.

They jsut did something lazy, thats it, there is no reason for the dragon not use armor other than they nto bothering with it.

Mechagnomes still use your own armor, you can see it, and not some defautlt set pieces you can change in the barber shoip. so, yeah, not rly the same. Besides.


its rly weird to say blizzard being lazy as "being more unique", but sure. Don't wear the armor, other people want it.

But Blizzard said that the Dracthyr are showing armor in the dragon form within a limited number of slots. It is akin to the mechanome in that regard, though I don't recall offhand which slots are available for each.

And I'm not saying "being lazy is being more unique." I'm saying that not having to worry about reflecting all armor slots on all models opens the door for more varied models (e.g. naga can't wear boots, so we'd have zero chance of playable naga if boot transmogs were a requirement for playable creatures). Your claims of laziness are blatantly false; laziness is an implication of an unwillingness to work. The employees are still working, just not on this. You should be accusing them of frugality, as they're not willing to spend money/resources on the armor. There's a difference.

[kenn9530]

Don't care. Drakonids, dragonspawns and dragonmen - all of them are related to dragons, they have draconic features, they are all in Dragonkin category on wowpedia.

Also: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dracthyr
Dracthyr are not dragons, but they are dragonkin.

The dracthyr are an ancient race of humanoid dragonkin. They have the ability to wield the magic of all five primary dragonflights as evokers, and, like true dragons, shapeshift between a draconic form and a humanoid visage.[1] The dracthyr were created in the ancient past by the black Dragon Aspect Neltharion, who combined the essence of dragons with the adaptability of the mortal races to create a race of ideal soldiers

So there is literally no reason to limit their visage to just male belfs and female humans.

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This is how all heroic classes work. They are not about skill, knowledge or training. They are about nature of character. Deathknight cannot be trained, they are resurrected. The same with DH, but with demonic infusion instead of resurrection.
Dracthyr are a result of combining of dragon essence with mortals.

The only ones related to dragons are dracthyr everything else has no actual ties to being a dragon in the slightest.

There is no reason to have a visage form of anything else other than what they are.

The race and class are one, thats how they work, they are not made to be anything other than what they are. Dragons are also a little racist as they like to stick solely to thier own type.

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Some people just love making lore excuses for devs laziness.

Any some ppl like to think they actually know anything about a games development and what is actually good for it or not, creating a new class and race when there is no need for anymore is not laziness, and the devs are not the ones to decide what actually happens with the game.

[Supertoster]

Any some ppl like to think they actually know anything about a games development and what is actually good for it or not

Yes.

I love how some people fall into this authority appeal fallacy all the time.
"Devs know better" is not a fact and not an argument. It literally means nothing.

[Syegfryed]

But Blizzard said that the Dracthyr are showing armor in the dragon form within a limited number of slots. It is akin to the mechanome in that regard, though I don't recall offhand which slots are available for each.

They also said the armor will cahnge in the barber shop

there is no confirmation yet that its going to be YOUR armor showing up, they just said there is default set pieces, like DH that you change in barber shop

And I'm not saying "being lazy is being more unique." I'm saying that not having to worry about reflecting all armor slots on all models opens the door for more varied models (e.g. naga can't wear boots, so we'd have zero chance of playable naga if boot transmogs were a requirement for playable creatures). Your claims of laziness are blatantly false; laziness is an implication of an unwillingness to work. The employees are still working, just not on this. You should be accusing them of frugality, as they're not willing to spend money/resources on the armor. There's a difference.

"not having to Worry" is a weird way to say "they didn't bother, neither wanted to work on that".

And yes, it is unwlinness to work, its a blatantly lazy thing.

They were so damn lazy that they made Demon hunter 2.0 and sold as a race to not bother in making a proper dragon race.

They were so lazy that they come up with this BULLSHIT excuse that "they are the same thing" so they don't had to bother adding other classes to the race neither other races to the class.

They were so azy that they didn't even bother to make more than 2 specs either.

they also were lazy to not make another visage forms or unique ones, they just used blood elf model, again

their lore of being "failurres" but also perfect experiments hat mix all five dragonflights, - a feat that was previously impossible - locked awya from 10k years is also, lazy.

The whole thing is lazy, and its a shame people are defending this mediocricy, when we could have got something like MOP, a proper drakonid race with a proper dragon class.

[Skildar]

Do we know if unlike worgend, you go back to your visage form automatically outside of combat?
I'm pretty sur that you will be in visage form on your mount. If that's the case then you will see your character in armor most of the time.

I know it could be cool to havr all the options in the world but I'd rather have them spending time, effort and money on other developments.

[kenn9530]

snip

Its a simple fact that the devs and the company knows whats better than random poster complaining on MMO champ, nothing you have said is even remotely good for the game. The only thing that does really mean nothing is all your own opinions on what you feel is better for the game, all that really matters is what the devs/company actually does.

You are the one complaining about devs when its not up to them what path the game takes, dont insult the ppl doing the actual work to create the game just because you dont get what you want.

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snip

Just because you dont like something doesnt mean its lazy, they created a whole new flying system, a larger continent than ever, a completely new class/race with a different playstyle and a whole lot more. It shows a serious lack of character when you insult the devs who do all the work on the game, you ignore all the effort they have done because you simply dont like something.

There is always too many classes so they are not required to make anymore, too many options screws other classes out of spots in dungeons/PvP and raid groups, it also makes it even harder to balance all the classes with even more specs, armour is just something dragons shouldnt wear as it gets in the way and makes no sense.

[Supertoster]

Its a simple fact that the devs and the company knows whats better than random poster complaining on MMO champ

Again, appeal to authority.
Sadly, but reality of past two expansions just proves that sometimes community knows way better than devs. There was tons of good feedback that could improve the game. Yet, it was ignored. And only much later they have listened to this feedback, but it was too late, when damage to the game was already done.

nothing you have said is even remotely good for the game.

Having more options to make the major selling point of expansions to appeal to broader audience - is not good for the game? Sorry, but you are delusional and ignorant.

dont insult the ppl doing the actual work to create the game just because you dont get what you want.

There was not a single insult in the entire thread. Sorry, white knight, there is no one to protect.